How do you react to this idea?

heikediguoren · Post by **heikediguoren** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:36 pm

I've come several times before: 01/02/04.

I have given various gifts at previous iterations of the festival. A few psychologically provocative toys here and there, the odd bottle of water, my labor, my performing arts. But I want to do something more intriguing, more original this year.

I want to bring into existence homemade BLACK POWDER, using the charcoal that I find in dead fires from camp to camp, as well as materials that I've carried with me from beyond the gate's confines. Once made, I wish to give small batches this marvelously combustive thing to participants who will play responsibly with it.

I have made and safely used this substance. I understand that regulations surround the use of explosives at this event. I hope that by describing my intent here and observing your response, I can decide if this gift will bring happiness to those who come in contact with it.

EB · Post by EB » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:56 pm

Bad idea.

Might I suggest small bite-sized Snickers instead? Everybody loves those!

phil · Post by **phil** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Here's how I see it. No problem from my very humble point of view in giving black powder to people you deem worthy. Let them flash it - I figure most people will put a pile somewhere and light it. No biggy. I've unraveled firecrackers and done it many a time.

However, my fear is that the cops will have hissy fits all over the place, come roaring up in cruisers spewing dust and highbeams, people will object to them doing the testosterone thing on the poor soul they've caught, they'll call in back up and claim a riot, the lighter of the flash will be cuffed and a check will be run for outstanding warrants, records, and so on. A ticket will be issued for an unauthorized burn. This happened to someone I know; he had an unpaid ticket in Nevada and was taken off to jail in some godforsaken town, a collection was taken up and someone dispatched to bail him out, which took overnight. In addition to the ticket for lighting a fire on the ex-Man's burn mat Sunday night.

I think it's a neat idea to make black powder from the charcoal of burns at the event. I have no fear that any harm would come from your gift - other than the cops coming down on people caught with the gift.

I'd suggest that you go with that idea, but in a different direction. You would need authorization from whatever powers control such things (BMOrg plus cops), and they may want a pyro license. If you don't have one, you might find a licensed pyro willing to stand by you. But making black powder on site from Burn charcoal strikes me well.

Just don't get arrested on a trumped up terrorist charge.

EspressoDude · Post by **EspressoDude** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:18 pm

start here:

http://www.burningman.com/installations ... s_art.html

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:22 pm

I'd say go for it. Obviously giving it to only people who know what they are doing/into that sort of thing anyway. Don't do it publicly obviously, but in private, I see no problem.

heikediguoren · Post by **heikediguoren** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:45 pm

Thank you for your wise words thus far. Acting upon them, I'll surely get approval from the gathering's official fire safety staff before conducting operations.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:51 pm

I'll surely get approval from the gathering's official fire safety staff before conducting operations.

Fine; ruin all the fun!

sputnik · Post by **sputnik** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:08 pm

You might as well pass the stuff out on the street if you do that.

heikediguoren · Post by **heikediguoren** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:11 pm

[quote="MikeVDS"]
Fine; ruin all the fun! :evil:[/quote]

You and I have a similar destination but different origins. I must pass through prudence to meet you in heroism.

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:26 pm

At least I'll know who to take really seriously when I hear, "Fire in the hole!"

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:15 am

I'm getting that "I really want some of that" feeling.
It's a great idea.

Rocket75377 · Post by **Rocket75377** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:41 am

heikediguoren wrote:
I want to bring into existence homemade BLACK POWDER.

Homemade black powder, in my experience, is generally not as potent or as volatile as the factory-made stuff. I've played with my share of chemical mixtures (and am lucky to have my face). But that's not the point.

I think, from a purely personal perspective, that it would be really cool to see some Science In Action on the playa. I can see running into some legal roadblocks, though.

A bunch of sulfur might be a good thing to have around. Never know when a huge bag of sulfur is going to come in handy. And the Saltpeter jokes write themselves...

The Hosh · Post by **The Hosh** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:30 am

Hey, I've got a similar idea! Potentially more "explosive" though more inline with the environmental theme...

I was thinking about collecting 200,000 live mosquitos and then releasing them on the playa, preferably around Camp Apokiliptika...

Post by **trilobyte** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:39 am

My reaction is a question.

What would you do or how would you feel if somebody actually got hurt by something you gifted?

Regardless of whether you gave it to someone responsible, or the recipient lied to get their hands on the stuff, or you made an error in judgment, or any number of other things happened. Nevermind the legality of it (though that's an issue), and nevermind the liability issues (despite the printing on the back of the ticket, you'd most certainly be sued for damages by any litigous victims). What if someone got hurt with it?

Ultimately, of course, it's your decision. You may want to consider an equally unique, yet safer type of gift.

Good luck sorting it out!

~Trilo~

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:46 am

How about some sparklers? Whee.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:00 am

Railroad torpedoes. Buwahahaha.

Did someone say boredom and sledgehammers?

Nick Collide · Post by **Nick Collide** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:22 am

The Hosh wrote:Hey, I've got a similar idea! Potentially more "explosive" though more inline with the environmental theme...

I was thinking about collecting 200,000 live mosquitos and then releasing them on the playa, preferably around Camp Apokiliptika...

Careful, Hosh...you could end up in the Apok Hall of Fame: As we have been referred to as coldhearted, bloodless fiends (just ask the Kiwis) the mosquitoes would soon wander off in search of a warm lunch - spreading DOOM in every direction

If, on the other hand, you are offering to bring the materials to make 200,000 drinks to serve at the B(o)(o)by Bar; why, you would be known as a hero to the people once again

Either way, you would be Doomed...

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:38 pm

What if someone got hurt with it?

Then they were being stupid. You can make the same argument for companies who sell knives, which depending on the quantity of powder he hands out could be much more dangerous. How about automobiles?

If he hands out pipe bombs, I may have to agree that it's not a good idea, but small quantities of black powder are safer than many things out there.

phil · Post by **phil** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:51 pm

> I must pass through prudence to meet you in heroism.

Do that in the portapotty, okay, hon?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:14 pm

heikediguoren wrote:I want to bring into existence homemade BLACK POWDER, using the charcoal that I find in dead fires from camp to camp, as well as materials that I've carried with me from beyond the gate's confines. Once made, I wish to give small batches this marvelously combustive thing to participants who will play responsibly with it.

I think it's one of the best and worst camp proposals I've heard in a while. I both really want to visit it to get some for myself and hope that it doesn't happen because it could maim people.

Dustdevil · Post by **Dustdevil** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:38 pm

When you manufacture black powder you fall under the jurisdiction of the ATF, BP being a 1.3G explosive. You must have a mfg lic. and the proper storage. You must also track who it goes to and keep those records for three years. The ATF has gotten very touchy about these matters in the last few years. The BLM regs specifically deny even the BM org. from using 1.3G materials for display on the Playa. From a legal stand point you will find yourself in a really bad position. The Org certainly would not allow this, the person who holds the lic to shoot fireworks on the Playa would not allow this. There is no way to do it within the confines of the regs. I can understand why you would want to share this. It's fun! I would take a long hard look at the risk-to-reward factor before you consider this any further.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Not to worry.. Bush's brown shirts have there eye on this guys poop shute.. They homed in the second he hit send for this thread..

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:48 pm

You could say a similar thing about drugs, but they still go around.

skygod · Post by **skygod** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:21 pm

Illicit drugs and Homemade Black Powder is the old Burning Man.
The new Burning Man may be much more dangerous.

Das Bus · Post by **Das Bus** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:43 pm

You could put an eye out with that!

robotland · Post by **robotland** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:22 am

If I remember correctly, you can bring down a fully grown adult Gorn with that stuff if you use it to shoot a big eggshaped diamond out of a bamboo tube.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:33 am

robotland wrote:If I remember correctly, you can bring down a fully grown adult Gorn with that stuff if you use it to shoot a big eggshaped diamond out of a bamboo tube.

\/
How many fully "armed/thumbed" oven mitt does it take to kill a adult gom¿ When all you need is a eggshaped diamond powered by some home made black powder..

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:22 am

Actually black powder alone isn't that dangerous; the most people would get from it is a "WHOOMP!" if that.

Unless they're bright enough to confine it before they light it off.

EB · Post by EB » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:36 pm

I don't know how any of the veterans in this thread could think it could be even a REMOTELY good idea for somebody to gift black powder on the playa...

MikeVDS · Post by **MikeVDS** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:43 pm

I don't know how any of the veterans in this thread could think it could be even a REMOTELY good idea for somebody to gift black powder on the playa...

Have you ever played with black powder?

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