How high?

wynturmute · Post by **wynturmute** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:35 pm

Can anyone tell me the elevation at black rock city. I'm concerned because it might be drastically different from where I live (995 feet) and I need to know if it will be an issue for me.

phil · Post by **phil** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:49 pm

It's about 4,000 feet. The elevation where I live is 8 feet.

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:50 pm

wynturmute wrote:Can anyone tell me the elevation at black rock city. I'm concerned because it might be drastically different from where I live (995 feet) and I need to know if it will be an issue for me.

Yes you might. I do the first two days with the high elevation and keeping up hydration.

but then it passes for me and then I do fine.

Token · Post by **Token** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:25 pm

'Tis why I like to spend the night at one of them High Sierra passes at 10K plus, then drive down to the Playa.

...or one could bring some medical grade oxygen ...

wynturmute · Post by **wynturmute** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:23 pm

Thanks everybody I'll develop my plans accordingly.

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:36 pm

It really does take some time to acclimate and it makes a difference if you can do it before the thing starts.

Post by **mdmf007** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:32 pm

hows that for service.

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:40 pm

It's the elevation, more than than the heat, that gets to me. Living at about 13' now I'm used to much more O2 in the air. Even after days on playa I just don't have the lung power that I do at home....

Ron

Digital-Dragonfly · Post by **Digital-Dragonfly** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:04 am

Ok, the Dr. has signed off on my going (good for him- I've had my ticket for months). He just suggests that it will take several days to adapt to the elevation/air issues. Knowing this, I have a full week before BRC opens that I can be in the area. Where is it ok to camp & just layback and get used to the playa. I want to sit in the shade (I'll be bringing my own) and read, paint, work on my laptop projects. I understand the playa is closed around BRC before event, but what about the far north end? Up off "Soldier Meadows Rd"? or where would you suggest...?

Thanks...

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:24 am

I would suggest Pyramid Lake.
Be sure to get your camping permit.

Anywhere at least as high will work.
If there are any parks or mountain areas you want to see, that's a good time.
Once I had trouble adapting to Denver, but it must have been other factors like allergies involved.
The North Rim of the Grand Canyon is high and gorgeous with clean air.
There is a nice lodge there too.
I'm sure you need reservations for that.
Depending on where you're coming from, you may have a lot of choices.

Do you want to get used to the playa?
I don't know if that even happens.

swingle12 · Post by **swingle12** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:41 am

Tahoe is only a couple of hours to the west of the Black Rock. You could spend your week there at one of the many great campgrounds and be at an even higher elevation. I just stayed at Blackwood Canyon on the west side of the lake. It's beautiful, just bring your mosquito repellent! There are also several nice reservoirs east of Tahoe, Boca and Stampede both have campgrounds are a little less crowded.

StevenGoodman · Post by **StevenGoodman** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:51 am

There are tons of places to camp within a few hours.

You can camp on the playa, just not near where Burning Man is. Enter at the 12 mile entrance and head north 10 or so miles. Also, the hot springs in the area are closed during this time.

There are nice campgrounds at the top of Hwy 88 (I think I have the right road). Also Tahoe National Forest. Etc,

And there are reservoirs east of Reno along I-80.

Or get a cheap casino room in Reno for a few days!

Martini Steve

wynturmute · Post by **wynturmute** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:55 pm

All of these things considered, I live in Topeka Kansas and I'm traveling by car. When should I leave in order to arrive at an acclimation point and be ready for day one at BRC?

Post by **Eric** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:03 pm

wynturmute wrote:When should I leave in order to arrive at an acclimation point and be ready for day one at BRC?

I live in SF- sea level, basically. As long as I start drinking more water about a week before the event, and once on the road to BRC I make sure to drink it almost as much as I would in the city, I don't have any problems. It seems to gets my body ready- I adjust fairly easily the first day.

Just be aware of your body, and if you feel "incorrect"- however that may be- make sure to let yourself rest & rehydrate.

Free2B · Post by **Free2B** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:44 pm

Nobody mentioned Chlrophyll here, I heard of it for the 1st time somwhere on eplaya & looked it up, found this: http://www.taosherb.com/altitudesickness.html So is it a bad idea? I have no idea how I'll react, I've never traveled too far. ( Coming from NY)

Token · Post by **Token** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:13 pm

Folks, we are talking less than 4000 feet here. Most people are not bothered by this.

Airplanes are pressurized to 10000 foot level pressure. Do you get sick flying?

I think that allot of people think they are experiencing altitude sickness but are not.

It is called dehydration; on a playa made from a desiccant and typical humidity below 10% the odds of a mere 4000 feet making any difference is rather slim. Getting fluids sapped out of your body right quick as you exit your climate controlled car ... pretty good chance this will happen and take a few days to get used to.

Digital-Dragonfly · Post by **Digital-Dragonfly** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:43 pm

Thanks Steve...That was the info I was looking for. Should make my burn (& life) much easier.

Thanks again.

yes, there can be more than just dehydration issues based on elevation

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:20 am

Few of us ride a bike for miles in an aircraft cabin.
What acclimation is, is the body making more red blood cells to compensate for the altitude.
Long term is more involved.
It doesn't happen in a day or two.
One to two weeks is what I have been told.
That is with adequate rest and fluids.
Acclimation and altitude sickness are not the same thing.
Pushing yourself during acclimation will get you there though.
Some people tolerate much more oxygen deprivation than others.
It is not acclimation to tolerate it.

The Olympic Center advises me that fluids are crucial.
They advise me that caffeine is a big factor due to the effect on fluids.
The tell me to stop all caffeine three days before I go to altitude and don't resume until acclimated or best when I return to base camp.
They also tell me not to run more than a half mile my first day at 6000 feet. (Like that was really a risk my first day)

Your oxygen intake decreases when you sleep.
When you don't sleep, you fall apart.
This is how you can get sick.
Most people will just feel really bad when they push it on playa.
But that's not what we're there for.

Some people think a decompression chamber can start the process.
There is much debate about this.
I have acclimated fully to 8000 feet in on and off stages in high spots, so it is possible.
But it probably needs days to do it, so decompression chambers as used by some climbers probably aren't working.
Climbers in Nepal used to take weeks getting acclimated and many deaths are blamed on failure to follow known practices now.

if anyone has more information in this area, I am very interested.

An oxygen tank with a nebulizer at a very low oxygen rate used for sleeping probably helps in tolerating the acclimation period.
All it takes to get a doctor to sign off on this is to convince them you won't overuse the oxygen and hurt yourself.
Cost is reasonable.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:00 am

gyre-
how do you get your shirt over your head?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:19 am

What?!

Post by **AntiM** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:21 am

I live right around the same altitude, at about the same humidity, or lack thereof. I do have a few low land friends who get nose bleeds from the dry air and complain of headaches when they visit. Dehydration or altitude intolerance? Either way, take care of yourself.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:21 am

gyre wrote:What?!

you know? since your brain is so damn big.
you know, like, about everything.

...in jest. with love brotha.

Digital-Dragonfly · Post by **Digital-Dragonfly** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:37 am

Since he was wrong about the elevation, the rest & relaxing and acclimatizing.
And its all really just a issue of dehydration...

That means my Dr. is probably wrong about my heart condition too, right...?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:56 am

thirt33n wrote:
gyre wrote:What?!
you know? since your brain is so damn big.
you know, like, about everything.

...in jest. with love brotha.

You're cute too.

Sheesh.
just trying to help.

It's something I've researched before, though without much real success.
I think military in each country knows a lot, but they don't talk much.
There is some research to find out who will get sick acclimating.
But I haven't seen results published.
I think this is considered tactically useful info.

Some tests with internal temperature at cold high altitude indicates that a slight drop in temperature indicates imminent failure of the climber as much as days before it would be obvious to the climber.

I have tried to find out specifically how to improve acclimation, but when I find any info, it is usually a reference to a book I can't locate.
The advice about caffeine is the most useful and they didn't have anything more specific than avoiding caffeine and not pushing too hard at first.

I like climbing and I always wanted to summit everest.
Now I just want to go to base camp and enjoy it.
Nothing to prove there, I guess.
Few people find 30000 feet fun, it seems.
I asked the last climber I met about this.
He said no.
He said it was fun to have done it, but not doing it.
He was part of the climb with disabled climbers, one blind, I think.

I'm curious about just about everything and I can't stop watching dockos.
You pick up a few things here and there.
Some times I can even remember it when I need it.

Last night after we set off the cannon, we were up till four digging into info about electric drive and for the contraption, the pipefitters and steam fitters handbook.
In the back is a chapter with the most intriguing title- Useful Information.
Just try to not read that.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:51 am

Digital-Dragonfly wrote:Since he was wrong about the elevation, the rest & relaxing and acclimatizing.
And its all really just a issue of dehydration...

That means my Dr. is probably wrong about my heart condition too, right...?

I'm not sure who's "wrong".
Sounds like everyone has pretty good points and gyre seems to back his up in a very explained fashion.

...Doctors are MANY times "wrong", as we all know. Two views can be totally conflicting yet both partially right. blah blah frikkin' blah....

you know you and that's good...climatize yourself however you like.

I'd say, Dragonfly, that after a few days climatizing, you should voulenteer one shift a day at Greeters for 'collation' before the event starts. You could get in a little early(if you schedule 1 shift a day until the gate opens) and set up you camp all leisurely like, work a four hour shift each day putting the greeter package together(simple physically easy work) and kinda kill two or three birds with one stone.

I'll be settin' up greeter structures early so if you do say hey to me...

Crux

Teo del Fuego · Post by **Teo del Fuego** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:09 am

elevation gets to me too. I live at 5,300 feet and spend my weekends riding my bike at 9,000 feet, so the extra air pressure on the Playa really slows me down, man!

bullshitting

Asian people are, for some reason, much more prone to elevation and altitude sickness than others. This isn't just anectdotal, I've read that in climbing guides.

thirt33n · Post by **thirt33n** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:14 am

Teo del Fuego wrote:elevation gets to me too. I live at 5,300 feet and spend my weekends riding my bike at 9,000 feet, so the extra air pressure on the Playa really slows me down, man!

bullshitting

Asian people are, for some reason, much more prone to elevation and altitude sickness than others. This isn't just anectdotal, I've read that in climbing guides.

...hmm....are they better for scuba?

gyre · Post by **gyre** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:11 pm

I'm guessing that doesn't include Sherpas and other himalayans?
I never heard that before.

lonestoner916 · Post by **lonestoner916** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:28 pm

thirt33n wrote:
Digital-Dragonfly wrote:Since he was wrong about the elevation, the rest & relaxing and acclimatizing.
And its all really just a issue of dehydration...

That means my Dr. is probably wrong about my heart condition too, right...?

I'll be settin' up greeter structures early so if you do say hey to me...

I'm going early too, I'll look you up!

MozyBonz · Post by **MozyBonz** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:34 pm

Just like with Bob when gyre talks I listen.

My problem with 4000 feet for me is. I am short of breath for a couple days but then I seem to breath better. But I also have problems with hydration so the second day it hits me hard. Bump (my wife ) had to go to med tent in 06. She had bad hydration problems. She had only been drinking water and wasn't replacing minerals she was losing.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia wrote:Altitude sickness

Jump to: navigation, search
Altitude sickness
Classification and external resources
ICD-10 T70.2
ICD-9 E902.0
DiseasesDB 8375 29615
eMedicine med/3225
MeSH D000532

Altitude sickness, also known as acute mountain sickness (AMS), altitude illness, or soroche, is a pathological condition that is caused by acute exposure to low air pressure (usually outdoors at high altitudes). It commonly occurs above 2,400 metres (approximately 8,000 feet).[1] Acute mountain sickness can progress to high altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) or high altitude cerebral edema (HACE).[2]

Altitude sickness is caused by reduced partial pressure of oxygen. The percentage of oxygen in air remains essentially constant with altitude at 21 percent, but the air pressure (and therefore the number of oxygen molecules) drops with altitude.[3] Altitude sickness usually does not affect persons traveling in aircraft because modern aircraft passenger compartments are pressurized.

A related condition,[citation needed] occurring only after prolonged exposure to high altitude, is chronic mountain sickness, also known as Monge's disease.

An unrelated condition, although often confused with altitude sickness, is dehydration, due to the higher rate of water vapor lost from the lungs at higher altitudes.

How high?

How high?

Re: How high?

Acclimatizing

Thanks Steve...

Thanks for setting me stright...

Re: Thanks for setting me stright...

Re: Thanks for setting me stright...