Skate floor repairs..

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TomServo
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Skate floor repairs..

Post by TomServo » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:06 am

Our camp creates a roller skating floor, using a layer of plywood and a top layer of masonite. Each panel is secured to and through the plywood with 1 1/2 inch woodscrews. Throughout the event, we keep a careful eye on exposed screws. For the most part, they hold.but older screwholes let go of the screws after a while..
Any suggestions for keeping these little fuckers in place? Almost never use an existing hole in the plywood, so their is some anchor, but the masonite's thin and wears through. Haven't had a screw injury in the few years I've been their..and we don't want any in the future. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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BitterDan
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Post by BitterDan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:11 am

Are the screws countersunk?
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TomServo
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Post by TomServo » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:12 am

BitterDan wrote:Are the screws countersunk?



yes they are..flat head of the screw is flush with the floor
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by BitterDan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:15 am

Yeah, that's what I figured. Hmm, other than gluing the masonite down, i can't think of anything.
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TomServo
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Post by TomServo » Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:24 am

It's never been a problem..injuries..and such, but is always a concern. Have drills ready and waiting, the whole week for repairs. Would suck to have someone take a 4am skate and fuck themselves up while were all asleep. We thought about glue..maybe a LocTite brand..for temporary repairs.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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oneeyeddick
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Post by oneeyeddick » Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:29 am

Use liquid nails like a thread sealant.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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TomServo
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Post by TomServo » Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:29 am

oneeyeddick wrote:Use liquid nails like a thread sealant.


thinking that too..got a bottle of gorilla glue...expands as it dries.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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sputnik
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Post by sputnik » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:59 am

Get a bunch of toothpicks and put one in the holes before you put the screw in, it'll tighten it up.
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Bob
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Post by Bob » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:53 am

The screws made for cement board might hold better.
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MozyBonz
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Post by MozyBonz » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:10 am

Yes all great advice I would do all three.


Instructions for using Gorilla Glue
1. Prepare your Surface
• Clean all surfaces and remove any dust, oil or other impurities. Use a solvent if necessary. Allow solvent to evaporate completely before applying glue.
• Make sure the pieces are tight fitting.
• Sand smooth surfaces or where there is a high oil/moisture content (e.g. in some woods, metals and plastics). The glue needs something to adhere to.
2. Dampen One Surface with Water
• Spray or use a damp cloth to moisten one surface. Do not saturate.
• Let the moisture distribute before applying the glue.
• Moisture does not speed up the curing process, but it allows for a chemical reaction to take place.

3. Apply the Glue
• Spread a thin layer of the glue onto the other surface.
• Spread the glue using a disposable brush or with gloves.
• Remember, about half an ounce of the glue will cover a square foot. Do not over apply.
• The glue will stain hands and ruin clothing. Wear gloves and protective clothing.
4. Clamp the Pieces Together
• You must clamp the pieces together. If you don't have a clamp, apply heavy pressure.
• The glue will foam about 3 to 4 times. Clamping is needed to keep the pieces together.
• Clamping pressure must be distributed evenly over the glue line area.
• Clamping time is best at 68° F.
• Clamp for 3 to 4 hours and do not disturb the gluing items during this time.
• Leave the glued surfaces for about 24 hours for best results.
• Generally, the clamping time has expired when the foam pressed out from the glue line feels dry and somewhat crisp.
• Foam in a glue line has no structural strength whatsoever and must not be considered as a gap filler.
5. Curing
• The glue joint should be 90% cured within 4 hours, but for best results, leave for 24 hours.
• The maximum water resistance of the glue line occurs after 5 to 7 days at 68° F.


Toothpicks to fill the void use the hard round ones. Not the soft flat ones

Cement Board Screws. ... Unique design screws flush. 20% larger diameter head holds better


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Post by theCryptofishist » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:25 am

That last pic is, of course, Mozy laying down a temporary floor.
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Post by TomServo » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:08 pm

Used to lay down dance floors like that..each piece had slotted edges, and secured using an allen screws. That would be ideal!

Thanks for the tips! Im bringing all that out there.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by MozyBonz » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:17 pm

TomServo wrote:Used to lay down dance floors like that..each piece had slotted edges, and secured using an allen screws. That would be ideal!

Thanks for the tips! I'm bringing all that out there.

Cool!

I have 1000 sq yards of oak dance floor and 200 sq yards of black and white dance floor. they are 3x3 Sico tiles. You may see a small dance floor at my bar in the coming years. kinda a jazz Night club style setting.

oops I have said to much.....pay no attention to the person behind the curtain.

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Post by TomServo » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:46 pm

MozyBonz wrote:
TomServo wrote:Used to lay down dance floors like that..each piece had slotted edges, and secured using an allen screws. That would be ideal!

Thanks for the tips! I'm bringing all that out there.

Cool!

I have 1000 sq yards of oak dance floor and 200 sq yards of black and white dance floor. they are 3x3 Sico tiles. You may see a small dance floor at my bar in the coming years. kinda a jazz Night club style setting.

oops I have said to much.....pay no attention to the person behind the curtain.


About how much per square foot, are those dance floors? Requested a quote from one company, but have not heard back.

I'm sure it's not cheap, but neither is replacing old masonite every year.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by MozyBonz » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:02 pm

see your PM

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Bob
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Post by Bob » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:08 pm

News Bulletin -- masonite or MDO is cheaper than oak if you're bringing it to the fucking desert.
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Post by MozyBonz » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:12 pm

You got that shit right!

Oak: $144 per 3' x 3' Panel

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Post by mdmf007 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:38 pm

Is the plywood your only backing? sounds like there may not be enough material for the screws to bite into.

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Post by TomServo » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:53 pm

Bob wrote:News Bulletin -- masonite or MDO is cheaper than oak if you're bringing it to the fucking desert.


Oak panels last longer...and our floor stays at the ranch...
however, at 144 per panel, were sticking with masonite
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by Bounce530 » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:08 pm

talking completely out of my ass with no flooring experince, but did have a thought. Could you put the screws in under the floor? like a deck, that has no screw heads exposed. Just a thought.
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While we are brainstorming . . .

Post by ilmarinen » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:42 am

How about a few more radical solutions . . .

Not sure I understand your floor--is it just sheets of plywood, with the masonite on top? The panels of each layer are staggered I assume, relative to each other?

How thick is the plywood?

Now for the wacky ideas:
1. No screws! Go to industrial velcro to secure the top layer down. Yeah, probably not gonna work. It's a complete redesign idea.

2. Add a subframe between the plywood--like "sleepers" in a basement floor? Lay them out on a grid, use longer screws that penetrate down to the , say, 1x4 or 2x4 boards below. Very unlikely to pull up?

3 Rebuild the system in panels that have the masonite glued to the plywood with some sorta joint with adjacent panels that can be cinched tight. Can think of a variety of methods to do something like that. Making the panel-scale tongue-n-groove like joints to make a tight fit is the hard part.

4. Presume the systems that the flat-track Roller Derby girls use is pricey/complicated? Know they setup/tear-down on lots of surfaces. Damn, I'm totally not remembering the details from the time I helped tear down a track. IIRC, it was a set of 2x2 or 4x4 tongue & groove panels that lock. Commercial product of some sort.

Just having fun thinking about the problem out-loud, doubt any of those are feasiable for you (certainly not this year). However, one my problem solving approaches is to start at the extreme "ideal" design and pick it apart/trim it down to what is doable. If that makes sense.

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Re: While we are brainstorming . . .

Post by TomServo » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:15 am

ilmarinen wrote:How about a few more radical solutions . . .

Not sure I understand your floor--is it just sheets of plywood, with the masonite on top? The panels of each layer are staggered I assume, relative to each other?

How thick is the plywood?

Now for the wacky ideas:
1. No screws! Go to industrial velcro to secure the top layer down. Yeah, probably not gonna work. It's a complete redesign idea.

2. Add a subframe between the plywood--like "sleepers" in a basement floor? Lay them out on a grid, use longer screws that penetrate down to the , say, 1x4 or 2x4 boards below. Very unlikely to pull up?

3 Rebuild the system in panels that have the masonite glued to the plywood with some sorta joint with adjacent panels that can be cinched tight. Can think of a variety of methods to do something like that. Making the panel-scale tongue-n-groove like joints to make a tight fit is the hard part.

4. Presume the systems that the flat-track Roller Derby girls use is pricey/complicated? Know they setup/tear-down on lots of surfaces. Damn, I'm totally not remembering the details from the time I helped tear down a track. IIRC, it was a set of 2x2 or 4x4 tongue & groove panels that lock. Commercial product of some sort.

Just having fun thinking about the problem out-loud, doubt any of those are feasiable for you (certainly not this year). However, one my problem solving approaches is to start at the extreme "ideal" design and pick it apart/trim it down to what is doable. If that makes sense.

-B.
yeah, we lay down the plywood..then the masonite.. staggered. not sure of plywood thickness.. For the most part, our set up works well..but older pieces occasionally let go of screws.

talked earlier about the floor panels...in our case, would cost about $35,000+... Our floor is stored at the ranch, and we bring new material each year, so always have good pieces to work with. It's a constant concern that one screw may come up..and someone falls on it..

I like the velcro idea..but not sure if we could get the whole floor flush that way..and would be a massive redesign..

gonna bring some velcro strips anyways, to try it out.
anything worth doing is worth overdoing..

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Post by Lassen Forge » Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:12 pm

Wait.

Idea just hit me, don't know if it's even workable, but worth looking at.

Not wood screws, but machine screws. You mount and epoxy the nuts for the screws (with corresponding fender washers, all welded together) to the bottom of the plywood, and you use loctite to hold the screws in place. Guaranteed you won't have the screws pulling out of the plywood backing that way.

Of course, it's a *lot* of prep, like a full weekend... but it would work, I think...

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Post by Bob » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:08 pm

I'd imagine it would be a bit hard to line up epoxied nuts or tee-nuts on the back side w/ holes in the top esp. when the floor is already in place.

Having built stuff out there since '96, I know construction adhesive out of the tube works pretty well & lasts a few years, but probably isn't the thing to use if the top surface wears out easily, or the masonite is staggered wrt the plywood.

Are you using tempered masonite or untempered? 1/8 or 1/4? JPEGs?
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