Service Dog on the Playa?

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Traveller in Time » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:07 pm

Token wrote:
You can still bring a service chickens all you want.

Stroking a cock is blissful.


Fresh eggs, BBQ after the man burned. Why not bring them? The feathers perhaps :?
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm

Canoe wrote:Or should anyone bringing a service animal to an environment that is such a danger to the animal be charged with abuse?
Or who pays for the vet bills for playa induced issues?
Or who pays for the upkeep of the animal if it can no longer do its service duties?
Or who pays for a replacement service animal?

If I had a service animal on which I depended and for which I cared so much for, I sure wouldn't be subjecting it to the playa.


If you had a disability that required the services if a SERVICE DOG you'd either make sure it was well cared for while there (not a problem as you can provide a place of shelter/refuge as you do for yourself) or you simply would not attend the event.

The person with a disability who requires a SERVICE DOG is the person responsible for there dog. They or Medicaid will pay the vet bills and no the little old lady who's faking it can't get Medicaid to cover hers. It's quite a process

Some service dogs are rehomed when they an no longer provide services. Some are kept in the family. As to who pays for the replacement or the original, well either a person with a disability receives a grant, partial grant, or raises funds themselves.

As to your question about charging a person with a disability with abuse who brings a SERVICE ANIMAL to the playa? That's fucking ridiculous
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:03 pm

BBadger wrote:
Admiral Fukkit wrote:I know several people with service dogs.
Every single one of them is on complete bullshit pretenses.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "service dogs" are bullshit loop-holers.


Oh yes, like those toy dog breed "service dogs", wearing labeled vests purchased from Amazon.com. Official as those "FBI" shirts people like to wear. They're in service for, what, "stress relief"?

If these "service dogs" are ever allowed, they need to be formally registered and tagged in the same way that Mutant Vehicles are tagged. They must have insurance, must have no claims of liability on part of the event for what happens to the animals. The handlers would need to either diaper their pets or clean up their shit and piss, and that means scrubbing the playa for any residues.

Oh, and those dogs should require a full-priced ticket to attend. Watch those service dog users scatter like parents at a movie theater without matinee prices.

I'd also love to see law enforcement clamp down on untagged animal owners, just as I'd like to see them arrest more of those unregistered motor vehicles used on-playa for personal transport.

On another note, a friend of mine saw a cat at the event this year. Fuck those hippies who subject their pets to this event. I can only imagine the sheer terror of being an animal in some crazy, foreign city full of craziness, loud noises, heat, chaos, and dryness. It's bad enough that those hippies at the Rainbow Gathering bring their pets, only to have them get lost and needing to be shot after the hippie infestation has evacuated the area. We're better than this.


1. unless you know the person and what their disability is dont presume to know what type/size dog they need. Small dogs can be used for ptsd, blood sugar detections, mental health, seizure alerts

2. SERVICE DOGS (and mini horses) are allowed as per the ADA. As to a registry? Good luck with that as it is discriminatory

3. People with disabilities are more likely to clean up after their SERVICE ANIMAL than others because they already feel like they are living under a microscope (especially with all the judginess, as witnessed here) the waste merely needs to be cleaned up, playa doesnt have to be "scrubbed clean" What you dont think hippies and other animals dont shit and piss on it during and off season?

4. Would you charge a ticket price or any extra charge for that matter for someone's wheelchair, cane, c-pap, hearing aids?

Yes people game the system just like any other but what your proposing is discrimination and ludicris
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:06 pm

And really, how is a person with a disability who brings a SERVICE ANIMAL to the event affecting your burn? really?
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:12 pm

171/348 wrote:Gotta love someone who responds to a 12 year dead thread with, "You are all idiots..."
I'm reminded of that thing the pot said to the kettle.



might want to check your math, 5 year dead thread. posts dont die on eplaya unless a mod murders it. i mean they can be resurrected anytime unless its "silenced" by a mod...
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby GreyCoyote » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:43 pm

Sing it, Lucky!

People who dont need a service dog or havent seen the magic work probably wont get this. People who need a service dog or have seen them work, WILL. To a person with a disability that requires a service animal, that creature isnt just an "animal"... its a piece of medical equipment.

Yes. Medical equipment. Seriously.

My own experience has been with diabetes alert dogs. I recently watched a little whisp of a girl about 8 years old who had a golden retreiver service dog in school. The dog accompanied her to school every day and sat behind her desk or on her feet. The girl also had a CGM (constant glucose monitor) attached to her. It was about 30 minutes before lunch and the dog alerted: he nuzzled her and whined quietly. She looked at the CGM screen, saw a good number, and ignored him. The dog sat down and whimpered a bit, but obeyed. Five minutes later the dog starts pushing at her hip. Then a single quiet, worried bark. Again, the CGM was consulted and again the dog was dismissed. Finally a few minutes later the dog just WENT THE FUCK OFF. She pulls out her CGM and it says she is good, but the dog isnt having any of it. So she grabs her other meter and does a fingerstick: 34 mg/dl! (Normal is 80 to 120-ish). Most people would have been out cold at that level, but because she was sitting and had become accustomed to lows, she seemed overtly ok. But the CGM was wrong and that dog was right. And had the girl dismissed him yet again, I have absolutely no doubt that dog would have gently carried her ass to the nurse.

I tell you that story to tell you this: you need to leave the service animals the fuck alone. They dont need batteries, lose calibration, or forget to pack their meter. Instead they do what they have done for thousands of years: they monitor their environment and react as they have been trained. You and I dont get to second-guess them or their need. Looks can be deceiving because they come in all shapes and sizes and dont always have an obvious purpose. And if someone is "faking it", well, kharma has a way of making these things right.

So that yappy little fuzzball that is sitting on grannies lap may not look like much to you, but its likely more trained and evolved than we humans will ever be. Respect and tolerance are very clearly in order.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby BBadger » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:55 pm

Okay, I'm going to retract parts of what I posted above. It was a bit knee-jerkish. As long as the service animal is bona fide registered, and provided with a tag certifying that, cleaned up after, which should be assumed, then by all means permit them in the event and without additional ticketing fees.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:46 pm

I don't doubt at all that real service dogs are legit. I've just only ever known people who were gaming the system about it.
Last edited by Admiral Fukkit on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Token » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:55 pm

All fine points but we need to acknowledge that genuine service dogs remain RARE.

The sad truth of the "New Service Dogs" and "Emotional Support Dogs" - when the airlines started charging baggage fees for your wallet, pocket, jacket ... and slapped even bigger fees for pets ... the wannabe jet setters on budgets had to solve the problem of lugging their pug in a Trader Joe's recycled grocery bag on flights.

Two of my friends did exactly that so they can get their French bulldogs on flights and into restaurants.

I gave em an earful.

The service has been abused by the unscrupulous selfish fucks.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Canoe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:47 pm

lucky420 wrote:And really, how is a person with a disability who brings a SERVICE ANIMAL to the event affecting your burn? really?

Probably a lot less than the jerks that use the playa surface in place of a porta potty.

I don't see it affecting my Burn at all.
The issue I see is harm done to the animal due to the environment, all the factors of which have been listed above by various people.

And yes, if someone brings an animal to the playa, service or otherwise, harm to that animal is a foreseeable event, and they should be charged. And particularly so if a viable useful service animal had to be retired. I'd be quite willing to drive/fly halfway across the country to testify at such.

With the specifics for dogs, the accounts I've heard relate to harm to paws, nose, ears & lungs, due to the nature of the playa soil and contamination of playa soil. I'd think eyes could be at risk too, but I've not heard accounts of that.

And I've seen a lot of animals distressed by too loud or continued loud noise. A few permanently (at least as long as I knew them). I don't know how much that would be a factor, nor at the current size of BRC.
Last edited by Canoe on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Canoe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:55 pm

Token wrote:All fine points but we need to acknowledge that genuine service dogs remain RARE.
The sad truth of the "New Service Dogs" and "Emotional Support Dogs" - when the airlines started charging baggage fees for your wallet, pocket, jacket ... and slapped even bigger fees for pets ... the wannabe jet setters on budgets had to solve the problem of lugging their pug in a Trader Joe's recycled grocery bag on flights.
Two of my friends did exactly that so they can get their French bulldogs on flights and into restaurants.
I gave em an earful.
The service has been abused by the unscrupulous selfish fucks.

That's a separate issue to bringing animals to the playa.

And as with many disabilities, the disability that requires a service animal may not be a visible disability. Be vary careful about confronting people whom you don't know about. In fact, don't do it. You may "merely" cause them stress or distress, or you may aggravate their condition, or you could even cause a medical event.

As to jerks you know are abusing the system, go at 'em.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby AntiM » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:24 am

You can register your minor children at Burning Man, this option should be available for service dogs as well. That way if they do get separated from their owner, reuniting them may be simpler.
http://burningman.org/timeline/

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:11 am

BBadger wrote:Okay, I'm going to retract parts of what I posted above. It was a bit knee-jerkish. As long as the service animal is bona fide registered, and provided with a tag certifying that, cleaned up after, which should be assumed, then by all means permit them in the event and without additional ticketing fees.



Here's the rub; there is no "bona fide" registry for service animals. It is not required by the ADA. Sure there are plenty of "certificates or licenses" that a person can obtain from different sources. Under the ADA this is not required so a lot of people get these and claim " look,I have a certificate so dog is legit" when in fact it may not be a service dog at all. Nor can BM make a person register their service dog in order to attend the event.

Voluntarily registering your SERVICE ANIMAL could be offered by BM. There are only 2 questions a place of business may ask if a person with a service animal to determine legitimacy 1. Is this a service dog that is required for a dusability? 2. What service or task does it perform? That's it. You can't ask for medical documentation, certificates, licenses, etc.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby some seeing eye » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:06 am

ePlaya is back to its dusty self!

I'm aware of DPW dogs years ago, one was tented next to us. Earlier posts on this thread have a bunch-o pooch portraits.

Any registration of a service animal starts with the dogs@ email.

Just a wild ass guess, gate could turn away campers with non-registered animals and LEO could eject them if found later on playa. Then the only option would be to develop some case law after, ie sue, which is expensive.

Ramparts vet service? SPCA counterattacks? Personally I've seen faux SA and personal friends who were profoundly helped by a SA. The SA is recent for them. Before, they did not enjoy their BM experience and decided not to go back. A service person is always better than a service pet. The event is psychologically challenging for all. And personally, the ADA is an amazing piece of legislation where "reasonable" has been defined by the courts.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Token » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:20 pm

But can I bring my emotional support pot-belly pig?

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:20 pm

some seeing eye wrote:ePlaya is back to its dusty self!

I'm aware of DPW dogs years ago, one was tented next to us. Earlier posts on this thread have a bunch-o pooch portraits.

Any registration of a service animal starts with the dogs@ email.

Just a wild ass guess, gate could turn away campers with non-registered animals and LEO could eject them if found later on playa. Then the only option would be to develop some case law after, ie sue, which is expensive.

Ramparts vet service? SPCA counterattacks? Personally I've seen faux SA and personal friends who were profoundly helped by a SA. The SA is recent for them. Before, they did not enjoy their BM experience and decided not to go back. A service person is always better than a service pet. The event is psychologically challenging for all. And personally, the ADA is an amazing piece of legislation where "reasonable" has been defined by the courts.


BM would do well to inform gate of how to handle the service dog issue with the least amount in of harm
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby 171/348 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:23 pm

I had a friend who loved telling the story of him and his childhood friend parking in a handicapped spot at the mall. When they (Two late teen males) got out of the car and started walking into the mall, some guy started yelling at them for parking in a handicapped spot. His friend pulled off his prosthetic leg and started beating the guy with it.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Token » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:41 am

lucky420 wrote:
BM would do well to inform gate of how to handle the service dog issue with the least amount in of harm


I think they already did that by educating the public that the environment is extreme and self reliance is imperative.

At the end of the day it will be a call by the NV or Federal Agencies should it become an issue.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby TORD » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:50 pm

O HELL NO. Dogs have NO place at Burningman. Nor do horses cats ferrets or hamsters. If you really need a service animal I think you ought to just stay home. I also think children < 12 should pay full price.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:19 pm

I think YOU should stay home
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby GreyCoyote » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:20 pm

lucky420 wrote:I think YOU should stay home


+1000

Lucky420 and I rarely agree, but when we do, its on disability advocacy.

Stay accomodated, my friends....
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:43 pm

Smoooooooch ^^
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