Nudity an Nervousness

angrykittie25 · Post by **angrykittie25** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:45 pm

I have been looking at pictures of burning man as well as reading a lot of things about the event and it seems like a lot of people walk around naked. Is this true. Also a lot of the theme camps seem to be centered around sex and nudity, which is fine with me, but can someone enjoy watching without people getting offended. I am hoping that burning man will help me find myself once again but I don't know if I will be ready to jump into some of the more vulnerable activities. I guess I am just nervous about what I will find.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:00 pm

Public sexual activity is illegal--although it seems to be selectively enforced. (I.e. participants in homosexual activity are cited and arrested, heteros are not.) Ideally those going full out would do it in their tent or some other discreet location.
Keep an eye out for context. Does it seem like a public/semi-public set up or a more private one? Will you take a polite hint, or are you so enraptured with others' sexuality that they have to take a baseball bat to get you to leave?
Certainly public sexuality or nudity is NOT an open invitation to join in, although perhaps you can negociate something.
A little sensitivity and you'll have no real problems.

angrykittie25 · Post by **angrykittie25** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:18 pm

I don't mean that I will sit there and stare at people but if I am at a theme camp or something and I walk in to enjoy the atmosphere or just to see what is going on, and it is one of the more sexual camps, can you genrally hang out or do you have to be participating. I don't just want to watch people but I would like to experience as much of burning man as I can without getting into compromising positions

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:31 pm

Remember the difference between casual observation vs. staring.

People pick up on it real quick - especially the people being stared at.

Some people can get pretty in-your-face about it and others don't seem to mind. Guys seem to have the hardest time not staring and I've seen couples all but chase out clueless voyeurs who try every way they can to work their way nearer into a scene even after having been given multiple cues to stop.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 pm

I'm sure it depends on the other participents (and whether or not you give off "creep vibes.") There is no hard and fast rule for all situations. In some there is, i.e. the Canadian Beaver Eating Contest is not open to unescorted male viewers. I think most of us can tell if something is public or private. Camps will generally have public and private spaces--delineated by signs ("Closed" is a clue) where they are in relation to roads, etc. YOu can always ask. (Other camp members if you don't want to inturrupt.)
I'm sure that others on e-playa can elucidate, but this is a solid starting point.

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:59 pm

Yes, there are a lot of naked dudes, a fair number of topless chicks, and a few fully naked chicks. It's a bit shocking at first if you aren't used to seeing that in a non-sexual context, but for me that faded pretty quickly. It just wasn't a big deal. There's a lot of suggestive artwork as well. That also faded and I was able to view artwork as artwork. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that nobody else seemed to think it was a big deal either. It's not like some Girls Gone Wild video where people are flashing and everyone goes nuts. People are just going about their business and happen to be naked.

There is the occasional public demonstration of one sort or another, but rarely full on goin at it. If it's happening on the Esplanade with a big crowd of people watching, they obviously don't mind so there's no problem stopping and watching. If it's in a semi-private area, ask someone if it's ok to watch or join in. Don't stare unless you've been given permission to do so. Obviously, if something is happening in a fully zipped up tent they probably aren't expecting anyone to come in and watch. If you're hot you could be invited to do something but I haven't seen evidence of heavy pressure to do anything at all. Do whatever you feel comfortable with.

Nudity does not equal sex. This seems to be a big problem with people speculating about what goes on at the event based on pictures. Yes, there is a lot of nudity but that doesn't mean it's some big orgy. In fact, I would wager that if you took the same 30,000 people and had them attend parties every night fully clothed then went back to hotels at night there would be several times more sex going on. It's too hot during the day, too dirty, and there's too little privacy.

Otisserie · Post by **Otisserie** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:52 pm

I think I mentioned this in a thread before, but there's a lot less nudity at BM than people who haven't been there seem to think.

One day I did a random count and calculated about 20-25% of women went topless during the day (far fewer at night) and less than 10% of either sex went naked. That means the vast majority of people at BM have clothes on. Not a lot of clothes, but clothes nonetheless.

Then there was the guy who wore a full business suit every day.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:59 pm

I agree. It's not as much as you would be led to believe by looking at photos and hearing stories. There is PLENTY of other stuff going on other than SexCamptm. In the several years that I have been there I have only once been in a semi public space where people were fully gettin it on. I would say sex themed camps are a small minority.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:35 am

Go back and look for pictures of crowds, you will notice that the vast majority have clothes of some sort on. On the other hand if you want to run around naked don't expect to get a whole lot of attention either. Someone said 'context' and that is really true. An example, at one point I was watching some girls pole dancing and the crowd was hooting and clapping, at the same time there were girls naked or nearly so in the crowd that no one was paying any particular attention to.

Sex, expect to be hit on. There are about two men for every one female at Burning Man and this is sexually charged atmosphere. If your are not interested simply say so and in 99.9% of the cases they will go away or change the subject. If they continue bothering you simply make it clear to the world at large that this person is bothering you and within seconds you will have backup.

Sexual context, if people are putting on a show, well that's what it is, kick back and watch, on the other hand if you are wandering around and happen on folks going at it say "Oh, sorry" their response will tell you what to do. There may be some ambiguous situations, take your hint from the others around you. I have been in some chill domes where if the couple were not going at it they were coming close but they were not under the lights and they were not going out of their way to attract attention so I ignored it. Example, I was in a chill dome just zooing out and a couple came in plopped down across and about ten feet from me and started an excellent makeout session; I was there first and enjoyed the show, had they been there first I would have found another place to sit.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 8:29 am

I'm at BM as a example. It's what your going to look like in a few years. There is nothing uglier than an old man in the buff.

Chai Guy · Post by **Chai Guy** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:25 am

There is nothing uglier than an old man in the buff

I beg to differ, how about one wearing a t-shirt and no pants?

Pants cannon anyone?

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:58 am

Chai Guy wrote:
There is nothing uglier than an old man in the buff

I beg to differ, how about one wearing a t-shirt and no pants?

Pants cannon anyone?

/
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:19 pm

Beeing a representative from the Pantzooka Patrol I gaurentee that will will inforce pants on all shirtwearing pantless men. We like the pantless females and invite them to our camp. Fully naked people are welcome to our camp, but the fashion dont of the shirt wearing pantless will be met with the barrel end of the PANTZOOKA. Those wishing to become part of the Pantzooka Patroll please email us for details.

Be on the lookout for Pantzooka Patrol we show NO mercy!

PantzookaHQ · Post by **PantzookaHQ** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:23 pm

HQ concurs with that statement.

PurpleKoosh · Post by **PurpleKoosh** » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:38 pm

unjonharley wrote:I'm at BM as a example. It's what your going to look like in a few years. There is nothing uglier than an old man in the buff.

If only the fellow camped across the street from me had understood this....

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:59 am

So if you DO decide to go without those clothes, make sure you're pretty and/or female. Others must be ashamed of their skin and hide it at all times.

Maybe let's all take a quick peak inside our own heads for a minute. Ever wonder how all that stuff got there?

Sheesh.

Dr. Pyro · Post by **Dr. Pyro** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:55 am

Booker, I was wondering when you (or R-Pod or blyslv or the rest of the rogue's gallery) were going to chime into this discussion.

The Doc

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 3:31 pm

Be on the lookout for Pantzooka Patrol we show NO mercy!

Well, be prepared to fight *me* as I will be forcibly removing the pants from any guy who looks like he needs to be free of his pants, regardless of age or shape.

Free those penises! Wear just a tee-shirt! If it makes you fuckin happy, do it and fuck these fashion nazis up the ass. Fuck all y'all that want to tell me what's beatiful, or aesthetically pleasing. Fuck all y'all that want to repress someone's free expression, freedom of dress, freedom of whatever.

There's alot of squealing around here about the spirit of burningman and what is and is not acceptable within that milieu. So... is it in that hallowed, sacred spirit to go around telling people what they may and may not wear? Is it in that spirit to embarass and shame people into it by calling 'em unattractive and making sure they they think no one wants to see 'em?

Hey guys! Here's one woman that will smile at every guy wearing a shirt and no pants she sees next burn. So help me Jeebus.

Markov Chaney · Post by **Markov Chaney** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:35 pm

Hell, I plan on committing that particular fashion faux pas just to get a smile from you Lydia.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 6:33 pm

Hell, baby, you'll get that smile *whatever* you're wearing.

but if you're wearing No Pants you'll get a hug.

I'm creating a Shirt No Pants Revolution. I do realize of course that in order to lead effectively I'll have to be wearing the official uniform of... you guessed it, a Shirt and No Pants. There will have to be a parade (can't have a good revolution without a parade) and if there are enough of us, in force, we'll have those Pants Cannon wussies cowering at the sight of our genetalia peeking out from underneath our shirts.

VIVA NO PANTS!

III · Post by **III** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 11:05 pm

>>If only the fellow camped across the street from me had understood this

he probably did. just like he probably didn't give a fuck all about offending your delicate mainstream sensibilities.

p.s. crush on lydia.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:01 am

Well for what it's worth I'm glad Ms. Lydia didn't stop posting on eplaya on the account of me.
How can anyone not crush her.
Plus I can guarantee that If I were to go pant less or clothesless, she would be the first to put pants back on me and a shirt similar to what another burner made that would say somthing like this;

"Thank God he's keeping his clothes on."

I kid you not.

Nice seeing your posts.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:22 am

Why, do you sunburn easily? Cause that is the only reason I'd try and dress someone out there. Period.

You know who I want wearing clothes out there? People who wanna wear clothes. Fat? Flaunt it. Old? So what, we *all* get there someday. And nobody, and I mean no single person on this earth should be told they are too unlovely to show their skin. Everyone should have a right to be their full out selves on the playa and showing whatever bits 'o flesh they wanna.

Corporate america has a dress code. Catholic schools have a dress code. I sure as hell would hate for one to be enforced, even by peer pressure, on the playa.

Therefore, Admiral Antipants will be patrolling, getting as many people out of their pants as she possibly can. You'll know her - she'll be wearing a tee-shirt that says "Fear me, I wear No Pants" "No Pants, No Shame" or simply "Viva No Pants!"

If you want to be a recruit in the revolution the uniform is really easy to come by...

que.f.o. · Post by **que.f.o.** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:09 am

Right on Lydia! No fashion police at Burning Man. I'll be looking for your gorgeous self, waiting for my hug. If I have a penis gourd does it still count?

Dork · Post by **Dork** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 9:42 am

Why, do you sunburn easily? Cause that is the only reason I'd try and dress someone out there.

I stopped going shirtless during the day because everyone THOUGHT I was easily sunburned. Every few minutes someone would come up to me with a frightenned look on their face and try to get me to put on suntan lotion or get into the shade. I think they believed I would spontaneously combust at any moment.

Yes, I am extremely white. Yes, I have put on sunscreen. No, I do not burn easily. I have freakish skin that does not burn OR tan.

Then again, I suppose I could use my paleness to scam others out of their shirts. "Excuse me, miss, I'm trapped far from my camp without a shirt to protect my skin. Could I possibly borrow yours?"

All shirts would be returned later on, of course.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:15 pm

It would be better to squirt some lotion into there hands and have them apply it.

desertmac · Post by **desertmac** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:10 pm

Thank you Lydia Love!!!
I will be a newbie to BM this year, so I've been reading everything I can about it on different sites. I clicked on this thread and was horrified when I came to gothalot's and other's posts. I kept thinking as I was reading them, "This is the first set of posts or discussions I've seen that tells me BM is NOT what I have been thinking it was. I had been thinking that BM was about exactly what you said it was in your post, so I was dissapointed almost to the point of cancelling going when I saw the attitudes of these people: ie: you are welcome to be nude if you're a female, or really hot looking etc..."
I really hadn't expected to see this kind of attitude from BRC citizens, and it saddens me to see an attitude that reflects the lockstep media version of what is beautiful and worthy of viewing in a way that tries to make average people ashamed of their bodies. These people should be ashamed of their own attitudes.
Myself, I tend to be a pretty radical activist for things I believe in-- one of which is nudism-- and I believe these people are a scar on the entire concept of what BM is all about. SO, Lydia Love, I will join with you in getting people to de-pants and I will stand with you to actively shun these fashion nazis who disgrace the playa with their shallow, corporate, sexist attitudes! I hope I don't run into Gothalot or the pantzooka patrol... I'm afraid I tend to get radical when confronted with shallow people infringing on other people's good times.
And another thing: What's that I read in one post about a double standard on sexual activity from gay sex to straight sex? What's THAT bullshit? Either BOTH forms of sexual expression should warrant 'arrests' or NEITHER should. If I saw an example of that double standard going on... I would be starting trouble.

Post by **Eric** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:51 pm

Lydia Love wrote:You know who I want wearing clothes out there? People who wanna wear clothes. Fat? Flaunt it. Old? So what, we *all* get there someday. And nobody, and I mean no single person on this earth should be told they are too unlovely to show their skin.
(edited bits- read the original post)
Therefore, Admiral Antipants will be patrolling, getting as many people out of their pants as she possibly can. You'll know her - she'll be wearing a tee-shirt that says "Fear me, I wear No Pants" "No Pants, No Shame" or simply "Viva No Pants!"
If you want to be a recruit in the revolution the uniform is really easy to come by...

Lydia- write your manifesto-
I'll try to get Adrian to publish it in one of the early-in-the-week editions of Piss Clear. Can't promise anything (he's the editor, I but lowly photographer/staff), but I love the idea!

Anything to fight a dress code- or an undress code, as the case may be.

Eric

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:58 pm

Desertmac, Guess you read only the post that tip "your"scale so you can start some shit. BM it not about rules. Everyone can have an opinion. But if you feel you must start some thing about some ones opinion. Well you may find yourself left out. Why not leave that chip you have on your shoulder at home. Come find out what is real out on the desert.

desertmac · Post by **desertmac** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 12:21 am

Unjohnharley,
No, actually, I read many posts on a large variety of topics, as I'm trying to find out all I can before I come. I guess not getting off to someone saying only women should be naked and that they want to go around humiliating other people who want to do their own thing and be left alone is carrying a chip on my shoulder, huh. Sorry about that. I guess I have a chip on my shoulder when I want everyone to just live and let live, and don't think anyone should be intimidating other people about their self expression. After all, this was a newbie thread, started by someone who was nervous about the nudity aspect. What if that person new they wouldn't be considered a "hot woman" in gothalot's eyes, how would that make them feel?
Anyway, all I want to do is go to BM and have a great time and feel free and spiritual and artistic and musical and... naked, lol.
I really wish no one any ill feelings, and gothalot is probably a nice guy. Hopefully, he won't actually go around doing anything as humiliating and cruel as what he talks about. No one has the right to do that to other people.

Nudity an Nervousness

Nudity an Nervousness

Not even that much nudity

Nudity and whatnot

Pantzooka Patrol

nudity on the playa