C-PAPs & BRC

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dewnorth
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C-PAPs & BRC

Post by dewnorth » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:24 pm

Does anybody have any recommendations about if they got by without their C-PAP once in the desert?

I've seen C-PAPs that run on DC using a vehicle cigarette lighter outlet. How long has your car battery lasted running a C-PAP 8 to 10 hours a day?

The medical supply store told my truckers use DC power for their C-PAPs in their rigs, but I'm guessing that's not the same thing as running them off of just a car battery.

Thanks!

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unjonharley
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Post by unjonharley » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:42 pm

They consume a hell of a lot of power.. The truckers have huge batteries..

I just live without mine for a week At Burning Man..

All my brain cells are dead already anyway..

darren y
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Re: C-PAPs & BRC

Post by darren y » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:39 pm

dewnorth wrote:Does anybody have any recommendations about if they got by without their C-PAP once in the desert?

I've seen C-PAPs that run on DC using a vehicle cigarette lighter outlet. How long has your car battery lasted running a C-PAP 8 to 10 hours a day?

The medical supply store told my truckers use DC power for their C-PAPs in their rigs, but I'm guessing that's not the same thing as running them off of just a car battery.

Thanks!
seriously who sleeps 8-10 hours a day @ BM??
DC power = car battery (same thing)
normal car battery..... maybe but the you'll have to start the car to charge up the battery every so often.

some just go without, not for me I need it, went my first burn without cpap & it sucked, horrible headaches, but I run multiple generators now, so power is no problem.

you could always bring/borrow a battery charger to chargse your car battery?

Perhaps some long extention cords to run off a neighbors generator??

there is lots of people with power out there, be freindly, offer a gift, cook a meal, bring booze
aka: Mr. Mister

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kman
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Post by kman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:16 pm

I don't know what cpap you have, but it's pretty common for people to run them off batteries while camping, etc.

I don't know how many people run them every night for a solid week, however.

Check out the user reviews for this product:



Tons of them mention buying it for the express purpose of using it for their cpap during power outages or while camping.

That only has a 28 amp hour battery, however. Go to Costco or Pep Boys and you can pick up a 115 amp hour deep cycle marine battery, or bigger (I think PB has a 160?).

If a 28 amp hour battery will get your through a couple of nights, you should be able to get through at least half the week without over-discharging your deep cycle battery (you're only supposed to take it to 50% discharge to avoid damage). Hook it up to your car and run the engine for a while to recharge... or buy two. That should get you through the week, I would think, assuming all the assumptions hold true.

(Also: Click on All Reviews, the first one might be especially interesting)

I don't know if there are other models of cpaps that are more power-thrifty than yours, but based on all the reviews, it looks like a pretty plausible scenario.

Edit: Buy something soon so you can test it at home and be SURE, not just trusting some internet reviews with something so important to you.

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kman
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Post by kman » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:23 pm

Another tip:

Car battery is NOT the way to go. You'll kill it faster than the Duracell thing. You need a Deep Cycle battery, which is designed to provide extended power over a sustained time period. Car batteries are designed to unload most of their juice all at once, and then be recharged immediately. Draining ordinary car batteries in the way we're discussing will kill them in no time.

If you're sleeping in a car with the motor running (like truckers), this doesn't matter... but there, it's the alternator that's taking care of things.

Look for deep cycle marine batteries.

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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:25 am

I have friends who've done the deep cycle battery thing with their machines. One charged his on a friendly neighbor's genny, or took it to the huge solar power camp (Snow Koen?). The other used a small solar panel to top it off during the day.

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dewnorth
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Post by dewnorth » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:13 pm

Thanks all! I've just started on the C-PAP again after many years of not needing it. I might decide to go without fro the burn. If I bring my C-PAP, deep cycle seems like the way to go.

Last year, there was also a HUGE solar array where people could charge up their batteries. I think it was at 8:00., and was near the steam bath whose name escapes me.

Mishigas
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cpap

Post by Mishigas » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:41 pm

Go with the deep cycles if you don't have to carry them. Best are golf car batteries, there 6 volts so you need two in series. There about the same size as a car battery but a bit taller and heavier. Charge em on the way and they should last several nights/days before serious recharge is needed. They beat 12 volt car or deep cycles by a mile.

I use this for my cpap and run lights etc also. Have a solar pannel to recharge and it keeps me good for as long as needed.

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kman
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Re: cpap

Post by kman » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:05 pm

Mishigas wrote:Go with the deep cycles if you don't have to carry them. Best are golf car batteries, there 6 volts so you need two in series. There about the same size as a car battery but a bit taller and heavier. Charge em on the way and they should last several nights/days before serious recharge is needed. They beat 12 volt car or deep cycles by a mile.

I use this for my cpap and run lights etc also. Have a solar pannel to recharge and it keeps me good for as long as needed.
Golf car batteries are not inherently better than regular deep cycle batteries. You get more time out of two batteries... because you have two batteries. You get more time out of bigger batteries... because you have bigger batteries.

There's no such thing as a free lunch! (where batteries are concerned).

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dewnorth
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Post by dewnorth » Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:42 pm

My C-PAP says it's 24 volts DC. It requires an AC adaptor which says it's a 90 watt adaptor. It also says the output is 24 volts _ _ _ 3.75 amps.

I have 2 car/battery jumpers. One of them has a cigarette lighter receptacle. I don't know if they're deep cell or not.

Looks like I need to ask a lot of questions at my local battery store. I've forgotten the little bit I new in high school about electricity.

And to consider getting a solar panel, well that might be too much for me until I visit the Alternative Energy Zone.

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kman
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Post by kman » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:21 pm

dewnorth wrote:My C-PAP says it's 24 volts DC. It requires an AC adaptor which says it's a 90 watt adaptor. It also says the output is 24 volts _ _ _ 3.75 amps.

I have 2 car/battery jumpers. One of them has a cigarette lighter receptacle. I don't know if they're deep cell or not.

Looks like I need to ask a lot of questions at my local battery store. I've forgotten the little bit I new in high school about electricity.

And to consider getting a solar panel, well that might be too much for me until I visit the Alternative Energy Zone.
That's pretty high power draw. Are there other models that don't draw as much juice?

You need a little help from Ohm's Law.

Amps = Watts / Volts

And some high school algebra. As long as you know two, you can get the third.

Watts = Amps * Volts

and

Volts = Watts / Amps

If you have 3.75amps and 24v, you can figure watts.

Watts = 3.75 * 24v = 90w (just like the adapter... coincidence?)

You can also take the same figures and see what happens when you halve the voltage, to see how it will perform at 12v. The wattage stays the same, so dropping the voltage increases the amperage.

So if volts = watts/amps:

24v = 90w/3.75a

then

12v = 90w/7.5amps

In other words, at 12v you'd be drawing 7.5 amps. (and at 6v, double that!!!)

If the OP's c-pap has a similar draw, and you have a 120 amp-hour deep cycle battery, you should get 8 hours out your battery until you start to risk damage. Remember, you can only take the battery to 50% without starting to damage it, so that really gives you 60 amp-hours to work with... 60/7.5= 8 hours.

Of course, you can't just start messing with dropping voltage and expect the c-pap to work, so if you're c-pap really needs 24v, you'd want to wire two 12v batteries in series. The good news with that is now you also have twice the amp-hours to work with... 240, in the case of a pair of 120 amp-hour 12v batteries. And now you can run them for 16 hours before getting too low.

I would look into lower-power c-paps, though, if that's feasible, or at least bigger batteries.

Although, you're considering the battery disposable, and don't care if it continues to function after the event, you could take it farther down. Be sure to get to a battery center so it is properly recycled!

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dewnorth
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You guys rock!

Post by dewnorth » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:26 am

Thanks! Kman, thank you so much!!!!!

Has anyone "pre-filtered" their C-PAP by filtering the air before it gets to the machine's own filter by putting some sort of filter contraption over the machine or over the air intake? I have visions of the fine dust filling the machine's filter. Kinda like going from zero to clogged in 3.2 seconds.

(Adrian Monk is my hero. Like another burner says, "Anything worth doing is worth overdoing." Need I say more?)

cablemonkey
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Post by cablemonkey » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:05 pm

I run my cpap from batteries and a laptop inverter every year. I use a solar panel to charge the batteries during the day and I keep my machine in a well-sealed pelican case when I'm not using it. I don't have enough power to run the heated humidifier, but the cpap part works fine.

Change the filters before and after the event and you should be good to go.

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professorzed
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cpap

Post by professorzed » Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:49 pm

There are travel CPAP machines now, with their own battery kits.

http://www.cpap.com/cpap-battery-power/cpap-battery.php

Pre-filtering? Some have suggested putting the CPAP inside a box made out of furnace filters.

In some cases you can wear a plastic dental mouth guard which does the same thing as a CPAP, but physically positions the jaw and tongue into a optimal position, instead of relying on air pressure to do it. No power needed either.

http://www.sleepwellcentres.com/sleep-disorders/

(I know this one is for Canada, I'm certain they have the same thing in your city too.)

Unless you have severe sleep apnea, playing the Australian Didgeridoo has actually been proven to help treat sleep apnea. The way it does this is by teaching you 'circular breathing', as well as developing your throat muscles.

http://sleepdisorders.about.com/od/slee ... eridoo.htm

Here's a video about it.


Best of all, you can make your own Digeridoo with a piece of PVC pipe and some beeswax.

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kman
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Re: cpap

Post by kman » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:12 pm

professorzed wrote:There are travel CPAP machines now, with their own battery kits.

http://www.cpap.com/cpap-battery-power/cpap-battery.php
"Portable CPAP batteries can power a machine for about eight hours before it needs to be recharged."

And they're $280.

Better to just get a decent deep cycle marine battery ... they're about $70 at Costco for 115 amp hours. Two of them, in series, will give the 24 needed to run dewnorth's existing c-pap for about 16 hours. For ~$140.

That said, the cpap pack is tiny and very light weight. It's lithium ion instead of lead-acid... so there is a reason it costs so much.

Still, for the burner on a budget, half-price is worth considering. Also, lead-acid batteries, properly cared for, should last easily 5 years, while lithium ion batteries will be well on their way to dead in considerably less time. And while it sounds scary, the manufacturing process for lead-acid batteries has much lower environmental impact than that of lithium-ion, and they're easily recycled.

Oh. Just read a couple more strikes against the OEM battery pack.

Only works with specific 12v models. The OP's unit is 24v, so I'm guessing not compatible. And it can only be charged with AC, so no hope of recharging off the car or a solar panel, you'll need an inverter... and a special one, at that. so you can charge off a genny.

If, for some reason, you don't want two marine batteries in series to get your 24v, it looks like they sell a 12v to 24v adapter that will step up a single, regular 12v marine battery to the 24v level needed. It's about the same price as another battery, though, so aside from the weight savings (at the cost of double the power capacity), I'm not sure what the advantage would be.

hallobill
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Battery and C-PAP

Post by hallobill » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:49 pm

I spent a couple of weeks in the Amazon with my C-PAP and used one 12 V deep cycle battery the whole time. My machine happened to be dual voltage 120/12V. I took the C-PAP more to stop my snoring and not disturb the other campers than for me. On the Playa, with the music and constant noise all night, snoring does not seem to be an issue and although I brought it to BM last year, I never used it. It will not be making the trip this year.

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