problums with police?

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oneeyeddick
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Post by oneeyeddick » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:07 pm

Sorry for the snIIdeness, II was pissy at that moment.

II feel much beIIer now.
We have an obligation to make space for everyone, we have no obligation to make that space pleasant.

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Igneouss
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Post by Igneouss » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:21 am

Lorgasm wrote:I've always loved the motto of the law enforcement back in the day. Do you remember it? I do...TO PROTECT AND TO SERVE. You would think it still rings true today, and maybe it does. However, last year my boyfriend and I had many of our precious items stolen from us. I also have read and heard of many other burners who have had their items stolen. Its as though there is a group of evil bandits who only come to BRC to steal. Easy in. Easy out. Nothing was ever done to prevent these terrible acts. Meanwhile, the happy and loving burners (who, by the way contribute lots and lots of $$$$$$ to Nev. this time of year) are just here to absorb, enjoy, create, play, and bask in the glow that is Burningman.

I totally respect the law enforcement. I've always felt secure knowing the "blue man" was only a scream away. Look, we are not savages. People on any mind altering substance (that I know of) have ever done anything violent. There is no such thing as an angry stoner. We are all here to love, help, and play nice with one an another.

For all the law knows, my neighbor could be smoking a joint for medicinal purposes (which I support 150%!). Either way, I say cool. Enjoy. We are all here to live love laugh. In the meantime, protect you precious items, your friends, and your faith. :wink:

Much love,
Lorgasm
Medical use is not recognized in Nevada. If busted, any sort of medical use documentation is useless at BM. Be aware and educated. Know your risks.

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Igneouss
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Post by Igneouss » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:30 am

General comments on this thread:

When faced with a violation, LEO has to make a decision about the level of response.

If you alone and smoking a joint and not disruptive and not carrying a huge baggie of drugs... You might get off by being contrite. You might just get a warning... ETC

If you are in a group of people and the other people see the LEO and he sees you... You are hosed. LEO has to react to keep credibility. LEO does not want to send a 'tolerance' message to the crowd.

LEO is really looking for certain things:
Anything that rises to the level of dealing will get a response.
Underage involvement with drugs or alcohol will get a response.
Any potential non-consnet sex crime will get a response.

Minor personal use in a relatively private setting that does not involve minors... Maybe, maybe not.

There is excellent guidance on the BM web site concern LEO interaction.


Read it.

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mojo
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Post by mojo » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:15 pm

Green Wood wrote: Greeters have been known to be undercover cops!
AIIZ
IMHO - Nope - this does not, and has not ever happened. Period. It is complete urban legend.
Cum catapulte proscripte erunt tum soli proscripti catapultus haebunt.

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Absolut Jeenyus
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Post by Absolut Jeenyus » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:05 pm

Lorgasm wrote: I also have read and heard of many other burners who have had their items stolen. Its as though there is a group of evil bandits who only come to BRC to steal. Easy in. Easy out. Nothing was ever done to prevent these terrible acts.
Nothing was ever done? So you are expecting someone to come and clean the problem up for you? Lock your shit up. Get in good with your neighbors. Always have a camp mate somewhere in camp. Problem solved.

Or we can just all complain about what should be done and sit here with our dicks in our hands waiting for someone else to do it. Maybe we should get LEO to create a secret task force to hunt for the pack of roaming thieves since we cant seem to lock up and keep an eye on our own shit.

If you see something that needs to be done, why aren't you doing it?
-AJ )'(

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:14 pm

Absolut Jeenyus wrote: Maybe we should get LEO to create a secret task force to hunt for the pack of roaming thieves since we cant seem to lock up and keep an eye on our own shit.
That is exactly what they should be doing.
Their job.


Where is the thread with details on how to mount a deadbolt on my tent?

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Igneouss
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Post by Igneouss » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:25 pm

Let me see if I got this straight...

Someone leaves thousands of dollars worth of portable goods unlocked and unattended in a city occupied by 50,000 people? And Many of the citizens are anti social types? And stuff gets stolen??

Sounds like a stupid tax to me.

My stuff will be secured/locked/out of site/clearly marked/etc.

No plan is perfect but it's easy to make it much less likely that my stuff will be stolen.

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ygmir
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Post by ygmir » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:26 pm

I"m with A.J.

take care of your own stuff/self.......(radical responsibility?)

lock it,
hide it,
carry it with you,
get someone to watch it,
or don't bring it......

but,
don't cry because you didn't take the time to ensure the security of things you want secured.........

I'm not in favor of raoming LEO's looking for "robbers".........or whatever..........

and:
catch a thief, and, deal with them VERY harshly......ourselves......

I bet it'd discourage many thieves if they knew, that, if they get caught by burners, stealing, they'll be the ones calling for the cops, to save 'em.....
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

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Igneouss
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Post by Igneouss » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:26 pm

Double post...I can edit it but I can't delete it grrrrrr.

Let me see if I got this straight...

Someone leaves thousands of dollars worth of portable goods unlocked and unattended in a city occupied by 50,000 people? And Many of the citizens are anti social types? And stuff gets stolen??

Sounds like a stupid tax to me.

My stuff will be secured/locked/out of site/clearly marked/etc.

No plan is perfect but it's easy to make it much less likely that my stuff will be stolen.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:48 pm

Just means it's that much easier to catch enough thieves to put them on notice.

Easier than blaming victims.

And I still don't know how to lock a tent.


I made the same suggestion to the feds here.
They did it and it's working.

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Absolut Jeenyus
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Post by Absolut Jeenyus » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:52 pm

gyre wrote:
Absolut Jeenyus wrote: Maybe we should get LEO to create a secret task force to hunt for the pack of roaming thieves since we cant seem to lock up and keep an eye on our own shit.
That is exactly what they should be doing.
Their job.


Where is the thread with details on how to mount a deadbolt on my tent?
Oh did you not get the memo? Here you are...
Are you saying that law enforcement isn't doing their job by tending to issues like safety as opposed to investing their efforts into thievery that could have been prevented by using a little common sense? I think for the most part LE does a fine job out there.

Preserving Community By Preventing Theft
by Tom Price & Ray Russ

Preserving Community By Preventing Theft

For many of us, creating and participating in a community built around personal responsibility, gift-based interaction, and openly sharing of ourselves is more important than anything else that happens on the playa. Many leave Black Rock City profoundly changed in their perceptions about how community and society can function, going back to spread little seedlings of open-mindedness back home. Nothing shatters these feelings like theft, and sadly the playa isn't exempt. With that in mind, read on:

In a city built on a gift economy, it can start innocently enough: someone helping themselves to an open pack of cigarettes, snagging a beer out of a camp's communal ice chest without asking (or being offered), or even hopping a ride on an art car without thanking the artist who built it. But theft is more than just someone "borrowing" an unattended bicycle at a port-o-toilet, sneaking someone into the event, or lifting a $2000 generator while the owner is watching the Man burn. It's also taking your image, your energy, your efforts and your creativity without your consent. It occurs any time there is an unwilling or uninformed exchange of goods. It is a breakdown in our shared social contract. The good news is it can be largely prevented.


Stopping It Before It Starts
Though some thefts are calculated and premeditated, most occur on the spur of the moment, when someone walks by an unattended camp or public area and sees something just sitting there, and then greed and dehydration and god knows what other unmet needs rise to the surface and bang — there goes your EL Wire Pogo Stick.



To stop theft from happening, here are a few common sense ideas:

1. Know your neighbors. Thieves prey on people not knowing each other. March right over to that truck that just pulled in and share your plate of seven-layer bean dip and packets of Emergen-C to say hello. See someone near your camp you haven't met? Introduce yourself. Most people will appreciate it, and thieves will be discouraged from going anywhere they're recognized.
2. Organize a Neighborhood Watch in your little patch o'BRC. It can be as organized or loose or as tight as you like — the important thing is giving your neighbors the gift of watching out for each other. Doing so encourages interaction, engenders familiarity and establishes trust.
3. Keep a safe and secure camp. The open nature of most living in Black Rock City is custom made for opportunity thieves. Save them from themselves: when you leave camp, even for a few minutes, place valuable items out of sight.
4. Don't bring things you can't live without. If you bring your $3,000 titanium-framed, grip-shifted, tricked-out mountain bike to the playa to ride back and forth to Johnny-On-The-Spot, you're making a mistake. If you bring it without a lock, you need to have your head examined.
5. If you take something, take it back. Sometimes the moment gets the best of us. Maybe you borrowed a bike, a six-pack, or a sequined muumuu without asking. If so, take it back, apologize, and do something to make up for it — nothing says, "I'm truly sorry" like washing someone's crusty playa feet, hint hint.

The Cost of Art Theft
Probably nothing tears at the soul of the city like stories about art theft. Art theft has immediate consequences. It discourages artists from putting forward their best efforts. It might even prevent them from returning to the event. A case in point: people wandering the playa at night in 1997 sometimes stumbled across a sound installation made from hundreds of small poles, each holding two speakers. Because it operated only at night and completely devoid of lights, just discovering the installation was a gift, and lying amidst the soft tumult of noise in the darkness was for many their fondest memory of that year. Sadly, most will never experience this art: several speakers were stolen, and the artist, quite understandably, has refused to bring it back. Just last year, some extremely selfish people stole some of the pieces from the Lily Pond installation, a thoughtless act that both deprived everyone else of another's effort and vision.


Art theft is wrong. Art theft destroys the community. Art theft will rain hot karmic death down on you sure as kicking a puppy. If you really can't live without a souvenir, find the artist — many might be willing to work something out.

Meanwhile, take responsibility for protecting art. If you see someone acting inappropriately — pulling a bulb from Y2K, pulling decorations off a barter bar — ACT! Call them to account. And don't put up with anyone saying, "it's going to burn anyway, what does it matter?" Only the artists decide when and if to burn their work, not the Vox Intoxici.

Thief in Your Midst
Say that in spite of all your neighborhood watch group's best effort, someone slipped in and stole something — or tried to, because you caught ’em red handed. Now what? You have a couple options. Remember: Black Rock City is about radical self-expression AND responsibility. Accept responsibility for your interactions, and if you feel comfortable doing so, deal with it within the confines of your personal community. If you work it out to everyone's satisfactions, without having to bring in los federales, good on ya. On the other hand, if you don't feel you can or want to deal with this, call on the Black Rock Rangers, with outposts located at 3:00, 9:00, and Center Camp, open 24/7. They will work with you to create a solution.

Which brings up a perfect opportunity to speak directly to a would-be thief: are you sure no one's looking? Without giving away trade secrets, we'll suffice to say the Black Rock Rangers are incredibly well equipped and organized, and pity the fool who thinks they can hide under cover of darkness from the speeding cyclists of the Black Rock Ranger's RNR, or Rapid Night Response.

Common Sense, Uncommon Interaction
Remember that the worst times for theft are during the big burns, which makes sense in two ways: most everyone has left their camp, and in the frenzied rush to get gussied and fueled up for the big night out, you may not take time to put everything away. Do. Five minutes locking up your stuff now equals one hour you don't have to spend down at Playa Info waiting in line, only to be told that no one has returned that 17-inch Powerbook you left on your coffee table.

Again, remember that most theft takes place on impulse, involves strangers, so ipso facto the fewer people who are strangers the less theft. Most people want to do good, people on the playa especially so, but not everyone can easily express themselves or meet strangers. Stretch yourself — go out of your way to talk to that new neighbor. Hey, you never know what may come of it. As an anonymous note left hanging in a dome once said "Love doesn't always call. Sometimes it whispers — keep listening."
-AJ )'(

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Da Mule
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Post by Da Mule » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:52 pm

He signs "A II Z" when he's not joking, so that sock was not joking.

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Da Mule
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Post by Da Mule » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:52 pm

He signs "A II Z" when he's not joking, so that sock was not joking.

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Absolut Jeenyus
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Post by Absolut Jeenyus » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:04 pm

gyre wrote:And I still don't know how to lock a tent.
I made the same suggestion to the feds here.
They did it and it's working.
I don't know why you focus so much on locking and dead bolting a tent. Unless people are planning to steal a sleeping bag I don't see why you would want to. You can keep most valuables locked in something more secure. Like a car. Besides that most things that get stolen are things left in the open. I cant imagine a thief would want to take the chance of unzipping a tent and having a person pop out.

I believe that the citizens of Black Rock have a lot more control over the prevention theft then the police do. An officer isn't going to spotlight on every camp where he sees someone moving around to find out if they are a thief. I mean it would be a futile effort and a waste of time. Now the people of BRC can take precautions and use some common sense to prevent most of the thievery thats taking place. I mean right?
-AJ )'(

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:27 pm

I think organized thievery is a safety issue.
And most of my near death experiences on the playa involve official trucks over driving their lights.
So I think they can do the job before it gets even bigger.

I have seen deliberate theft occur in the middle of theme camps before the event starts and often late in the outskirts of the city.
It does go on.
People willing to enter occupied tents/ rvs will inevitably hurt someone, if it hasn't happened.

Sorry.
Blaming even a stupid victim is horseshit.

Other than the organized professional thieves, you have punks of all types who see it as a chance to do what they want.
Most tell themselves it isn't stealing.
Some arrive believing it.
And some are just thieves at home too.

The playa is a containment area.
Not that hard to catch thieves.

I'm not expecting the police to find the holy grail.
Just a few criminals in a dense over-patrolled area.
Fish in a barrel.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:35 pm

Absolut Jeenyus wrote:
gyre wrote:And I still don't know how to lock a tent.
I made the same suggestion to the feds here.
They did it and it's working.
I don't know why you focus so much on locking and dead bolting a tent. Unless people are planning to steal a sleeping bag I don't see why you would want to. You can keep most valuables locked in something more secure. Like a car. Besides that most things that get stolen are things left in the open. I cant imagine a thief would want to take the chance of unzipping a tent and having a person pop out.

I believe that the citizens of Black Rock have a lot more control over the prevention theft then the police do. An officer isn't going to spotlight on every camp where he sees someone moving around to find out if they are a thief. I mean it would be a futile effort and a waste of time. Now the people of BRC can take precautions and use some common sense to prevent most of the thievery thats taking place. I mean right?
The theft I am talking about involves rifling tents and rvs and yes, they have confronted people before.
Most people ride with someone else and don't have access to a locking vehicle.
So when you fly or ride in with someone, the tent is it.
I hide my valuables, but that's all I can do usually.

There are better approaches than wandering aimlessly looking around.
The patterns of theft are well known.

Trackers are now so cheap I will be adding them to my storage eventually.
That was the suggestion I made to the task force here.
Bait with trackers.
I just found out they started after I suggested it.
I was heavily robbed the night I left for the burn in 2007.
My fault for leaving it out in the open, right?

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Absolut Jeenyus
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Post by Absolut Jeenyus » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:05 pm

Ok well I never said that it was the victims fault. Ever. I understand these things go on. I'm not denying that. And its a good idea the bait and trap thing. But still the people have more control over theft prevention than the LEO's out there. I was simply addressing Lorgasms comment of "nothing has ever been done to prevent this". One way to prevent it is personal camp security. I just don't think that we should be totally relying on the efforts of the police out there when there is a lot people can do personally to avoid these problems.

I have tried to do my best for our camp by doing a few simple things and I think it really pays off and has probably prevented theft in my camp without me even knowing it. I understand everyones camp setup is different, some people don't have access to a car as a safe, and it really sucks to think you cant leaves some things in the open at certain times but with the numbers increasingly growing, there are bound to be bad seeds. I think any efforts by the citizens and LEO's of BRC to prevent this shit from happening are all good efforts.


I fucking hate thieves. :evil:
-AJ )'(

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Igneouss
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Post by Igneouss » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:23 pm

Fault?
Crime happens to anyone. But it is way more likely to happen to people that fail to take simple steps to prevent it.

If that is 'blaming the victim' then so be it.

My generator will be locked and marked to make it easily identified. My camera will not be left in plain sight. My bike will be locked when I am not on it or standing next to it.

Simple stuff.

Effective stuff.

Stuff any cop will tell you works.

Another way that victims make things worse is by not reporting crime. If there are not a bunch of reports of stolen generators that are made directly to the authorities, then they will not start looking for generator thieves. Complaining here does nothing (with the possible exception of warning a few readers). Second hand rumors do nothing.

ID your stuff. Lock your stuff. Keep valuables out of sight. If you can't protect something then don't bring it. BRC is not that different than any other city of 50,000 when it comes to this sort of shit.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:30 pm

I have heard of some success in catching the bike theft gangs going out the gate.
I'd like to see more of that.

Triple fishhooks work great for minor theft.
Problem is the chance of snagging innocent idiots out there.
They really work.
Just fasten the thread to something solid.

The hardened security chain (65 rockwell) I have mentioned elsewhere is the best way to secure generators.
No comparison to lifting chain, even 100 proof.
With my generator we attached an I-beam with 1" pins and locks.
Tripled the weight.
And leaves easy places to chain to.


Sadly, those with well organized tents seem to get hit worse.
The longer it takes to sort through everything, the better in this case.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:43 pm

I certainly agree with marking things and reporting all crime.

I have marked bikes on the seat and coolers as well.
A few paint markers can do a lot.
The Nissen is the best I have but hard to use as its a ball point.
Sharpie has a new paint valve that is in big stores in silver.
I go to industrial supply places for the good stuff.
Be sure to get colors for dark and light materials.
Lighter coats fade in sun faster.

And you can carve your info with a rotary dremel and the right bit.
Stencils are effective for some things.
For serious stuff, you can get a letter/number set of steel stamps.

bs bob
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Post by bs bob » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:32 pm

the surival guide warns aganst driving through schurz ??coming from phoenix thats the best quikest way-anyone know a good detour??

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Hoolie
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Post by Hoolie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:34 am


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Hoolie
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Post by Hoolie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:35 am

AntiM wrote:"Why did you pull ME over officer? Lots of other people are speeding."

"Ever go fishing son? Well, I bet you never caught ever single fish in the lake, now did you?"
Except fishermen throw the little ones back, and go after the big fish instead. Not so with law enforcement these days.

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Absolut Jeenyus
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Post by Absolut Jeenyus » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:24 pm

^^Haha What? Your telling me the police don't go after the big fish? I don't know what kind of rent-a-cops your dealing with. Guaranfuckintee the bacon climbs the chain.
-AJ )'(

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