Getting carded on the playa

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mazatta
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Getting carded on the playa

Post by mazatta » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:32 am

Perhaps a silly question, perhaps not.

I'm definitely of legal drinking age, but I have heard that the theme camps slinging drinks will check ID to cover their asses (and rightfully so). Is a photocopy of my driver's licence generally considered good enough? The prospect of losing my ID 2000+ KM away from home isn't exactly something I'd like to face.

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thisisthatwhichis
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by thisisthatwhichis » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:38 am

Legally, for the Theme camps, yes, it's good enough. All they need is for you to say that you are over 21, and legal to drink. But, because of the stings, it will depend on the bartender. Some may require ID as their policy, just to be super-safe.
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:40 am

Get an overzied color copy made and have it laminated.
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mazatta
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by mazatta » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:53 am

Works for me, thank you!

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illy dilly
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by illy dilly » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:01 am

FIGJAM wrote:Get an overzied color copy made and have it laminated.
I like the over sized part!
But then do you figure that people will figure you faked it?

I'd like to hear some of the theme camps chime in.
I'll try to direct some of the theme camp folks this way.
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C.f.M.
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by C.f.M. » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:02 am

You can get self-laminating sheets at WalMart and such places. You just peel it open, stick the photocopy inside, and you've got a laminated copy.

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C.f.M.
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by C.f.M. » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:10 am

FWIW, I keep a photocopy of my DL (and other ID forms) permanently in my glove compartment. Anyone driving might want to do the same. I've been in situations with injured people, nobody knew who they were and I was unable to find any form of identification in their tent (because they'd locked their wallet in their car off-site).

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MegsLegs
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by MegsLegs » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:39 am

Our camp got dinged one year, though the charge was dropped after the burn. We're pretty serious of ID-ing everyone who looks young, and the person who serves an underager will be personally responsible for the fine incurred (rather than the camp) which gives us all plenty of motivation to cover our own asses.

I understand not wanting to take your id out on the playa not knowing how blitzed you're going to get. I would most likely accept a photocopy if it was clear, the person explained their reasoning and I liked their swagger. If they were jerks demanding service I'd use it as an easy reason not to. I'd also understand if a bartender was being careful and would rather the original.

I got ID'd once last year- and I'm in my mid-thirties (and look like I'm in my mid- thirties) I continued to enjoy the band playing even without a beer. A photocopy is better than nothing, but will fly with some bartenders and not others- and that'll be ok :)

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This Woman
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by This Woman » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:51 am

I know several camps will not accept a photocopied ID, but as MegsLegs says, you can enjoy the music without a beer. Our bartenders are responsible for any fines they incur and are fully instructed on the laws. I recommend to them that they ask and ID as a twofold precaution, but that is up to ea individual tender. I myself often only ask. I have my old expired ID with a hole in it to show expired. I take that with me when I go out, but I am obviouly over 21. It's more a precaution should I drop dead or something.
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by RACESV » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:53 am

At Champagne Lounge it would be acceptable if the person serving you accepts it. Same as other posters, the person that incurs the fine is responsible for the fine. The camp offers no support for members if they do get caught up in this situation. If any of us do deny you, or any other camps, because they do not feel safe serving someone without the actual ID, they are not trying to be dicks, they are just covering their asses.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Dustdevil » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:59 am

Our camp has a policy to ask someone who appears a little young what year they were born in. Many won't think about it in advance and if they hesitate, they are out. We have never asked for ID but we do ask "are you old enough to drink in this State"? All the drinking citations from 2010 have been tossed on technicalities. You may find law enforcement changes their approach this year.

We did have one very young looking guy reverse the question and ask me "How old do you think I look"? After a couple of back and forths we refused him. He came back with his ID and he was 32. You just never know. We have been serving frozen margaritas for six years now and his was the only ID we have looked at. We have turned down a lot of people who admitted they were too young.

We have a sign up that states we will be checking ID and The Red One, our camp hostess, manages a grocery store so she goes through this every day.

Ask Doc Pyro about The Red One.

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This Woman
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by This Woman » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:00 am

BTW, the penalty is up to 6 months in jail or up to $1,000 fine. It can really knock the wind out of your burn, and best to be avoided.
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Savannah
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Savannah » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:01 am

We did have one very young looking guy reverse the question and ask me "How old do you think I look"? After a couple of back and forths we refused him. He came back with his ID and he was 32. You just never know.
Sounds like he needed an ego boost. :lol:

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illy dilly
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by illy dilly » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:04 am

Yeah, I got denyed once last year for not having my ID. Was no big deal.
Can't really blame them for not wanting to add another 1,000 dollars to their Burning Man debt.

I've also found that when I really want a drink, I can't find an open bar. But when I have a back pack full of cold beer, there is a bar every 20 yards. :roll:
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Dr. Pyro » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:07 am

Illy Dilly asked me to chime in, so I shall. We do card at Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro. Just last year I asked a young lady for an I.D. and she said, "I turn 21 tomorrow!" So I told her to come back then. She never came back. She could have been part of a sting. If they admit to you they're not 21 and you serve them, that's pretty open-and-shut. We have had the LEOs wander in and out of our camp on several occasions over they years so I'm pretty careful. Also we put up a sign NO MINORS ALLOWED IN BAR. I doubt that had any effect on your underaged dipsomaniac, but at least it's a start.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by ConnieH » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:07 am

Me personally, if you look like a kid and show me a photocopy I'd be skeptical and would probably ask you to bring me your real ID. If you look in your 30's or older, I probably wouldn't question it unless I got a weird vibe. I don't card everyone, but I do ask people who look under 30 if they are over 21. You can tell a lot from how they answer...and I gauge my response accordingly. If they don't have ID of any kind once questioned, I politely tell them they can't hang out inside the bar until they bring me ID. I always err on the side of caution and I try to train our camp's bartenders to do the same. One isn't invited back this year because she f*cked up big time - solicited drugs and made a huge mess of the cooler and bar. Pretty sure she never carded anyone or even asked.

If it's possible to get a duplicate ID, do it - here you can get an ID only (not drivers license) pretty cheap and easy from DMV. That's what I carry and leave my driver's license safely locked in my car. Not that anyone is going to card old me, but always good to have some kind of ID on you in case of an emergency.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by HandJamMasterC » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:11 am

We take this issue seriously at Camp DOA. The law states -

NRS 202.055 Sale or furnishing of alcoholic beverage to minor; aiding minor to purchase or procure alcoholic beverage; policy to prevent minor from obtaining alcoholic beverage through use of Internet.
1. Every person who knowingly:
(a) Sells, gives or otherwise furnishes an alcoholic beverage to any person under 21 years of age;
(b) Leaves or deposits any alcoholic beverage in any place with the intent that it will be procured by any person under 21 years of age; or
(c) Furnishes, gives, or causes to be given any money or thing of value to any person under 21 years of age with the knowledge that the money or thing of value is to be used by the person under 21 years of age to purchase or procure any alcoholic beverage, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. Paragraph (a) of subsection 1 does not apply to a parent, guardian or physician of the person under 21 years of age.

So, we ( bars ) are only required to ask for ID for anyone that looks under 21 ( I'm old, so anyone under 30 these days looks young to me ). If you are 30 years old or younger, please bring at least a copy of your ID to help us bars out.

We have controlled access into ( and out of ) our bar area, and a host / hostess acting as " gatekeeper. Everyone coming into our bar is asked the following -

(1) Are you twenty-one years of age or older?

(2) Is it legal for you to consume alcohol in the state of Nevada?

Repeat after me -
I swear ( on this Bible* ) that I am twenty-one years of age or older
And
It is legal for me to consume alcohol in the state of Nevada.


* - use of a Bible is optional

And yes, I'll whip out a Bible if I think you're under 21 or an undercover cop and make you swear on it. If that is good enough for a court swearing me in to hear my case on whether I used due diligence to stop underaged drinking, it's Goddam good enough for me !!
Last edited by HandJamMasterC on Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by ConnieH » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:11 am

illy dilly wrote:Yeah, I got denyed once last year for not having my ID. Was no big deal.
Can't really blame them for not wanting to add another 1,000 dollars to their Burning Man debt.

I've also found that when I really want a drink, I can't find an open bar. But when I have a back pack full of cold beer, there is a bar every 20 yards. :roll:
Come by Farmopolis, the Cornhole Bar is always open :) Well, maybe not at 5:30 am...but sometimes if someone is still up who feels like bartending.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by HandJamMasterC » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:14 am

Stuff I've found around here over the last 2 years for bars just FYI ( thanks to Barbie Death Camp and Wine Bistro, Booby Bar and others for these helpful bartender tip - you guys rock )

Burning Man Bar Tips 2011

1) Don't be afraid to NOT serve someone.
2) Don't be afraid to cut people off.
3) Don't feel bad when asking someone to leave for whatever reason.
4) Always have a digital camera on hand. If someone or something feels creepy trust your gut and try to get a pic of the person in it. NOTE: there are two instances in my experience as a Ranger when doing this helped us catch a sex offender and a predator that dosed a woman.
5) Don't be afraid to ask for what you need.
6) Don't be afraid to ask for ID's and not serve folk if they don't have one.
7) If you are given the line "But this is Burning Man!" you should immediately cut them off.
8) Make every effort to keep your side of the street clear of obstructing bikes and whatnot.
9) Don't do it alone.
10) Get to know your neighbors, get to know your BRC Rangers.
11. Try to have something else going on in your bar besides "just" drinking (good conversation, chance to meet new friends, etc.). At the Booby Bar we have a differently themed party every night and encourage people to come in costume and participate.

12. When it stops being fun, stop doing it.
Totally agree about carding. The law states that you have to knowingly serve a minor to be in offense, so if someone looks like a minor, by all means card them, Burning Man be damned. I've only done this two or three times in two years, and of course they didn't have ID.
Ask EVERYONE: "Are you 21 years of age or older, and legal to drink in the state of Nevada?"
The Booby Bar rule is to ask EVERYONE, if you don't answer yes you don't get a drink. If you make it fun, no one gets upset. And asking everyone makes it a habit.
Be prepared for a visit from the BLM LEOs. They'll come, take a look around, make sure there are no minors. They are legally entitled to do this. They were very professional last year when they came in our bar.
At Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro we insist you use our cups. They are three ounces (about 1/2 glass of traditional wine glass) and that way we can control how much people drink. Take a 16 ounce growler and fill it to the brim with wine and you'll have people barfing all over Gigsville!
Seperate your personal areas from the bar area and enforce it. You will end up with people who drift into your personal areas and pass out for a day or two if you don't keep them out.

Try to make sure people finish their drinks or you end up with a sloppy mess to deal with.
Hide your trash cans. If somebody asks to put their empty beer can in your trash, say "we don't have any trash cans." Really. This goes for any theme camp with a lot of traffic.
**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**\<>/**
BARS & DRINKING AT BURNING MAN - "ARE YOU 21?"
Planning to gift booze on the playa? Planning to drink it? Whether theme camp, art car, or on stilts, you should be aware of Nevada laws on underage drinking. Law enforcement at Burning Man takes this issue VERY seriously - as in, undercover stings, major fines, and sucky experiences all around kind of serious. We know our community always hits the mark when they have the right information, and handles this issue responsibly.
So....below you'll find helpful information about servin' and drinkin' alcohol at Burning Man. READ UP, if you'll be doing either one.
- It is a misdemeanor to serve alcoholic beverages to anyone under 21 years old in Nevada. The law still applies if the alcohol is gifted as opposed to sold. Theme camps are considered public space and subject to enforcement of this law. (NRS 202.055) In 2001 the Nevada State Supreme Court limited the application of NRS 202.055 to only servers who had actual or constructive knowledge that the person seeking the alcohol was under 21. This means that you must card someone who looks underage. Conversely, if someone looks of age you are not required to card him or her.
- It is a misdemeanor for a minor to consume or possess an alcoholic beverage in a public space (e.g., theme camps, open playa, center camp, etc). (NRS 202.020)
- It is a misdemeanor for a minor to pass him or herself off as being of age. (NRS 202.040)
- Misdemeanors carry the following penalties: Up to 6 months in county jail, and/or a fine up to $1,000. Alternatively, community service may be sentenced in lieu of, or in conjunction with jail time and fines. (NRS 176.087)
- If a minor loiters in a place where alcoholic beverages are consumed (besides a food establishment) then the minor could receive a fine up to $500. (NRS 202.030) Also, if the person in charge of the "tavern" allows the minor to loiter then he or she could be fined up to $500 also. (NRS 202.060)
Enforcement of the laws is either done by carding the person outright, or through undercover sting operations. None of this is new and not terribly different from most other state laws.
But what can you do to #1 Avoid illegally serving minors?, #2 Avoid being cited, or #3 If cited, demonstrate the due diligence against serving minors you used when operating a bar on the playa?
1) Don't serve anyone without ID who appears underage.
2) Ask for ID for anyone who appears underage. Learn to read it properly and determine by the date of birth if the person is old enough to drink.
3) Post "No Minors Allowed - No Minors Served" signs to discourage minors from committing a misdemeanor by loitering, requesting, or consuming alcohol at your bar.
4) Do not allow minors to loiter at your bar: ask them to leave.
5) Confer with a co-server -- get a second opinion -- when a patron appears "youthfully" over 21.
6) Work together - if you have refused to serve a patron because they do not appear to be of legal age, notify all your bar servers of your decision. There may be undercover operatives working with local law enforcement that attempt to be served more than once.
(NOTE: Federal and local law enforcement priorities differ on one or more of these issue. If you find yourself in an unfortunate encounter please get a badge number and/or name and note what agency you are dealing with. It might come in handy.)
Bottom line: NEVER, NEVER knowingly serve alcohol to a minor! It's illegal. It's not cool. It's not community minded.
AND -- the nice folks at camp Abstininthe remind those of you who are blessed enough to look young should carry your ID with you at the event, because they - and other camps - should, and will, be asking you to verify your age.
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LostinReno
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by LostinReno » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:15 am

This Woman wrote: I have my old expired ID with a hole in it to show expired. I take that with me when I go out, but I am obviouly over 21. It's more a precaution should I drop dead or something.
If you live in Nevada and are anywhere near needing your license renewed, this is an awesome idea! I just renewed mine in June. Since they mail it to you now, you go in and get your picture taken. They punch a hole in your old license and give you a piece of paper which is esentially your new license until the other one shows up. I'm well over 21 but am totally carrying my holey ID, just to have ID on me. Thanks for the great idea This Woman!! :D +10!!

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Mulligan » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:19 am

I'm in my 30's and got carded at only one bar last year. I think it was because the bartender didn't want me and my friend to stick around.

I also found a license on the playa last year and once we got back, contacted the guy through facebook to make sure the address was current. I mailed it back to a very grateful guy.

I think as long as you're of age and not youngish looking, you won't have a problem. If you get carded and have it, great. Otherwise, time to move on.

If you have to catch a plane to get home, you might want to consider getting an ID card/photocopy version beforehand so you are able to fly. FWIW

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by SnowBlind » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:35 am

HandJamMasterC wrote:And yes, I'll whip out a Bible if I think you're under 21 or an undercover cop and make you swear on it. If that is good enough for a court swearing me in to hear my case on whether I used due diligence to stop underaged drinking, it's Goddam good enough for me !!
That is awesome. Extra credit for having a bible in the bar, ready to go.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by SnowBlind » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:37 am

LostinReno wrote:
This Woman wrote: I have my old expired ID with a hole in it to show expired. I take that with me when I go out, but I am obviouly over 21. It's more a precaution should I drop dead or something.
If you live in Nevada and are anywhere near needing your license renewed, this is an awesome idea! I just renewed mine in June. Since they mail it to you now, you go in and get your picture taken. They punch a hole in your old license and give you a piece of paper which is esentially your new license until the other one shows up. I'm well over 21 but am totally carrying my holey ID, just to have ID on me. Thanks for the great idea This Woman!! :D +10!!
As an added bonus, you can use the hole to put a string thru and hang it around your neck. That way you won't lose it, and bartenders can card you even when you are completely hammered.

Now that I think about it, all IDs should come with a hole.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:39 am

AND all holes shoud come with IDs!!! :wink:
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by akmojo » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:45 am

alls it takes is once and someones Burn, if not the whole Camps, will be ruined....
as much of a drag it is having to ask someone if they are over 21, it's not worth the risk by being blase about it considering the consequences...
once busted, it's too late then.... and knowing Murphy's law.. I won't be lucky and get off...
we are posting "no minors" signs at our structure's entrance that holds our Camp bar
I will follow TITWI's advice in asking, I figure he would know best (I used to anyways when pouring wine at Barbie Death Camp).. I understand (Nevada law) that if the bartender is lied to then it's on the minor.. I'd really like to get that verified in concrete..
several Camp members have discussed this and aren't happy but I am adamant on everyone in Camp that bartends to at least ask young looking visitors if they are 21 or over if inside our structure w/bar, think of the headache if your Camp was busy, a minor brought their own drink in and was drinking in a group or someone in their group passed them a Camp drink and all the Leo saw was the minor drinking it, I don't want any potential trouble for anyone let alone giving the Leos some sort of weak PC to maybe search around more... yes, it is the individual bartenders responsibility but I also feel that as a "Camp" we should all have each others backs....

I like the idea about copies of ones ID and laminated
think big and dare to fail

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illy dilly
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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by illy dilly » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:46 am

Dr. Pyro wrote:Illy Dilly asked me to chime in, so I shall. We do card at Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro. Just last year I asked a young lady for an I.D. and she said, "I turn 21 tomorrow!" So I told her to come back then. She never came back. She could have been part of a sting. If they admit to you they're not 21 and you serve them, that's pretty open-and-shut. We have had the LEOs wander in and out of our camp on several occasions over they years so I'm pretty careful. Also we put up a sign NO MINORS ALLOWED IN BAR. I doubt that had any effect on your underaged dipsomaniac, but at least it's a start.
Thanks for chiming in Doc!
Your many years of wisdom are always appreciated.
Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~piehole
Plan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Lassen Forge » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:06 pm

I said this elsewhere, but it bears repeating...

It is a Misdemeanor for anyone to represent themselves as being over the age of 21 and legal to drink in the state of Nevada falsely, with the intent of procuring alcohol. We not only card, but ask the 3 most important questions a bartender needs to ask...

"Are you at or over the age of 21?" (Minor Law)

"Is it legal for you, in the satae of Nevada, to consume alcohol at this time?" (Court order law)

"Who was better Soviet Premier - Lenin, Stalin, Kruchev, or Gorbachev, and why?" (Soviet Law)

(OK, the third one is most important in our camp.)

Also, you MUST NOT serve alcohol to someone who appears to be intoxicated. This is another biggie they can get you for - someone walks in, slurring and stumbling, and asks for a drink. You serve them, and whammo. The 3rd question, in our case trips up someone to fubar to drink. We also have a judgment call, esp. if 2 or more barkeeps are working - if one of them says "Don't serve them", it's over (one may catch something the other didn't). The "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason" sign is our backbone.

You should also have a sign telling minors they are not welcome in your establishment, and will not be served. The law has changed since I was a little kid, and the bar had a yellow line around it on the floor 6' from the edge of the bar - and a sign (Minors not permitted beyond yellow line) behind the bar. Now they may not loiter in or around an establishment serving alcohol.

We got hit a few times... They tried a few different ruses with us last year, and we hit it back into their court, wherein they walked away. DO NOT fall for anything other than proof that you are serving to a person over 21, legal to drink in Nevada, and not already drunk.

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by akmojo » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:17 pm

BBS....
what about Vladimir P.
he is THE law there.......
think big and dare to fail

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Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by Irreverent Moniker » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:39 pm

the answer is obviously Stalin. he came to power in a country of farmers and hand labor, he left a country with nuclear weapons and on the verge of space flight
Walk tall, kick ass, learn to speak Arabic, love music and never forget you come from a long line of truth seekers, lovers and warriors.

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Location: Sparks, NV

Re: Getting carded on the playa

Post by MissNev » Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:48 pm

This Woman and I have been running Livers End for 12? or 13? years, so her responses are our policy. We've never been hassled, but we have the occasional law enforcement stop by. It's not a big deal and no one complains. We will be posting a "No Minors" sign.
Proprietor and Mixologist for The Liver's End

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