The Yahoo Factor: Close the Gates Early

Questions, answers, tips & tricks for newbies and veterans alike
Dusty Nipplz
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The Yahoo Factor: Close the Gates Early

Post by Dusty Nipplz » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:19 am

This was my 4th burn, and I hope it won't be my last, because with each burn, the Yahoo Factor effects my experience more and more. It's not that the factor exists - I expect it, rather it's that it doesn't seem to be addressed by the BRC organization or the community at large. Each year, I know of more and more veteran burners who choose not to attend because of the Yahoo Factor. So if attendance is up, but there are fewer veterans, it would seem we're moving in a direction where the Yahoo's will outnumber the burners. I hear complaints, but I don't see anything being done about it. Complaints like...

Yahoo's on bikes with no lights, or worse yet, thinking that a glow necklace hanging from their back gives them the right of way to zoom over people in a primarily pedestrian city.

Yahoo's thinking it's someone else's responsibility to clean up their moop, and that radical self expression is the only thing that matters, without any respect for the earth and community.

Yahoo's who complain about the condition of the potties, and claim no personal responsibility as they dispose of their baby wipes and beer cans down the poop chute.

As you know, the list goes on.

I value inclusiveness, welcome new participants, and take personal responsibility for educating people during the event. However, when the Spectacle of Burningman overshadows the Experience of Burningman, as citizens of BRC, we reserve the right to do what we can to maintain the integrity of that which we hold so dear.

THIS IS A REQUEST TO CLOSE THE GATES FOR ENTRY - WITH OR WITHOUT A TICKET - ON THURSDAY AT 5:00 PM.

I've seen BRC forums previously that posed the concept about closing the gates early. When did that conversation end? Let's breathe some new life into it!

Closing the gates on Thursday should provide sufficient opportunity for late arrival participants to get to BRC and set up camp. While many people may have to struggle to arrive by this time, I suspect that if they understand the reasons for the gate closure, and value the Experience of Burningman, they will find a way to get to BRC. Burners can move mountains, you know. And if you are unable to get to BRC by then, perhaps you can participate in the growing number of regional burns that are taking place. I've been to the Northeast burn and it was a wonderful experience.

As for the Yahoos who arrive at BRC before the gate closure, we, the citizens of BRC, now have an entire day at our disposal to educate them about life in BRC before the Spectacle of the Burn takes away all their sensibilities. Friday in BRC can become 'Educate the Newbies Day!'. If we do it right, maybe we can have a year where veteran burners can enjoy themselves just as much as the newbies, instead of feeling like we spent the entire weekend babysitting and trash collecting, or searching for a chill dome to avoid them.

Thanks for letting me vent. All in all, I still had a fantastic Burn this year. I'll spend tonite unpacking my bins, shaking the dust off my tutu, and reveling in feeling that is still with me, while I pull all the moop I collected out of my pockets.

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Rich
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Post by Rich » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:03 am

omfg! you are so right! people are riding bicycles! and you have decided they don't have enough light! we better close the city!

I think that your idea to close the city early is destructive and wrong. It also won't work.

A friend couldn't leave until Thursday evening, drove all night to be there Friday morning, and had to leave Sunday right after the Temple Burn. You pretty specifically said he shouldn't be there, he can go to a regional burn instead.

You didn't mean that as a personal attack on my friend, but in reality it was.

So...in that vein, I think we should close the gates just against santimonious twits who think they know what the city should be like for everyone.

Dusty Nipplz
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Post by Dusty Nipplz » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:26 am

For the record, I did not personally attack your friend, or anyone. I merely gave a voice to many people I know who are looking for a better way to deal with a growing problem in BRC - one that risks BRC's very existence. You did, however, persoanally attack me which I believe was uncalled for. It was not I who decided people didn't have enough light on their bikes, or that people should be more responsible about controlling their own moop, it was the BRC survival guide. If you don't like the idea of closing the gates early, perhaps you can offer a better alternative.

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Rich
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Post by Rich » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:37 am

You want my friend out of the city. That is an attack. Sorry, but you are the problem, not the yahoos.

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zeigen
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Post by zeigen » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:00 pm

Rich -- just chill out, k?

I think Dusty's idea has some merits, but ultimately won't work. Too many of us have friends who, like Rich's friend, are experienced non-Yahoo burners and who want to attend, say, Friday, Saturday, Sunday & Monday and can't get there by Thursday for personal reasons. They shouldn't be excluded.

There are a lot of Yahoos, true, but I think education is the only way.

I took responsibility to call out to people riding at night with no lights, and had some cheap spare glow I gave to some who were riding around with absolutely nothing.

I took responsibility to call out to Yahoos at the potties who I saw dropping trash.

etc.

If we all take responsibility to communicate, the situation gets better. If we don't, it get's worse. I think it's a community issue. Let's brainstorm. I think the sliding scale ticket price is a good move, I think the communication in the survival guide is good, I like the signs on the road in, and the speeches from the greeters, and the signs on the potties. How else can we spread the word? Maybe the ticket checkers at the gates could also check for lights on bikes, and impound bikes with no lights. But that seems to harsh. I guess we have to identify Yahoo problems individually and work out individual solutions.

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Rich
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Post by Rich » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:21 pm

We have problems, so create more rules!

Actually, we don't necesarily even have problems. We have rather weak personal reports that there are problems, followed by a really poorly thought out request that we make more rules to fundamentally change the nature of the event.

Hmmm. That doesn't sound like the BRC I live in.

We could close the gates early, and then seize all bikes without lights (never mind that I use my headlamp for light, rather then a light mounted on the bike).

The thought that you both respond to these 'problems' by suggesting more fricking rules makes me ill. Especially since these rules are so poorly thought out, and would have such a negative impact on real people who I know and care about!

You _may_ not mean it as a 'personal' attack, but truly, the act of suggesting rules that _will_ hurt my friends must be interpreted as a personal attack!

You observe 'yahoos' who annoy you, and so request that my friends be banned from the event.

And yes, that is _exactly_ what is being proposed. The sanctimonious attitude that they will be okay with the change in rules since it will help _your_ idea of what our community is makes me barf!

Don't break my community to fix a 'problem' that isn't really a problem!

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sator
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Post by sator » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:29 pm

As a first time burner, let me assert that Newbies and Yahoos are not co-extensive classes. Yes, as a Newbie I made the mistake of bringing two-ply toilet paper. But also, as a non-Yahoo, I always separated the plies while squatting in the port-a-potty. Thus a single roll of toilet paper lasted me twice as long. And yes, I spent two hours wandering the playa looking for moop.

It seems to me a sliding-scale fee structure is the best way to keep the yahoos at a minimum. But rather than keying the scale to when the ticket is purchased, key it to when the ticket is used. The longer a person will stay on the playa, the less she or he should pay. Enter Monday, $150; Tuesday, $175; Wednesday, $200, Thursday, $250, Friday $350.

Obviously this will harm those sincere burners are unable to take off an entire week from work. Anecdotally, one can always point to someone who is unfortunately wronged by every rule. Nevertheless, this scheme will also deter those yahoos who only want to come for a weekend of reveling, without any sincere interest in the formation of a temporary community founded in generosity and the tolerant acceptance of others' fantasies.

Dusty Nipplz
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Post by Dusty Nipplz » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:44 pm

Thank you for the constructive input. I like the idea of a sliding scale based on how long you stay. You're right too that every rule is bound to hurt someone, but hopefully the rule serves an important enough purpose that makes it feel at least fair. And I apologize for the implication that all newbies are not good citizens... I know that's not the case. Thanks for splitting your 2 ply! I also appreciate personal ownership over educating people that perhaps haven't been in BRC long enough to learn thru osmosis. I guess I'm just looking for a way where I can spend less time feeling responsible for educating people and more time participating in all that BRC has to offer.

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:57 pm

I thought I knew what a yahoo was, what they looked like, when they arrived. This year I got an education.

Neighbors had a band playing on their stage. Many of their patrons thought it AOK to dump their empty cups, butts, etc., back behind our installation. Saw a guy attempt to do this no more than 10 feet in front of me. He looked quite 'burny'. I told him not to leave his plastic cup in my camp. He whined like a baby at me 'Come on, man, like, where am I going to put it. Like, come on, just let me leave it here. Come on, like, I love this band. Like, come on, I don't want to miss the set just to find some stupid garbage can.'

PACK IT OUT MUTHERFUCKER
and if you aren't going to pack it out, at least moop the camp you are fucking patronizing, not their poor neighbors who want nothing to do with your punk ass.
call me baby

Dusty Nipplz
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Post by Dusty Nipplz » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:02 pm

Bummer. Point well taken.

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Post by jbelson » Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:17 pm

I think that those that think they are "burnier than thou" and somehow better than someone who is experiencing the event for the first time should be limited. Maybe not open the gates untill thurs. @ 6pm to keep out the self rightous would be a good idea. Maybe they are the true "yahoo". Maybe once you reach veteran status you should be forced to take time off because you've become hyper-critical and concerned with everyone else's actions and thinking you have "the right" to make yourself more important than others.
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dig
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Post by dig » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:02 pm

stuart wrote:...
Neighbors had a band playing on their stage. Many of their patrons thought it AOK to dump their empty cups, butts, etc., back behind our installation.....
I was a part of that neighboring camp and was really bummed with that. After every act finished, I felt like I was on work-release at a Bill Graham event. The other thing I found interesting was how those same people thought barriers were for keeping out the other people, not them. I guess disrespect runs deep.

You guys were great neighbors, and I apologize for our visitors. Next year I will make it a point to visit more with my neighbors to find out what we can do to minimize any negative affects.



dig

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stuart
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Post by stuart » Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:15 pm

no worries man. I am sure some of our patrons did the same shitty thing to you guys. It bums me out but I guess it is just a part of being on the esplanade.
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shitmouse
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Post by shitmouse » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:01 pm

closing the gates at 5:00 p.m. probably wouldn't work well. the yahoos would just show up earlier. -(maybe it's good they show up late, early in the week is the best time anyway).

and hey to KSVERT!! you guys rock!
hi to Aieda, and the mermen!
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robbidobbs
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Post by robbidobbs » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:06 pm

Closing the Gate at 5pm Thursday is a moot point. It's dead out there by Thurs afternoon. Go out to Gate and wave a protest sign or something. The pirates at the Gate would be entertained, as they'll be the only ones there.

I have YET to read the Survival Guide, and I've been to 6 burns. Face it, you're not going to change the world thru print matter.
There was a 50% newbie population this year, and if this trend continues, all vets will need to put in overtime to educate the masses. I educate mass quantities about excremental correctness as a function of my job out there. Feel free to come up with a clever way to educate, rather than bitch to us.

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zeigen
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Post by zeigen » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:15 pm

Rich wrote:Don't break my community to fix a 'problem' that isn't really a problem!
Gee, didn't realize this community was yours and yours alone. Quite possessive of you. You're overreacting. No one is forcing rules down your throat; instead we're discussing how we can limit the impact of certain problems.

You don't think that there are problems? If you really think everything went 100% perfectly then I'm afraid your head is really deep in the playa.

Are you denying that people are riding at night with no lights, and they are getting hurt, and even worse, hurting other people by riding into them? I saw this firsthand. I'm sure most people reading this can attest that they saw people getting hurt.

Are you denying that there is trash in the potties? And that Johnny On The Spot had to deal with all kinds of shitty messes, each and every day out there? Robbidobbs can tell you firsthand what kind of junky trash people thought was ok to put in the potties.

The only answer is to take the time to educate people firsthand. If you see someone doing something that only a Yahoo would do, take them aside, say hi, shake their hand, give 'em a nice drink, and tell them what's what.

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Post by kazos » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:30 pm

The wonderful thing about this silly little experimental society that we have going is that despite the philosophy of freedom and self-expression, we find ourselves wanting more rules so that we can enjoy our freedoms more. A guy dumping his trash on the ground in my camp does not allow me the freedom of having a safe and clean home. If we all left moop on the playa, Burning Man would not be allowed back next year. If we toss enough beer bottles into the potties, the event could be shut down before the Man even gets burned. It's that simple. And y'know what? I actually think that some people don't give a flying fuck whether the festival happens next year or not. Andhere are people who are so bitter about having to pay money for a ticket that they think everyone else is there to do all their clean-up.

How do we deal with yahoos, assholes, saboteurs? Good question. I was talking with a guy on the edge of his camp one pleasant afternoon last Friday, and along comes a middle-aged frat boy down the street, pausing briefly to down the last of his Budweiser and then firmly plant the can right down in the middle of the street. Several people glared at him, some said "what the fuck!" and then my buddy and I proceeded to grumble about what assholes some people are. The beer can was still in the middle of the street, and the ex-football player with the beer gut lumbered lumbered off proudly into the crowds. Later on, the subject came up in conversation with others and we discussed what should have been the most appropriate response. Some thought confrontation, some thought reporting the guy, some thought more creative and fun approaches would have made a bigger impact. Something like stalking the guy and talking gibberish to him while waving the can around.

I agree with DustyNips.... The increasing yahoo factor is fundamentally changing the mood at Burning Man. I agree with Rich (even though I wish he would take on a more civil tone in this conversation), that stringent rules like shutting the gates early would possibly keep out too many people who absolutely can't be there earlier. And besides, BMorg needs (?) to make every dollar possible to recoupe operating costs. And I agree with jbelson too, as I am also nearly as equally annoyed by the "burnier-than-thou" types as I am by those who are bent on only taking and never giving.

And so the discussions/debates continue on how we can be proactive in making the week in the desert before Labor Day always more generous, spontaneous, fun, silly, respectful, and civil. And how to take on this responsibility without being condescending OR mean-spirited....

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Post by jbelson » Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:47 pm

A good way to keep the yahoo's out is to somehow make participation in some way a requirement for entry as well as a ticket. There are those that are there to give and those that are there to take. Once you give, you become invested, and once your invested your more likely to be a good "burner". Now I have no idea on how or what to do to make people "act" in a way that gives to the community, but it's the takers that are the problem.
And as far as the porta potties are concerned, I dont think it's the dumb frat boy dropping his beer in there, but rather an organized effort to shut the event down by deliberate vandalism. Someone from JOTS was quite pissed on Fri. afternoon while pumping out the potties ssaying that it was not random vandalism, but that a pattern existed.
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Post by rubyredalys » Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:07 pm

my first year as a burner noob was...interesting.

i did notice the garbage in the jots...esp tampon wrappers. fucking gross ladies. i specifically planned not to have a period that week to stop that hell. and if you have birth control you can too! or a double sealed ziplock. sheesh.

also a pair of boxers one early am. cute.

first day on the playa (sunday) i was dealing with my broken bag which was carrying ice.

yahoos on a parked art car yelled down to me to show my tits. i was wearing a bikini top. FIRST DAY. no escaping them, they do arrive when it starts.

after telling them the top revealed quite enough, they said "come on....is that your final answer?" w t f?

sweet lord i am glad i didn't run into them later that week when i was topless.

i think the increase on price per day is not a bad idea though. honestly i feel that if i would have came on thurs i would have missed every great bonding moment that led up to the weekend.

i will return and try to educate new and yahoo as a year 2 burner.
best of luck.
"what you mean there ain't no grits?"

now with more vitamin delish!

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Rich
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Post by Rich » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:09 pm

zeigen wrote:
You're overreacting. No one is forcing rules down your throat; instead we're discussing how we can limit the impact of certain problems.
What? The proposal is to close the event on Thursday. This sure sounds like 'forcing a rule down my throat.' It is an idiotic proposal that needs to be shot and buried quickly. It will keep out 'legitimate' burners, and not have any effect on the problem.
You don't think that there are problems? If you really think everything went 100% perfectly then I'm afraid your head is really deep in the playa.
Hmmm...there are deep logical fallacies implicit in your messages. You seem to think that creating more rules is the answer.
Are you denying that people are riding at night with no lights, and they are getting hurt, and even worse, hurting other people by riding into them? I saw this firsthand. I'm sure most people reading this can attest that they saw people getting hurt.
OMFG! I didn't realize that PEOPLE ARE RIDING WITH NO LIGHTS!!! That changes EVERYTHING! Wait, no it doesn't. It changes nothing. Read the back of your ticket. Take responsibility for yourself, and stop advocating for restrictive rules to solve non-problems.

Hint: there are no 'rules' about riding with lights. It is probably a good idea, so you don't get run over and all, but actually it is a lot of fun to blast through the playa with no lights. Life is risk. Life on the playa is risky.
Are you denying that there is trash in the potties? ...
And closing the gates on Thursday will fix that? What about all that trash in the potties on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday?
The only answer is to take the time to educate people firsthand. If you see someone doing something that only a Yahoo would do, take them aside, say hi, shake their hand, give 'em a nice drink, and tell them what's what.
And creating new rules is going to help educate people? Perhaps you came late to the thread and forgot to read the first post. This thread is about an insane quest to close the gates on Thursday.

It appears to have morphed into a quest to ban unlit bicycles as well. Wait, how about banning rebar? And alcohol. Lots of alcohol related yahoo behavior. And heck, people won't mind banning alcohol when they realize that there is a 'good' reason for it.

Please think....more rules are not the answer.

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PetsUntilEaten
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Post by PetsUntilEaten » Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:43 pm

This touches on something I dealt with alot this year.

Whereas I noticed less "yahoo" behavior - I found my camp/village mates pointing out "weekend warriors" and "yahoos" who were doing nothing more than drinking beer and wearing logo'd shirts. So I spent less time with those people the I felt were getting "burnier than thou" cuz reverse snobbery is just as obnoxious. I choose who I spend time with and fix problems as they arise - like throwing a beer bottle back at a guy who tried to put it in our trash can. (Yes I almost hit his head. I choose to teach via shock therapy. You want a safe burn - don't cross me.)

Less protectionism - more subversive inclusiveness.

Ditto on not being able to pick out who's going to behave well by looks alone.

I agree that negitive things happen on th eplaya - but there is an equal amount of people just looking for something external to blame & bitch about. Yahoo-ism is an us verses them argument that is prone to just such self made agony. I know that when my head is off I bring it on myself - I take it in. This year I learned not to take on problems that don't exist - and to deal with the real problems in front of me full on.

I chose to engage in dangerous behavior constantly & with a song in my heart - since when is should Burningman be a safe, exclusive cool kids club?

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zeigen
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Post by zeigen » Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:53 pm

What? The proposal is to close the event on Thursday
Rich, I'm trying to remain calm, but your tone is starting to infuriate me. And not just me -- everyone here has told you to calm down. You do realize that the talk in this thread won't actually change the rules, right? We're just chatting here.

Now, please go back and read my first post where I AGREE WITH YOU that closing the gates on Thursday is a bad idea. Like every other thread on this e-playa, it's drifted, and now we're talking about Yahoos in general. Try to keep up. We just talking about what things we can be done to help limit problems.

You, you seem to be advocating complete and utter anarchy. You love this community right? Then stop saying crazy things and please help us calmly and rationally discuss how we can increase the safety and promote the leave no trace ethic -- the things that are ALREADY listed in the Survival Guide as rules.

Me, I'm advocating speech: talking to people, letting them know about what the event's expectations are. If it was 50% new folks in 2004, then that means it's also 50% folks who have been to one or more previous burns. So if every experienced person took one new person under their wing to help them out with some of the things that they need to know, we'd be doing okay.

("Don't leave trash man, that's not cool -- need a garbage bag? Here you are!")

("Woah, sweetie, you're totally unlit and it's pitch black out here. I almost ran you over! Here's a glow stick, please put it around your neck. Do you have a light for that bike? Better bring one next year!")

You keep saying, "Read the back of the ticket." I'd like you to do the same. Here's a handy one for you:

http://mindstation.com/burn/burn2k3/ima ... ck_jpg.jpg

Let's start with "This is a LEAVE NO TRACE, pack it in, Pack it OUT event." Did you spend two hours cleaning up the playa? Do you think everyone did? That's on the back of the ticket. And that's one of the things we're talking about here.

It's already a rule. No one is shoving a new rule down your throat. Instead, please contribute to the conversation by suggesting how you think we can limit the problems -- increase safety, decrease trash.

Thanks man!

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Rich
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Post by Rich » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:01 am

Rich, I'm trying to remain calm, but your tone is starting to infuriate me. And not just me -- everyone here has told you to calm down. You do realize that the talk in this thread won't actually change the rules, right? We're just chatting here.


Cool! I am infuriating you! Good! Now you know how it feels to be on the other side. Many things are being proposed that are _stupid_. And _your_ tone to me was disgusting.

'Everyone' has told me to calm down? Calm down? What the fuck is that? This is a discussion thread. You want to control how discussion occurs as well? Are you folks total control freaks? I mean, christ on a stick! This thread is all 'change the rules, kick people out, oh, that bike doesn't have a light you better impound it, oh, and change how you communicate on a forum.'

Deal with it. You are responsible for your own reality. Changing the rules doesn't change that. Chanting 'topic drift' doesn't change that.

_You_ and others on this thread need to first think 'how can what I do make things better in the ways I want them to be.' And then you need to think 'and how will what I do make things worse for others.'

Neither step has occured in this thread.

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Post by Dusty Nipplz » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:03 am

1) thanks for letting me put an idea out there and use it as an opportunity to toss around thoughts and feelings, and better ways to deal with something that I was concerned about. Obviously, this was just a thought provoker and I full well knew it wouldn’t go anywhere. As I continue to decompress, I’ll try to focus on and remember the things I love most about BRC, and let the rest fade.

2) thanks for helping me see that I did take a condescending tone, which I did not intend, and please accept my apologies. I never meant to imply the yahoo factor applied to anyone who looked a certain way, arrived at a certain time, or achieved any type of status. Rather I was working on the principle that the more time you spend in BRC, the more inclinded a person might be to participate in a constructive manner. I realize my definition of constructive may be very different from someone else’s.

3) thanks too for the reminder that if someone wants to zoom across the playa, unlit in the dark, and they impale themselves on some rebar or nice sharp art installation, or they run over a passed out burner and crack their skull, it’s okay for me to keep on walking. Whew, takes a load off my mind.

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zeigen
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Post by zeigen » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:31 am

Rich,

The only thing I'm advocating is talking to people who do stupid things (like drop trash in the potties, or drive around at night with no lights -- endangering MY safety and my friend's safety). Are you seriously telling me I shouldn't do that?

I don't know where you get the idea I'm proposing stupid rules. The impound the bikes thing I withdrew in the same post as I suggested it. You're acting like a crazed loon who's flying off the handle.

"Oh good god! That's _stupid_. Now you're telling me not to fly off the handle! Well I won't do it! It's my right to fly off the handle! I can be a crazed loon if I want to beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee."

When you're ready to have a calm discussion please let me know.

Bye.

--Z.

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zeigen
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Post by zeigen » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:33 am

Oh, and by your silence on the trash issue I take it that you DIDN'T spend the required two hours picking up trash? Thought so.

I bet you left tons of moop. I bet you didn't clean up even your own camp. I bet you're the type of person who left bottles and cups all over the playa. Am I right? Sorry if I'm wrong. I'd be happy if I'm wrong. Please tell me I'm wrong.

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Post by HughMungus » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:22 am

I'd say at least close the gates by Friday at midnight. If you're only coming for Saturday/Sunday then you're not really coming to be part of the community, anyway, and we don't need you.

What surprised me was how easy it is to get in on Sunday. We basically just drove right in without being questioned much. That's not good from a security standpoint.

Wednesday
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Post by Wednesday » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:58 pm

Unfortunately, because I am grad student classes always start one or two weeks before Burning Man. Being a serious student, I cannot miss classes. I would love to be out there for the whole week, but can never leave until after my last class on Thursday. Since I live in Reno, I usually get there Thursday night, and I stay till Monday. I would love love love to stay all week but I just can't. Last year I actually went home Sunday to bring people to the airport, then came back Sunday night after the Temple Burn just becuase I love being there so much. Maybe one year I hopefully can get there for the whole week. Anyways, I find people coming for the weekend bring a lot of supplies that a lot of people who have been camping from the beginning have run out of. It's nice to be able to give people who have been camped out for a week food, or gatoraid, or baby wipes, lol.

Tay
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Post by Tay » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:13 pm

I don't really think closing the gate is realistic, though it's a nice idea. And I think the idea of a sliding pay scale might be too hard to impliment. Unfortunately I think the only way to rid BRC of the yahoos and frat boys is to stop allowing in the PRESS. I can't tell you how many calls I've gotten in the last three days from family and friends who "saw it on CNN, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal or Wild On (E channel.) " I mean where do you think they hear about this?

I had an interesting experience this year in that some of us in camp made it a point to say, "hello," to everyone who passed by and invite people in to sit and be Lazy Asses with us. Early in the week we got almost 100% response back, either a hello or wave or they'd come and sit. Toward the end of the week the response went down to 50% - some people would just stare at us like we were either nuts or caged monkeys. It didn't ruin my experience but it did bum me out a bit. By Saturday we'd basically learned that on average saying "hi," to someone in cargo shorts and a t-shirt, who didn't have a thick layer of dust on them was like saying, "hi" to a brick wall.

oddconvergence
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Post by oddconvergence » Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:22 am

Burning Man LLC, the business, would be at odds with closing the gates too early as a company needs to make money or at the very least cover expenses.

And salaries for the officers could be a part of those expenses.

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