Playa Lung ??!!??!!!???

Questions, answers, tips & tricks for newbies and veterans alike
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ygmir
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Postby ygmir » Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:31 am

it's the chem trails........
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phil
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Re: ummm

Postby phil » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:56 am

yamaz wrote:probably about 4 or 5 years, average 4 cigs a day...

Asking people here whether you've got valley fever or some other disease is pointless. Seriously. You need a medical examination and some tests to rule out lung cancer, TB, gopher fever, or whatever.

If you can't afford to go to a doctor, write your congressperson and senators and ask why you don't have affordable health insurance with your existing conditions. Tell 'em you want the public option.

If you're concerned about your health, go to a doctor. Nobody here can possibly know what, if anything, you've got.

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Postby Ugly Dougly » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:01 am

You're so smooth, Phil. ;)

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Re: Asthma with no problems ever

Postby mudpuppy000 » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:50 pm

[quote="PantyMechanix"]I know it kinda strange, because I know so many people that have had Playa Lung problems as well as sickness because their pores get clogged with the shit, but I have asthma and have had it bad all my life. I go out to the playa and never have an attack. I don't wear a mask, but shower regularly. Maybe it's the air and lack of allergens. I never even have to use my inhaler, even if I smoke. Maybe I should bring some playa home in a back, it even doubles as hairgel.[/quote]

I have asthma too, and didn't have any issues out there either. I think it was the lack of pollen for me. That usually drives me nuts.

I was pretty worried about it so I was wearing white masks most of the week as well as a respirator that I dug out for the saturday dust storm. The respirator was kind of uncomfortable, but I couldn't believe how sweet it made the air taste. :)

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Postby emergenttech » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:17 am

When I first went out to BM. I had no idea that the sand was so fine and could cause a long term health issue. I have been in the Sahara without such issues as its grains of sand of large dimension. This being my first time and everything I really had to idea, if I did, I would not have attended.

Quite frankly there is no decent information about the type of dust present on the BM website and nor are the adequate warnings about the dangers of fine < PM10 particles.

So now I find myself back at home petrified over what I have done to my body inhaling crystalline silica in for 7 days. It would seem for my research that RCS (repairable crystalline silica) is implicated not just in the silicosis but also in lung cancer. The jury has not reached a complete verdict on this...but evidence is beginning to stack up.

I'm a young guy so I am absolutely terrified about suffering from lung cancer or silicosis now as a result of my week @ BM. Typically lung conditions have long latencies and its a hell of an anxious wait. I've been having slightly more laboured breathing since coming back and have never quite recovered. Right now I am seeing the doctor again to discuss potential problems resulting from BM. I'm getting really anxious and depressed about the consequences of the dust. I'm not one of those people who takes risks lightly and try to keep healthy and safe as best as possible. I have some terrible days in agony and stress because of going to BM. And I wore a mask for much of it, but the dust is everywhere from RV to tent and on clothes.

I did research to see if Silica is implicated in mesothelioma, but this appears to be uniquely related to asbestos. The worry with mesothelioma is that it may NOT be strongly dose dependent and hence could occur after light exposures and is frequently documented to do so after a time lag of up to 50 years. I have seen the tragedy of mesothelioma first hand from these light exposures in family friends. So far silica seems implicted in mainly silicosis and lung cancer, much like asbestos but as yet without the terrible wild-card of mesothelioma...I can only hope.

Locals at Owens dry lake are reported to suffer higher morbidity resulting from dust storms, which is similar in environment to that at BRC. So may be useful as a research study.

All these points can be googled or searched for or I'll try and post back requests for articles and supporting evidence.

In summary I am doing what I can to allay fears on my part, but I'm getting a nasty feeling that this trip is going to come back to haunt me...for the rest of my life. I will always fear the consequences of those 7 days in the playa dust.

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Postby emergenttech » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:41 am

I just thought I had better quote this:

"This leaves open the issue of dose-risk relation and pathogenic mechanisms and supports the conclusion that the carcinogenic role of silica per se in absence of silicosis is still unclear."

from:

Occupational silica exposure and lung cancer risk: a review of epidemiological studies 1996-2005.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:26 am

Being a local involves a hell of a lot more exposure than a single week does. I suggest you relax a bit and see if that helps your breathing.
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Postby emergenttech » Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:29 am

Do you know the incidence of silicosis or lung cancer amongst the local populous? As I said Owens lake playa causes vast amount of dust problems to the local residents - many of whom are documented to suffer from higher mortality. Whats to say that attending BM is much different from being a local - given the very close proximity to the playa.

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Postby phil » Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:55 am

> Quite frankly there is no decent information about the type of dust
> present on the BM website

Maybe I can put your mind at rest: There is no dust present on the BM Web site.

Sleep tight, hon. Don't let the bedbugs bite.

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Postby emergenttech » Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:20 am

[quote="phil"]> Quite frankly there is no decent information about the type of dust
> present on the BM website

Maybe I can put your mind at rest: There is no dust present on the BM Web site.

Sleep tight, hon. Don't let the bedbugs bite.[/quote]

What does that mean?

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Postby Elderberry » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:16 pm

It means quit your worrying and belly-aching. Life is for living and living is sometimes risky. It's better to live your life to the fullest and enjoy, rather than worrying about all of life's consequences. No regrets!

If you are worrying about things like this now, I hate to see what you will be like at 50--locked in your air-conditioned room, afraid to go outside and ordering everything from the internet.

Sad, really sad.

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Postby Oldguy » Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:42 pm

Flashing on Howard Hughes penthouse, and Howie Mondell's fist bump. Is your name Howard? Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Postby Sensei » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:25 pm

emergenttech wrote:I'm a young guy so I am absolutely terrified about suffering from lung cancer or silicosis now as a result of my week @ BM.


emergenttech wrote:... but I'm getting a nasty feeling that this trip is going to come back to haunt me...for the rest of my life. I will always fear the consequences of those 7 days in the playa dust.


Oh for fuck's sake, man up already! Jesus, what a pussy.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:42 pm

I know nothing of the health status of people in Empire, Gerlach, otherwise living near the Blcak Rock Desert, or near other playas. It's just a week. We are not camping on asbestos. We're not potters or glassmakers breathing dust day in day for years and developing silicosis. My husband was one of the comparative few who suffered noticiably from the dust--as far as I know he still holds the record for helicopter evacuations from the playa--but it's not what killed him.
Go or don't go. Beyond that I don't know what to say. I don't think that there is an easy clear answer for you. You get to weigh the risks and benefits for your ownself. The regionals, for the most part, are not held on land that's problematic in that way. If yo don't want to go to the event, the world's filled all sorts of other wonders.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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Postby Elderberry » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:43 pm

And another after-thought--this is an event held on federal land and issued a permit by the federal government. Would they issue a permit to hold an event to be attended by 50,000 people if it were a known hazzard area?

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Postby Sensei » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:54 pm

emergenttech wrote:I will always fear the consequences of those 7 days in the playa dust.


I'm picturing Drama Queen holding the back of his hand to his forehead as he says this. Someone better get some smelling salts before Mary passes out.

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Postby Bob » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:58 pm

If the dust doesn't kill you, the fluoride in the water trucks will.
Amazing desert structures & stuff: http://sites.google.com/site/potatotrap/

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Postby mdmf007 » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:46 pm

I spend 2 months a year on playa with crews - and no complaints. Some people are more susceptible to dust than others.

The locals dont seem to be dropping dead or dragging O2 cylinders around. perhaps your experience is a personal one. As far as the worry aspect, go get a professional opinion do the MRI thing get a broncoscopy -knowing will certainly alleviate the stress your putting on yourself.

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Postby Elderberry » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:46 pm

Sensei wrote:
emergenttech wrote:I will always fear the consequences of those 7 days in the playa dust.


I'm picturing Drama Queen holding the back of his hand to his forehead as he says this. Someone better get some smelling salts before Mary passes out.


Just think of the stories that line might evoke if you didn't read anything that came before it.

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:50 am

Thing I'm concerned about is that there is growing worry about silica being the next "asbestos". Once inhaled it cannot be cleared from the lungs...stays it there irrating your lungs permanently. So its not just a temporary thing - how can it be good to have mineral dust in yr lung of any quantity.

Oh and if I did know that the sand was so fine I certainly would have not gone. Perhaps the government never mentions anything because they make money from the event. Since when have governments been totally truthful about anything?

@theCryptofishist, Did your husband die from a breathing complications?

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:15 am

I quote:

There are three types of Silicosis; simple chronic silicosis, accelerated silicosis and acute silicosis. Simple chronic silicosis causes from long term exposure to silica dust, usually over a period of more than 20 years. Accelerated silicosis happens after exposure to larger amounts of silica over a shorter period of time, usually 5 - 15 years. Symptoms of silicosis progress faster in accelerated silicosis.

Acute silicosis results from short-term exposure to very large amounts of silica. The lungs become very inflamed and may fill with fluid, causing severe shortness of breath and low blood oxygen levels.

----------------------

Are not participants at high risk from almost all categories...even acute because the dust levels are so high.

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:54 am

A good article on risks from silica:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1740484/

Its free to download too.

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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:33 am

maybe just don't inhale if you go out there again?..........

Something is going to kill us all
and, when it does, there will have been something you could have done to avoid that particular issue.
perhaps, then, all we do is choose the mechanism of our demise, but, not its eventuality.

I might also suggest cryogenic suspension.......do it now while you're still good looking......and, come back when humans become immortal......

or, maybe you'll already be there.......
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Postby Elderberry » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:29 am

yup emergenttech, I'm pretty sure you are going to die now. a long painful death as the playa dust slowly eats at your lung tissue. to bad there is nothing you can do, once exposed. Hopefully you have gotten your personal effects in order and your will written and your medical insurance paid (assuming this is not now a pre-existing conditioin); oh and hospice care should also be arranged, as dying alone with playa-lung is not a good idea.

too bad you didn't investigate more thoroughly prior to going to burning man, it might have saved you months of agony.

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Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:42 am

My point is that the effects of silica are fairly well known. It's not likely that there's something else there that hasn't been active until now. I'd suggest OSHA or a Material Data Safety Sheet on silicon to get a better idea. I simply think that you're trying to put a tempest in our tea pot.

Yes, you could die of the same thing that killed Scott, being an emt.
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Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

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ygmir
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Postby ygmir » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:44 am

is there much silica present in playa dust? I thought it was mostly gypsum and some other salts.......
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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:55 am

Crystalline silica makes up about 40% of the playa. So its a very large fraction. Silica is a known irritant and carcinogen...

For the most part my research before did not bring up anything about the size of the particles being very fine and repairable. This is not made clear anywhere and only post event trawling has made this apparent.

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Postby emergenttech » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:56 am

@theCryptofishist what is an EMT? Was it a respiratory illness that he suffered from?

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Postby AKAparttime » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:18 am

EMT ~Emerence Medical Technician.

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Postby AKAparttime » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:37 am

emergenttech wrote:I just thought I had better quote this:

"This leaves open the issue of dose-risk relation and pathogenic mechanisms and supports the conclusion that the carcinogenic role of silica per se in absence of silicosis is still unclear."

from:

Occupational silica exposure and lung cancer risk: a review of epidemiological studies 1996-2005.



~ Now think about this, Radon Daughter fallout.

-Lead-210- 214
-Bismuth-210 -214
-Polonium-210 -214
Lot's of decomposing granite in the mountains surrounding the Black Rock Desert.

We are doomed.....


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