Straightedge on the Playa?

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Meep
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Straightedge on the Playa?

Post by Meep » Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:24 pm

I hope this question doesn't make me seem pretentious or icky in any way!

Is there a camp or village that is completely poison-free? If not, what would the interest level be for having a place that was completely no smoking/no drinking/no recreationals? If one exists, I'd like to make contact with them for next year, and if one does not... *gulp*... maybe one could get started?

I'm not a weenie about people who enjoy smoking/drinking/whatever; I don't make that decision for others. Just looking to see if there are any other 'edgers out there that might want to plop together in a friendly, dusty heap and have fun!

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:00 pm

and if one does not... *gulp*... maybe one could get started?
Looks like you have around three hundred and fifty something days to put one together. Seems like a goodly amount of time to do it your way. Start planning now and you'll probably sail right in with little or no problem....
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Meep
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Post by Meep » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:02 pm

I know, but... but I'm scared to dive in and do anything that big for my Very First Burning Man! If it turns out that there actually isn't any kind of straightedge camp... I'll probably make there be one and do the best I can. But I don't want to duplicate effort, or make it seem like I'm trying to steal anyone's idea.

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AntiM
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Post by AntiM » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Harrump says Camp Curmudgeon. I've never camped with smokers or stoners (is that un-pc now?) although there's always been a bit of sipping, no feral drunktardiness in our camp at any time. That's just the people I know and love and hang out with, odd codgers of all ages.

PLenty of what you seek (or not as may be) if you ask, but why tack on the edger thing as if they were the only people on the planet who don't indulge? That's narrow, no?

Sorry, but the few edgers I know are scary, scary kids who stray far too closely into white supremist philosophy and vegan eco-terrorism. No personal attack there, just reacting from my limited personal experience. You'll probably tell me they aren't true straightedgers anyway.

I'm quite certain you can arrange a camp that was free of whatever doesn't float yer boat.

Or camp with Mormons.

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Post by Meep » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:16 pm

Ooo, interesting subject and I don't at all blame you for those notions.. but, like so many other things, it's the vocal and annoying few that have kind of screwed things up for the quieter, mellower majority.

Originally... straightedge didn't include Veganism and sure as heck had nothing to do with racialism/White Supemacy/boneheadism. It was originally a promise to self to avoid doing things that were damaging, because so many people in the punk/goth scene were destroying themselves. The shift into... violent horseshit seems to have started in Salt Lake City in about the mid 90's.

I say straightedge because, for me, it's the quickest way to get across my meaning: no substances. The worst that ever follows is maybe a little explanation like what I gave above.

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Badger
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Post by Badger » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:17 pm

I know, but... but I'm scared to dive in and do anything that big for my Very First Burning Man! If it turns out that there actually isn't any kind of straightedge camp... I'll probably make there be one and do the best I can. But I don't want to duplicate effort, or make it seem like I'm trying to steal anyone's idea.
Why even be attached to the results? If you see a need that you'd like to see filled then I for one say go for it. What the hell difference does it make what others have to say about your efforts? A year away gives you PLENTY of time to resolve (and burn) those perceived barriers that'd keep you from doing what you want to do. As silly as it seems the oft repeated line of being the change you want to see appears to be quite appropriate in this situation. Maybe stop (or pull back) from dwelling on those things you see as potential roadblocks and make your own bypass.
Desert dogs drink deep.

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Meep
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Post by Meep » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:22 pm

::pets the badger!::

You make good points.. I'll give it a little time and see if anyone pops up and goes 'Hey, the Blerbtyfnaggle Camp is substance-free'... and, if not, I'll just... squinch my eyes shut and dive on in!

One thing I know: the money most people spend on booze can be spent on making a LOT of homemade beef/venison jerky... and I am very, very good at making the above! That'd be a fun thing to gift!

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Post by AntiM » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:30 pm

The shift into... violent horseshit seems to have started in Salt Lake City in about the mid 90's.
See? I live in Ogden, where they're even worse than in Salt Lake.

Hope you have a grand camp next year!

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Post by Meep » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:35 pm

Yuck!! I'm so sorry they're like that. I promise you, though... there are many, many moderates. I wish the hardliners would go crawl under a rock and have a wonderful time listening to Earth Crisis... far, far away from where they can damage the reputation of everyone else who wears X's on their hands!

Maybe you'll stop by... whatever camp happens! I'll feed ya or something. ^.^

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Post by Tiahaar » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:41 am

AntiM wrote: Or camp with Mormons.
Heeheesnickerhoo...ahem...now that, (because of my upbringing) is a funny thought! Thank you. Actually that's what got me started in the drug/smoke/alcohol free lifestyle though now its just for good health and safety. My (Mormon) family is still quite mortified about BurningMan especially since 2005 will be year three for me, try as I do to show them the great positives of a commerce-free LNT arts festival. I also assure them I always wear sunscreen when naked : )

Dang but the "straightedge" label is news...I don't get out enough...sounds cool but hope the groups are beyond just anti-smoke/drugs/alcohol and FOR good health (exercise, good diet, yada, yada) and open mindedness. Need more of that out there.

Not a theme camp or village here, just me and a couple non-smoking no drugs/drinks friends having a blast on the playa.
Burning Man 2003-19-FO2020; Desert Carillon, HypnoHorse, Ulaume's Chimes, Iron Native, Black Rock Solar, Portal Collective, Center Camp Café Stage and Sound Tech, 747 Project
Starship Palomino

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hi

Post by Lysergic » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:44 am

Chase the rabbit down down down deep into the hole, ride the snake to the end of time.
Doubt everything. Find your own light.
--Last words of Gotama Buddha

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Meep
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Post by Meep » Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:04 am

Straightedge got started because of a Minor Threat song called, oddly enough 'Straight Edge'. It takes the name and the viewpoint of 'drugs are bad for you and a crutch, I have the straight edge'. Originally, as I said in a post before, it was 'don't drink, don't do drugs, don't smoke, don't be promiscuous'. That definition is the one I live by.

Lately, a lot of people have glued 'don't eat meat' and 'don't use caffeine or over-the-counter medications' onto the whole thing. I think that's going maybe a bit far.

Most of the other 'edgers I know do try to take care of their bodies and remain in good heaalth.

Rabbit? Snake? :shock: Where?!

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Post by Markov Chaney » Sat Sep 11, 2004 1:51 pm

Ya know, caffeine is a drug, and it's pretty damn bad for you.

As far as I'm concerned it's all about moderation.

Unfortunately my moderators seem to break down the moment I step onto the Playa. ;)

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Post by Meep » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:02 pm

I had big problems with caffeine a while back; so I stopped drinking sodas to excess and weathered through the resultant headache-from-hell. I still like the taste of cola (especially Pepsi One!), though, so I have one once in a while. Non-caffeine sodas just don't taste quite the same.

On the other hand... alcohol, smoking and the assorted recreationals strike me as just being a bad, bad, BAD idea for me. Again... I don't start shrieking at anyone that lights up, but I do want to have a sanctuary where I need not deal with it at all.

MY moderators break down... when I enter a fabric store!

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Post by GuinivereElise » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:03 pm

Markov Chaney wrote:Ya know, caffeine is a drug, and it's pretty damn bad for you.

As far as I'm concerned it's all about moderation.

Unfortunately my moderators seem to break down the moment I step onto the Playa. ;)
Tee hee! I saw a sign on one of my bikingexcursionadventures that read as follows:

"Everything in moderation: Including moderation"

Makes me giggle.

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Post by Meep » Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:11 pm

I agree! This is one of the big problems I have with the hardline straightedgers. They're not satisfied with being Vegan/straightedge, they want to act like bad fundamentalists and force it on everyone.

Which REALLY messes up the scene for anyone who X's their hands and just wants to be proud of living poison-free.

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Post by Laynel » Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:11 am

It sounds like a great idea, and a place where alot of burners could go for some relief, and new friends that arent on the playa just to get "altered" in any way shape or form. Go for it. I'll stop by! :D
Laynie

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Post by primate » Sun Sep 12, 2004 6:46 am

Okay, I gotta speak up and represent my hometown Hard Core Scene.
Straight Edge was originally started by Ian Mckaye of Minor Threat in the Early 80's. The Ethos of the straight edge movement was encapsulated in the song "out of step". At the Time Ian was struggling with how drugs and alcohol had destroyed the punk scene in D.C. I also suspect that he simply wanted a place to put on HC shows and was running in to trouble b/c most venues thought punks were a bunch of drugged out losers and wouldn't let them play at their venue. So by claiming to be against all that, he could convince club owners etc to let him put on shows.
Anyway long story short, a segment of the punk scene grabbed on to the ideals of that song and lo and behold Straight edge was born. The black X on the hand thing, comes from the black X's that clubs in D.C. used to put on the hands of underage kids so they would know not to serve them alcohol. The straight edge kids adopted that to show that they were choosing not to drink or do drugs.
So how did this crossover to the skinhead/racist crowd?
Well Ian Grew up in D.C. and went to school where he was one of a very few white kids. He ran into multiple problems with African Americans who took out their anger at being disenfranchised on him. So he wrote an often misinterpreted song called "guilty of being white". Unfortunately this song was picked up as a racist Anthem. Which it is not. But Sadly the damage had already been done.
As far as violence is concerned, I have never known Ian Mckaye to be a violent person. I grew up going to HC shows in D.C at the wilson Center, sacred Hearth church, 9:30 club and a host of many other now defunct clubs.
I suspect that the violence associated with straight edge may actually have been started by Ian's good friend Henry Garfield. Now known as Henry Rollins, formerly of S.O.A and most notably of Black Flag. Henry has never been too shy to throw a punch and I believe was quoted in the Book "Dance of days" as claiming to knock peoples drinks out of their hands at shows.
So that sums up todays lesson on D.C. Hardcore.
Next week we'll discuss how Fugazi started the "emo" Movement.
I came here to kick some ass and drink some Ten-high and I am almost out of Ten-high.

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Post by bullD » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:47 am

primate wrote:Okay, I gotta speak up and represent my hometown Hard Core Scene.
Straight Edge was originally started by Ian Mckaye of Minor Threat in the Early 80's. The Ethos of the straight edge movement was encapsulated in the song "out of step". At the Time Ian was struggling with how drugs and alcohol had destroyed the punk scene in D.C. I also suspect that he simply wanted a place to put on HC shows and was running in to trouble b/c most venues thought punks were a bunch of drugged out losers and wouldn't let them play at their venue. So by claiming to be against all that, he could convince club owners etc to let him put on shows.
Anyway long story short, a segment of the punk scene grabbed on to the ideals of that song and lo and behold Straight edge was born. The black X on the hand thing, comes from the black X's that clubs in D.C. used to put on the hands of underage kids so they would know not to serve them alcohol. The straight edge kids adopted that to show that they were choosing not to drink or do drugs.
So how did this crossover to the skinhead/racist crowd?
Well Ian Grew up in D.C. and went to school where he was one of a very few white kids. He ran into multiple problems with African Americans who took out their anger at being disenfranchised on him. So he wrote an often misinterpreted song called "guilty of being white". Unfortunately this song was picked up as a racist Anthem. Which it is not. But Sadly the damage had already been done.
As far as violence is concerned, I have never known Ian Mckaye to be a violent person. I grew up going to HC shows in D.C at the wilson Center, sacred Hearth church, 9:30 club and a host of many other now defunct clubs.
I suspect that the violence associated with straight edge may actually have been started by Ian's good friend Henry Garfield. Now known as Henry Rollins, formerly of S.O.A and most notably of Black Flag. Henry has never been too shy to throw a punch and I believe was quoted in the Book "Dance of days" as claiming to knock peoples drinks out of their hands at shows.
So that sums up todays lesson on D.C. Hardcore.
Next week we'll discuss how Fugazi started the "emo" Movement.
ehhh, Word!!! Still one of my favorite albums of all time.
As far as Henry Rollins goes, yes he certainly has had his moments. At a show in Reno when Black Flag was billed with Social Distortion (fukin hell, long time agao), Henry felt it necessary to fuck with the crowd, his style and I liked it. So, I started to mimik him during the show. Long story short, he jumped off the stage, grabbed me, thrashed about in the pit with me for a few, laughed, smiled, said thanks, got back on stage and continued. He was having a fucking good time!!!!

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Post by bullD » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:50 am

Oh yeah, back to the point of this thread,,, make this camp happen damnit! Don't make me force feed you happy pills otherwise,,, he he he

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Post by shitmouse » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:31 am

not trying to be a smart ass here,
but do straight edgers masterbait?

i remember Lee Ving assulting a crowd in d.c. once back in the day about abstaining from sex and masterbation. -(then throwing pockets of cash back to the show attendees. ahh, the evolution of punk.

how do cheetos fare?
-b
=-=-= \<>/ =-=-=

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Post by anticdevices » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:50 am

After the burn last year there were a couple of posts by people who were interested in going this year (2004) concerned with the drugs, sex, nudity & whatnot. There were pleanty of responses from people explaining that the reports you see of wild sex and constant substance abuse were not the norm, or even integral to the experience. I kepy joking with my wife that we should write, "A First-Timers Guide to Burning Man: How to enjoy Burning Man while being Monogomous, Substance-Free and Artisticly-untalented and still have a wildly wonderful life-changing experience".

Nonetheless, your camp idea would probably be pretty cool.
O for a Muse of fire, that would ascend
The brightest heaven of invention - Henry V, Prologue

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Post by Meep » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:33 pm

::giggles about the masturbation question: That's... kinda extreme. The whole 'don't fuck' part of being straightedge is interpreted by moderates like me more to mean 'don't have sex where you do not love'. Do me and my Master boink like weasels? You better believe it. But there is no one else for me, ever. And I see nothing wrong with autoeroticism; I mean, geez, not like you can give yourself a disease or something!

If, over the next year, I start generating enough interest in a poison-free camp... I may actually be able to cause there to be a camp with a wonderful chillspace, lots of food and just general.. mellowness.

(And people can be nekkid if they wanna! I don't mind nekkid!)

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Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:40 am

you might want to talk to some of the people from anonamous camp. They're 12 steppers, so it may not be a perfect fit, but maybe they have some insight to some of what you seek.

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Post by Meep » Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:47 am

That's a good suggestion! I was thinking of doing that as things stood.

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Post by blythe » Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:52 am

i would totally be interested in a camp like that. i had a great time this year (as a bm-virgin), but at first i was a little overwhelmed by the pressure to get high/drink/be promiscuous. after awhile, i figured out how to interact without feeling that pressure, but camping with some "poison-free" folks might have improved my experience immensely.

i don't know if i'll be able to go next year (although i'll try like hell to get there), but i'd definetly like to help out with "camp straightedge."

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Post by boomer235 » Wed Sep 29, 2004 10:34 pm

Not straight edge myself, but I am surprised that there is no straight edge camp, or at least a substance free camp... there seems to be plenty of vegan Reps around.
no meat but drugs abound???
like I said I indulge the meat and the substances
just surprised there isn't a camp devoted to straight edge.
BòóM

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