Poofer pilot light igniter question

[captain voltaveus]

I have built a mini poofer to be mounted on the back of my trike. It works well, not too crazy huge a poof, but perfect for a trike mounted application. I constructed a pilot light out of copper tubing with a Pizo lighter soldered up close to the copper. As I've been testing it the past few weeks I've found that a considerable amount of soot has developed on the pilot light and pizo and it won't spark.

I'm sure there are several well tested solutions to this already out there. Does anyone have a photo of their reliable pilot light igniter system? Mine will be mounted the required 10 ft off the deck and it won't be convenient to bring it down and relight it manually .

Thanks!

[captain voltaveus]

Here is a pic of my set up (minus the soot build up). I'm hoping there is a more fool proof solution out there...

[Dustdevil]

Is your copper tubing exposed to the open air or have your surrounded it with steel wool, or preferably, stainless steel wool? Surrounding it with SSW will shield it from the wind and at the same time allow more O2 around your flame creating a cleaner burn.

Jack

[captain voltaveus]

I did wrap it with steel wool, but it wasn't SSW and seemed to disintegrate with time. Perhaps that is the issue? Do you use a Pizo for your pilot light? From the photo you might see that the copper tubing wraps around at the level of the nozzle, I wonder if I mounted the pilot ignition further down and oriented the copper tubing pilot light vertically so as to keep the main poof away from the pizo?

Thanks for any advice on this, I'm glad to trouble shoot it well ahead of time. Also in Portland we have the upcoming Naked Bike Ride where this trike might be making an appearance!

CV

[Token]

Just to clarify:

1. You have a high pressure line that evacuates your "poof" gas.
2. You have a regulated low pressure line that feeds your pilot burner that ignites the gas delivered from your high pressure line.
3. Your low pressure pilot line has steel wool or similar to diffuse the gas and minimize wind blowing it out.
4. You have a spark ignitor to light the low pressure pilot and it is firing onto the copper feed line.

Is this accurate?

q:

Do you continually run the pilot?
How often do you plan to use the spark ignitor?
Does your ignitor foul up when arcing to steel/tungsten/welding rod?
Have you tried a spark-plug?

For the diffuser, heavy duty stainless scouring pads are much better than steel wool. Thicker filaments that don't burn out as fast.

[trilobyte]

I'm giving this a nudge over to the Q&A board, since that's a better fit for general preparation discussions and project questions.

[captain voltaveus]

Yes! I am running a low pressure copper line to a pilot light (pictured) that I bent in a circle around the pipe that opens via solenoid and exits the main propane. My intention was to alway leave the pilot light running - only because I don't know any better. I did cover the brass pilot line with steel wool, yet the blasts from the main pipe seem to be leaving a bunch of soot that gunks up the pizo ignitor. My thoughts are: should I re-orient the pilot light vertically with a small hole drilled below the level of the main poofer pipe so I can keep the pizo igniter below the poof and get less soot?

Are there more elegant solutions that I should tinker with?

Thanks!

[captain voltaveus]

Are spark plugs the preferred option? Does one set it up such that the spark plug fires as the main propane is released or just to ignite a pilot light?

Thanks!

[Dustdevil]

I would leave the pilot on all of the time. (when you are with the vehicle) Then there is no delay time to firing your poofer.

[Token]

Spark-Plugs are not the preferred ignition method. Diagnostic tool only. Did not know if the soot was due to scoring the copper with the ark.

In general, spark ignitors are less reliable than a pilot flame, either a shielded jet (best) or the low pressure ring (good) is preferred. In general, spark ignitors from industrial boilers and furnaces are pretty good. The small non-industrial piezo gizmos are just about as frustrating as you typical Coleman stove.

Some possible improvements.

1. Use much smaller diameter tube for your pilot. That monster tube is just ... ugly and unnecessary.
2. With smaller copper tube, use a helix (same shape as a spring) that starts below the top of your high pressure line and projects a couple-few turns above.
3. Place spark ignitor on the lowest ring of the helix, below the top of the high pressure line. This should be your first pilot hole that is ignited by the spark. Keep this hole small.
4. Place additional holes in your pilot helix such that they line up vertically above the first hole. Place the holes on the outside to minimize odds of high pressure "poof" blowing them out.
5. Repeat on opposite side of the helix. Might be good to have a second spark source on that side for redundancy and peace of mind.
6. Wrap the pilot tube with stainless scouring pad material. Always have plenty spares for on the playa maintenance.
7. To increase the "sexy", you can have the helix flare out a bit at the top, martini glass style.

In general, a 1/4 or 3/8 line will be fine. Bending it around a PVC 3" or 4" pipe or similar, take it slow. You can minimize kinks by filling the tube with a fine grit sand and crimping the ends.

If possible, have the spark hit something other than copper. You could just twist tie some stainless wire around the first pilot hole or somesuch.

Good luck and post a bigger picture so us old guys can see the details

[ygmir]

as an aside:
how high is your poofer, where the flame will be?

and yeah, always on pilot is best,
not too low, though. if the gas velocity is too high, or it has not yet mixed with enough oxygen, it won't lite.

[captain voltaveus]

Token. Holy cow that was exactly the mother load of helpful tips I was dreaming about. I will get about modifying my set up. Thanks a TON.

When you say industrial furnace igniters, are there 12V DC ones out there? Any suggestions as to which one I might go source?

As to the next question, my poofer is 10ft above the deck and oriented nearly vertical... Which I believe will meet the FAST requirements.

Cheers!

[Dustdevil]

Ten feet from the ground is the minimum height requirement for motorized vehicles on the Playa. There really is not a standard for Human powered vehicles as they do not require a DMV license. BUT, you are doing the right thing as the BLM push this year is safety. I feel it is only a matter of time before ALL flame effects will need to be inspected. You can get your system inspected and receive an FE laminate at the DMV flame inspection area. This will be about 5:50 and Esplanade. The hours will be Sat and Sun pre Event and during the Event from 2:00 pm thru 6:00 pm daily.

Jack

[Token]

Token. Holy cow that was exactly the mother load of helpful tips I was dreaming about. I will get about modifying my set up. Thanks a TON.

When you say industrial furnace igniters, are there 12V DC ones out there? Any suggestions as to which one I might go source?

As to the next question, my poofer is 10ft above the deck and oriented nearly vertical... Which I believe will meet the FAST requirements.

Cheers!

http://bfy.tw/3qy

C'mon have some fun while you are at it.

Did you know that old people drove cars way back when with this cool thing called an Ignition Coil that was driven with these strange mechanical rotating points ...

http://www.penguinslab.com/ignitioncoil.htm

Besides, building something that creates arks and plasma tunnels of sever thousand degrees of heat, then clamping it to a propane rig helps keep Burning Man dangerous.

What could possibly go wrong?

[FIGJAM]

And here I was thinking of big capzapitors and such!!!

[The Rod]

On our poofers we use the copper tube wrapped in s.s.w., always worked great but now I'm thinking about going over to high pressure pilots, because the subject of fun with pilot lights..

At SOAK last weekend some guy gave me a lighter that burns a green flame. One of those 'windproof' kind with a little copper ball on a wire suspended right in the middle of the flame. Copper burns green. Makes me wonder about bigger copper balls suspended in the high pressure pilot flame of poofers...

[captain voltaveus]

On our poofers we use the copper tube wrapped in s.s.w., always worked great but now I'm thinking about going over to high pressure pilots, because the subject of fun with pilot lights..

Do you orient your pilot light vertical to the high pressure nozzle or wrap it around the nozzle in a helix? Do you position your igniter below the high pressure nozzle? What kind of igniter do you use?

Thanks for any advice from fellow Oregonians!

[The Rod]

Wrapped 'around' the nozzle in a helix-oid shape, positioned 3-4 inches above the high pressure 'valve'. Which is not really a valve but the open end of iron pipe, the actual valves are 12v solenoid valves coming off the accumulators, the charged gas then travels through about 8 feet of iron pipe igniting as it exits the pipe.

[captain voltaveus]

Wrapped 'around' the nozzle in a helix-oid shape, positioned 3-4 inches above the high pressure 'valve'. Which is not really a valve but the open end of iron pipe, the actual valves are 12v solenoid valves coming off the accumulators, the charged gas then travels through about 8 feet of iron pipe igniting as it exits the pipe.

Do you have the igniter positioned below the open iron pipe? What type of igniter did you use? Do you have to re-wrap the SSW each night?

Cheers!

[The Rod]

The 'igniter' used is a grill lighter. Every night the low pressure supply to the pilots is opened, then the pilots are lit with said grill lighter and they stay lit all night, or until we shut the flame effects off. There is no need for a dedicated igniter to be mounted anywhere on the propane rig, turn the sucker on, light it and done.

The SSW wraps have held up for a couple burns now...