How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

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FlyingMonkey
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by FlyingMonkey » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:13 am

Ratty wrote:

Now. Imagine being blown all over the playa with no control. "Hey! Somebody pop that fool".
Ratty, I think there is plenty of unprotected rebar that will accomplish that.

But seriously, I think the odds of it getting scratched to hell or worse completely destroyed is high.

:mrgreen: BRING IT :mrgreen:
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Molotov » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:55 am

If an unoccupied zorb comes bouncing past me...

Image
Last edited by Molotov on Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Ratty » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:57 am

If an unoccupied zorb comes my way its 'ground score'.
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by maladroit » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:23 am

sparr wrote:
Jovankat wrote:Sustained 60mph winds are not unheard of on the playa. And it probably wouldn't take them being sustained for too long before the rider freaked and bailed. Your seeming lack on concern for what damage the zorb may cause after the rider is safely out is pretty damn infuriating. You've gotten some harsh words in this thread but being so lackadaisical for the safety, belongings, time and effort of others is really not in keeping with the burn's community spirit and frankly is pretty shitty.
I'm really unclear how *I* am the one responsible for [lack of] safety here, when it sounds like you're proposing that someone else is out gallavanting in my zorb with 60mph winds going on. Why are you angry at me and not at that person? (easy answer: because I'm here and they aren't)
OK, now you're being intentionally dense. Arguing semantics? You're really going to take Jovankat's inclusive "the rider" to exclude yourself and excuse yourself of responsibility, when you already introduced generic terms such as "non-consenting human" and "they" when referrring to the operation of the zorb.

Aside from that, let's take the meaning of your comment at face value now. You're upset at being assigned responsibility for safety? Just because someone else might be in the zorb, you think that it's not your problem anymore? You're upset that we expect you to be in control of the thing you brought to the playa, and to assume responsibility for the safety of the people you allow to use it? You feel it's unfair for us to single YOU out, even though you're the one bringing the zorb? You can't handle some worry and criticism and want to pass all the potential blame off onto some unknown person who isn't here and can't defend themselves?

I wanted to say this using a couple of much shorter, more satisfying words, but we're all trying to be nice on ePlaya these days. So here's the soft, fluffy version: I'm not sure that Burning Man is right for you.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:43 am

gaminwench wrote:If I CHOOSE to go down a three-story astro turf covered slide nekkid, that is 'safety third'. 8)
No, Baby. In your case that would be "performance art". :mrgreen:
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by sparr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:46 am

maladroit wrote:Aside from that, let's take the meaning of your comment at face value now. You're upset at being assigned responsibility for safety? Just because someone else might be in the zorb, you think that it's not your problem anymore? You're upset that we expect you to be in control of the thing you brought to the playa, and to assume responsibility for the safety of the people you allow to use it? You feel it's unfair for us to single YOU out, even though you're the one bringing the zorb?
To be very explicit: yes.

If I bring something to BM that isn't illegal and isn't against the event rules, and it works in the way it should (that is, I'm not tricking people into using a broken tool/toy), I am in no way responsible for what other people decide to do with it.

That thing could be a nailgun (if those don't violate the weapons policy), a ladder, a parachute, a tent, a desert windsurfing rig, a water gun, or any of a thousand other things that a person COULD use in a dangerous way. When I use it, I'm going to use it safely. When someone else uses it, if they use it unsafely, that's on them. I am not their nanny. I am not offering, nor am I qualified to offer, safety training or oversight for any of those things I just listed, and yet I would have no problem bringing those things and lending them to others to be productive and/or have fun with. The same goes for a zorb.
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by maladroit » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:52 am

sparr wrote:
maladroit wrote:Aside from that, let's take the meaning of your comment at face value now. You're upset at being assigned responsibility for safety? Just because someone else might be in the zorb, you think that it's not your problem anymore? You're upset that we expect you to be in control of the thing you brought to the playa, and to assume responsibility for the safety of the people you allow to use it? You feel it's unfair for us to single YOU out, even though you're the one bringing the zorb?
To be very explicit: yes.

If I bring something to BM that isn't illegal and isn't against the event rules, and it works in the way it should (that is, I'm not tricking people into using a broken tool/toy), I am in no way responsible for what other people decide to do with it.

That thing could be a nailgun (if those don't violate the weapons policy), a ladder, a parachute, a tent, a desert windsurfing rig, a water gun, or any of a thousand other things that a person COULD use in a dangerous way. When I use it, I'm going to use it safely. When someone else uses it, if they use it unsafely, that's on them. I am not their nanny. I am not offering, nor am I qualified to offer, safety training or oversight for any of those things I just listed, and yet I would have no problem bringing those things and lending them to others to be productive and/or have fun with. The same goes for a zorb.
If you're not qualified to offer training and oversight for something dangerous, then you don't allow people to use it. Both the parachute and windsurfing rig are great examples of things you don't just hand to someone and say "go have fun!" and then expect to be blameless when someone dies.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by sparr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:58 am

I'm flabbergasted enough at what you're saying that I've forked this to another topic in a more appropriate forum. Please join me there, if you would. viewtopic.php?f=65&t=74286
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Jovankat » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:57 pm

I said "the rider" because that's how YOU were referring to the person riding the zorb. You have MASSIVELY dodged my question in a fit of incredible obtuseness so I will rephrase.

Sustained 60mph winds are not unheard of on the playa, and they can strike with little warning. It probably wouldn't take them being sustained for too long before YOU freak and bail. Your COMPLETE lack on concern for what damage YOUR zorb WILL cause after YOU are safely out is Infuriatingly reckless.

If you don't have a good answer for how you will PREVENT damage being done by YOUR out of control toy DON'T FUCKING BRING IT.

As for what responsibility you have for what someone else does with your toy, well that new thread should be interesting.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Molotov » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Really? You didn't like what people were telling you here, so you started a second thread trying to plead your case? That's a good way to get both threads locked by the admins.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by digital » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:07 pm

The novelty of this 'toy' would last me all of five minutes. What a stupid thing to 'show off' on the playa. You didn't make it. It's dangerous. You have zero concern for damage done by others with YOUR toy. What's the point? Are you really so in love with this stupid thing that you will ignore concerns of experienced burners?

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Ratty » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:22 pm

Stick a spork in it.
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Meat Hunter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:41 pm

Time To Lock or Delete This Thread.
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Re: How much playa dust sticks to your jeep windows?

Post by Meat Hunter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:45 pm

Time To Lock Or Delete This Thread.
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Re: How much playa dust sticks to your jeep windows?

Post by mrchiff » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:02 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:Time To Lock Or Delete This Thread.
Why, you don't like jeeps?

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by sparr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:21 pm

The_Sheik wrote:Really? You didn't like what people were telling you here, so you started a second thread trying to plead your case? That's a good way to get both threads locked by the admins.
This thread is supposed to be about playa dust, vinyl, and scratches. It's not my fault you people are bad at staying on topic. Starting a new thread is the appropriate way to handle that situation.
Jovankat wrote:I said "the rider" because that's how YOU were referring to the person riding the zorb. You have MASSIVELY dodged my question in a fit of incredible obtuseness so I will rephrase.

Sustained 60mph winds are not unheard of on the playa, and they can strike with little warning. It probably wouldn't take them being sustained for too long before YOU freak and bail. Your COMPLETE lack on concern for what damage YOUR zorb WILL cause after YOU are safely out is Infuriatingly reckless.

If you don't have a good answer for how you will PREVENT damage being done by YOUR out of control toy DON'T FUCKING BRING IT.
If I'm the one riding in it when the wind picks up, I'll get out, anchor it, and deflate it. I won't wait for it to get to 60mph sustained before I bail. I'll bail at the first 20mph gusts. Getting out and anchoring it might take a minute. Deflating it another 5 minutes. Have I under-estimated how fast the wind can pick up on the playa? If not, then the discussion goes back to other people using it unsafely, which is a matter for the other thread.
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Molotov » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:22 pm

Time for the......
Image

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by maladroit » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:35 pm

sparr wrote:I'll bail at the first 20mph gusts. Getting out and anchoring it might take a minute. Deflating it another 5 minutes. Have I under-estimated how fast the wind can pick up on the playa?
Why are you even bothering to ask this question again, if you haven't listened to the resounding YES from every experienced person here?

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by tamarakay » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:41 pm

We could play mutant vehicle soccer with it!
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Eric » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:06 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:Time To Lock or Delete This Thread.
Y'all know we don't do that unless we have to, generally dealing with Ticketing or a thread that's gotten incredibly ugly. If you think it's time to let it die, stop responding. It's rather obvious that it's going to be dragged out as long as the OP has someone to reply to, and argue with.
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by sparr » Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:42 pm

maladroit wrote:
sparr wrote:I'll bail at the first 20mph gusts. Getting out and anchoring it might take a minute. Deflating it another 5 minutes. Have I under-estimated how fast the wind can pick up on the playa?
the resounding YES from every experienced person here?
I don't think anyone has actually answered this question. So far the closest anyone has come is to say that it will pick up fast enough to surprise someone who isn't familiar with the zorb's handling characteristics in wind. I have no idea how fast "fast" is, in that context. Are we talking 0-60 in seconds? minutes? hours?
If you want to make a reply about my personality instead of about what this thread is about, don't clutter this thread, post over here instead.

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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by gaminwench » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:04 pm

A 40 MPH dust-laden wall of wind can appear out of nowhere within seconds.
Seen it.
Often.
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Re: How much playa dust sticks to your jeep windows?

Post by mdmf007 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:30 pm

Nah - not locking up worthy yet its still on topic sort of.

How much dust sticks? - All of it. Dont armor all your vinyl either, was the worst mistake I could have made on my jeep wrangler on the BlackRock. Leave it be, keep your rig buttoned up, cover the seats in huge garbage bags and detail or have detailed when you get home.
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Re: How much playa dust sticks to your jeep windows?

Post by Meat Hunter » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:37 pm

I like jeeps. They are a fine piece of machinery.

But, "this thread is not about jeeps".
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Jovankat » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:43 pm

sparr wrote:
maladroit wrote:
sparr wrote:I'll bail at the first 20mph gusts. Getting out and anchoring it might take a minute. Deflating it another 5 minutes. Have I under-estimated how fast the wind can pick up on the playa?
the resounding YES from every experienced person here?
I don't think anyone has actually answered this question.

BULLFUCKINGSHIT
Ulisse wrote:If you get to rolling with the wind, how do you stop?
Trash Fence?
Eric wrote: It could also be a blasted hell-scape with dust so thick you can't see 10 feet, in which you wouldn't want to bring it out since there would be a very good chance of endangering someone else (no, I'm not exaggerating )

My gut answer would be to leave it at home.
Meat Hunter wrote:All jesting and poking at you aside. With a potential for 60+ mph wind sweeping across the playa unexpectedly and at anytime, no one would be able to help you. Bringing your zorb is not a good idea a'tall.
Drawingablank wrote:I have no experience with a Zorb - but I can't see using one on the playa having a happy ending.
Simon of the Playa wrote:i saw these on the TV the other day and immediately thought "wow, there are going to be a few stupid fucks who actually bring this idiocy to the playa" and i was right...
maladroit wrote:And wind loading is no joke, it's a lot more force than most people realize. Keep in mind that playa winds rolled trailers and RVs over last year during early entry and everyone still thought this was another pretty easy year for weather.
Drawingablank wrote:Do what you want, but you are severely underestimating what the wind can do out there. And it can happen without any warning too.

Last year a few days before opening it rolled a mobile home (not a camper but and actual mobile home).

Just last weekend it wreaked havoc http://www.burn.life/blog/the-playa-strikes-back

Meat Hunter wrote:This will be your first Burn and you know absolutely nothing about the conditions that you are going to face or the personal and property damage that you might do to others.

Most of the comments that you have received in this thread are from burners with years of surviving all that the worse that the playa can throw at them.

Ask yourself, how many of the comments from these veteran burners were supportive of what you are proposing?

I am out of here. Let him bring it on because he is not listening and get what he deserves; hopefully he will not hurt or kill someone else.
Drawingablank wrote:Funny, but I have an image of a big brown ball moving at warp speed right over the trash fence and ending up 200 miles away.
Ratty wrote:Sparr, You seem unwilling to take the advice from virtually everyone that this is a BAD idea. When the wind reaches over 60 mph and you try to take shelter in a porta potty what will you do with your precious plastic ball? If you bring it, (and I have little doubt that you will), We will all be looking for you. Eplayans love a good show. I fear the Leos would put a stop to your fun due to endangering everyone else.
GreyCoyote wrote:For the record I think you have NO CLUE what the playa can throw at you, and your grasp of the resulting physics is tenuous and wishful at best. This is indeed a foolish and dangerous endeavor. Not so much for your riders (because hey, its burning man, and if they really want to kill themselves, thats just ducky with everybody else!), but for the poor schmoo who gets his neck broken when this contraption clobbers him off his bike. Thats just an unacceptable risk you are imposing on the general BRC public.

The playa has an amazing way of debunking bad science. You'll see.
maladroit wrote:I'm putting odds on seeing this roll into the center of a giant dust devil and get some air! That would be awesome! And very likely result in injury, policy changes, etc, but still something you'd never see otherwise.
maladroit wrote:I'll summarize the points above:

Letting it loose on the playa could be an extremely bad idea
Mojojita wrote:I'm far less concerned about someone being hurt while using the Zorb, but my concern would be for the person who gets knocked down by it once the user has to bail out in a high wind. The speed and bounce it could pick up once empty could certainly knock someone down or off a bike. It is an environment where things do become airborne that send people to the hospital - even things that have been tied down. It can be a lot more like the flying house scene in Wizard of Oz than one would wish.
Are you seriously saying you don't think anyone has adequately warned you that this is potentially dangerous?! You are a menace. A wilfully ignorant self centred menace. I hope to god the only person's burn you manage to ruin is your own.

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Re: How much playa dust sticks to your jeep windows?

Post by mdmf007 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:45 pm

Good point - For all vinyl related questions, try the zorb thread.

viewtopic.php?f=404&t=74236
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by Savannah » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:46 pm

gaminwench wrote:A 40 MPH dust-laden wall of wind can appear out of nowhere within seconds.
Seen it.
Often.
Me too. I watched a carport go cartwheeling down the street before Gates opened in 2011(?) with half a dozen shrieking people running after it down the street. It was not a particularly windy day. Freak gust. Although "freak" is probably the wrong thing to call something that happens numerous times a day. :lol:

In 2013, Motsky's steel shade frame got blown into the air out of nowhere while we were assembling it. Not a windy day, either, or we would've been more fussy. A nice 6 & half foot fella made a running leap and grabbed the edge, preventing disaster.
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by FIGJAM » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:56 pm

Wind on the playa is a constant.

It is always there.

The air is always moving.

In 5 yrs. I don't remember it ever being dead calm.

It can go from a slight breeze to 50 mph in seconds with no warning.
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by EspressoDude » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:56 pm

from http://burningman.org/event/preparation ... -vehicles/

Certain Wind-Powered Vehicles:
Certain types of wind-powered vehicles are allowed within Black Rock City limits. Registration and licensing of these vehicles is not required; however, these vehicles are subject to all of the BRC driving rules listed above. Drivers are encouraged to decorate their crafts.
Wind-powered vehicles allowed in Black Rock City must have the following characteristics:
•An effective mechanical braking system
•A pivoting mast
•Weight of no more than 50 pounds; an additional 30-50 pounds should be allowed for small trailers (in general, the vehicle should be easily hoisted above the head of the operator)
•Operational only while operator is standing
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Re: How much will playa dust scratch clear vinyl (a zorb)?

Post by lucky420 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:05 pm

Holy shit!

Bubble boy kills hundreds at Burning Man. :roll:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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