Aluminet Durability?

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Rez
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Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:03 am

I've settled on a Kodiak 10'x14' tent Here

And I'm thinking about using a 20' by 21' sheet of Aluminet. Like Here

I was planning on attaching one side to the SUV and the other side over the Tent and re barred with the tent with a gap between for shade.

I have never dealt with or to be honest seen Aluminet.

So my question is do I have to worry about the Aluminet ripping or stretching out over time. Or would there be a better material to use like shade cloth. And also does Aluminet roll up small or would it take a large amount of space to transport there.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by tamarakay » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:30 am

We use 90% shade cloth and it is really excellent. We have it grommeted along the edges and it's been to six burns with no issues
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:22 pm

Both polyester shade cloth as TK suggests and Aluminet are very tough. You will need that because both will catch some wind.

Poly shade cloth hardly stretches. Aluminet is very stretchy. I suggest having the Aluminet edges taped and grommeted. The nylon tape - webbing does not stretch. Aluminet compresses well for packing - I use nylon duffels.

I have set up 2x2 lumber poles in the corners with a nail to anchor the grommet. Then I guyed the corner poles. You can also put a center pole in the middle under the shade cloth and with half a plastic ball or an inverted bowl to push up to, but not stress the shade cloth, because it will otherwise sag over a 20 foot span.

Aluminet has decent resale value too. Used polyester shade cloth can often be found on Craigs in agricultural areas.

There have been many Aluminet threads you can search. One of the suppliers which begins with Gothic has developed a great relationship with burners over many years.
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Rez
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:46 pm

tamarakay wrote:We use 90% shade cloth and it is really excellent. We have it grommeted along the edges and it's been to six burns with no issues
some seeing eye wrote:Both polyester shade cloth as TK suggests and Aluminet are very tough. You will need that because both will catch some wind.

Poly shade cloth hardly stretches. Aluminet is very stretchy. I suggest having the Aluminet edges taped and grommeted. The nylon tape - webbing does not stretch. Aluminet compresses well for packing - I use nylon duffels.

I have set up 2x2 lumber poles in the corners with a nail to anchor the grommet. Then I guyed the corner poles. You can also put a center pole in the middle under the shade cloth and with half a plastic ball or an inverted bowl to push up to, but not stress the shade cloth, because it will otherwise sag over a 20 foot span.

Aluminet has decent resale value too. Used polyester shade cloth can often be found on Craigs in agricultural areas.

There have been many Aluminet threads you can search. One of the suppliers which begins with Gothic has developed a great relationship with burners over many years.

Just when I thought I had it all figured out... lol

Great info. Thanks both of you.

One quick question. is there that much of a difference between 80% and 90% "I know 10%" but 80% is so much cheaper. Shade Cloth
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by some seeing eye » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:09 pm

Looking at your catalog link, I'm not familiar with that product. The poly product I'm thinking of is very similar to fiberglass window screen. So to compare stretchiness between products request the seller's technical elongation spec.

Aluminet has spiral strips of aluminized mylar in the weave for reflectivity.

I wouldn't worry about 10%.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by EspressoDude » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:45 pm

if you look enough you can find the manufacturer, and they will send you small samples of different shade numbers
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by tamarakay » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:24 pm

On our large hut we have 80% on 1/2 and 90% on the other. People gravitate to the 90. It is a noticeable temperature difference. I will only buy 90 now. If I had never known about the 90 I would be fine and comfy with the 80.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:29 pm

I did find an older post on here with a bit of info. And went to some videos from burning man to kinda check out the background to see what seemed to be working and not.. I do see a lot more slag from the Aluminet then seems to be from the Cloth.

Gonna check out Clist and also heard about some at home depot. Glad 80% would still work.. seems much cheaper.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:30 pm

tamarakay wrote:On our large hut we have 80% on 1/2 and 90% on the other. People gravitate to the 90. It is a noticeable temperature difference. I will only buy 90 now. If I had never known about the 90 I would be fine and comfy with the 80.
Well crap.. haha.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:35 pm

I got some durable cheap 50% shade cloth at Harbor freight.

20' X 20' for about $30.

By folding it in half, I added a nice 10' X 20' extension to my awning that is plenty shady.

We had a couple of 70 MPH gusts a few weeks ago and it held up great.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:38 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I got some durable cheap 50% shade cloth at Harbor freight.

20' X 20' for about $30.

By folding it in half, I added a nice 10' X 20' extension to my awning that is plenty shady.

We had a couple of 70 MPH gusts a few weeks ago and it held up great.

Now That.. I like that. any Idea what it is called. I just went to the site and searched under just about every name I could think of for it.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:44 pm

This is the same stuff.

I went out and took a pic where the awning ,shade, and the shadows they produce can be seen, but now my battery has to recharge before I can post. :lol:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/inde ... la_9583931
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:48 pm

FIGJAM wrote:This is the same stuff.

I went out and took a pic where the awning ,shade, and the shadows they produce can be seen, but now my battery has to recharge before I can post. :lol:

http://www.acehardware.com/product/inde ... la_9583931

That is freakin Great.. Hell I could build a city for 33 bucks a shot. Thanks for that Fig!

Figure 2 of them doubled up would work well for what I'm using it for. At least enough to get me thru my first burn.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:10 pm

Reading this thread reminds me of myself and my first burn.

----------------

Some have argued on this forum that black Aluminet is possibly hotter due to heat absorption than is silver Aluminet.

Some have argued on this forum that there is a possible temperature difference between 80% vs. 90%.

I do not any much technical information to supporter either of the above. But, my shade tarp is 90% silver Aluminet.

----------------

All that I have to offer is that if I were spending my money for my first burn and if I had intentions of attending more burns, it does sound a bit like false economizing to spend money one year and then turn around and spend more money on an improved version of the same product the next year.....?

Been there done that -- Just ask my friends in east Texas who drove to Mississippi to pick up an almost complete "whole camp" that I purchased for my first burn. Or, the folks that I sent my portable pump-shower to.

Great for them, not so good for my check book. Be mindful and plan for the future -- Like I should have done and did not.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Sun Mar 27, 2016 4:23 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:Reading this thread reminds me of myself and my first burn.

----------------

Some have argued on this forum that black Aluminet is possibly hotter due to heat absorption than is silver Aluminet.

Some have argued on this forum that there is a possible temperature difference between 80% vs. 90%.

I do not any much technical information to supporter either of the above. But, my shade tarp is 90% silver Aluminet.

----------------

All that I have to offer is that if I were spending my money for my first burn and if I had intentions of attending more burns, it does sound a bit like false economizing to spend money one year and then turn around and spend more money on an improved version of the same product the next year.....?

Been there done that -- Just ask my friends in east Texas who drove to Mississippi to pick up an almost complete "whole camp" that I purchased for my first burn. Or, the folks that I sent my portable pump-shower to.

Great for them, not so good for my check book. Be mindful and plan for the future -- Like I should have done and did not.


This is kinda what I'm struggling with ATM. I want to do my first burn solo, but i'm sure next year I will want to join a camp. Example: buying a good playa Tent because I know I will be able to use it year after year even in a camp. So I'm kinda trying to juggle spending the money in my Burning man budget "of 4,000 including the trip" mostly on things I know I will reuse.

The Silver Aluminet makes total sense. But would be costly for the space I would need to cover this trip. 66 bucks for two compared to 190 for one.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by FIGJAM » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:06 pm

Here ya go!

Notice I didn't use the grommets.

I put a golf ball in each corner so I could streeetch it better!!! 8)

If you stack 2, put the top one across the weave of the bottom and it will block more sun than mine!!!



Image

Image
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:55 pm

some seeing eye wrote:...I suggest having the Aluminet edges taped and grommeted. The nylon tape - webbing does not stretch. .
It is true that the tape-webbing does not stretch,,,, makes the set-up neater and far more manageable.

HOWEVER, the taped and grommeted edge versions available in stock sizes are WAY more expensive than bulk.

As "stretchy" as no taped edged aluminet is, I've had no problems with integrity of it when used with clips.


These are the clips I use and they 1/3 the price of Shark Clips which are overpriced.
I use very close spacing probably because they are so cheap.
"Clip-Its Plastic Grommets" 25 for $5.75 vs. Shark Cips 10 for $5
http://www.shadeclothstore.com/products ... 0&dept=172
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by gaminwench » Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:07 pm

I've had the same experience as the good Doctor ^

My Aluminet has been to the playa since 2007, and is sometimes called upon to do summertime duty.

Going strong.
Clips, tennis balls and ball bungees.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:15 pm

Thanks everyone for taking the time to help. It was very helpful, some great info and answered all of my concerns to go forward with.

I'll be hitting the stores and online next weekend.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Kelsier » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:41 pm

Great thread and thanks for all the comments. I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP. While I haven't tested the tent in playa conditions yet, Rez I can say you settled on a damn fine tent. I've used it twice so far and can see it lasting a lifetime. I initially was going to go for a Hexayurt, but I figured I would get more use out of my Kodiak 10x14 deluxe in the long run.

Those shade cloths do look like they might be a much less expensive alternative to aluminet. I only worry about the durability.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by tamarakay » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:56 pm

Kelsier wrote:Great thread and thanks for all the comments. I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP. While I haven't tested the tent in playa conditions yet, Rez I can say you settled on a damn fine tent. I've used it twice so far and can see it lasting a lifetime. I initially was going to go for a Hexayurt, but I figured I would get more use out of my Kodiak 10x14 deluxe in the long run.

Those shade cloths do look like they might be a much less expensive alternative to aluminet. I only worry about the durability.
Mines six years old and going strong
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by DoctorIknow » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:43 pm

Aluminet vs. camo

When I got my first BM tickets (thru the mail…just send a check and the tickets were delivered! You can grab your tissue now…)
I was big into figuring how to camp in the desert with as few dollars needed for best survivability. Fortunately, I found actual army surplus camo netting (from the Gulf War) , and for years thought that it was the absolute best solution to shade out on the playa. (warning: the new commercial camo I see on the playa has both very weak netting and “shade material” that looks very cheap and won’t last.)

Real army camo rocks for these reasons:
-----although it looks like a lot of light gets thru, it only is in small patches, and the shade portions must be 99% shade.
-----wind will NEVER bother the stuff
-----the shadows that play on my tent make living in the tent a constantly moving light and shadow show

The negatives are:
------handling the stuff is frustrating. There are (in the military camo) these little copper connectors tying the net together, thru which the nylon “shade” material is woven. These connectors will grab any of the net line that touches it. To lay one piece flat on the playa might take up to 10 minutes to free the netting from those connectors
-----the military pieces I got were not square or rectangular. Because of this, during the 12 years I used it, each time setting it up was a new experience.
-----washing it out when returned from the playa was ultra difficult, as hanging it up would involve the same process of freeing the stuck netting from the connectors, hanging it, power washing it, drying it, laying it out, and trying to fold it efficiently. After a few years I never bothered to wash it at all, and my storage space became saturated with playa dust smell. Packing it up for the trip to the playa never was fun as dust would be flying. We may love the dust out there, but not so much at home….
------it is very bulky
-----it is slightly moopy, but it’s moop is easy to spot and doesn’t travel very far.

HOWEVER, over time, I discovered Swedish snow camo and then aluminet to fill gaps in my ever expanding communal shade structure, and then a few years ago, when packing up the camo, thought the hassles were no longer worth it and gave it all away instead of loading it on the van.

I’m now 100% aluminet, because it is by far the most practical solution to shade and I have more money than I did when I first started going to BM.

Aluminet rocks for these reasons:
------wind has never bothered it
------shade quality is fantastic
------it just doesn't wear out unless it rubs against something other than occasional contact with a tent surface
------size is up to you, either with pre-made taped edge pieces or bulk with clips
------cleaning is a breeze
------packing it up in vacuum bags makes it VERY compact, especially the bulk. I just use garbage bags with a vacuum cleaner hose, then once as much air as possible is gone, quickly remove the hose, tie off the bag, then madly tie cheap line around the whole bag, as it will tend to expand using cheap garbage bags instead of some insanely priced bags of the “As Seen On TV” variety.

How it doesn’t rock:
-----expensive
-----no character, no shadows that play on surfaces

Synopsis: I’ve traded art for function. Who knows: in a few more burns I may own a Costco carport or RV and look for my soul somewhere other than the boring but efficient infrastructure of my campsite. :twisted:

The video of the the next to last year for my military camo...note the introduction of Swedish snow camo, which I'll give away this year. It too, has limitations outweighing it's shade power:


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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:03 am

Kelsier wrote:Great thread and thanks for all the comments. I'm pretty much in the same boat as OP. While I haven't tested the tent in playa conditions yet, Rez I can say you settled on a damn fine tent. I've used it twice so far and can see it lasting a lifetime. I initially was going to go for a Hexayurt, but I figured I would get more use out of my Kodiak 10x14 deluxe in the long run.

Those shade cloths do look like they might be a much less expensive alternative to aluminet. I only worry about the durability.
Sup Kelsier, I'm pretty stoked about the whole thing also. Ordering the Tent and some other supplies this weekend.. I do have concerns about how it holds up in the rain. Read really mixed reviews on the issue, but even with that I'm still a go on the tent.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:10 am

DoctorIknow wrote:
I’m now 100% aluminet, because it is by far the most practical solution to shade and I have more money than I did when I first started going to BM.
Thanks for taking the time for some great info.

Man that camo does look cool. Def adds character to the camp which was one of the things I was worried about with Aluminet. I know I know.. It's the freakin desert get practical.

I really don't see myself hanging around camp much.. Hell even in real life I only sleep about 5 hours a day. So I'm still kinda on the fence about dropping that kind of money on it first year. My plan is to do some more price shopping this weekend on it and hope I can find something responsible within my BM budget. If not I may go with the Brand store shade cloth for the first year. I'm also only bringing a small SUV so space has to be managed.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:22 am

Hey Rez, if you've got a small SUV my best suggestion is to get a small trailer.
That lets you pack more stuff easily, and the best part is you don't have to completely trash your interior packing it full of extremely dirty everything.
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Rez » Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:58 am

Hey Capt.. Well it will be a rental and the small ones i'm looking at don't have a hitch.. "sucks" but the price for the bigger one and gas would just be too excessive. It will be a Jeep renegade. I plan on when I get all my gear to rent it for the weekend and do a test run with all the gear local at a camp site here. set up see what works what doesn't. I plan on buying a new SUV late next year and almost thought about picking one up before the burn.. but i'm not to keen on bringing a new truck there until I feel it out..lol
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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by trilobyte » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:56 am

Depending on the size of the piece, aluminet shade cloth (created primarily for greenhouses) will definitely stretch out over time. And depending on how it's handled, it can definitely rip (more on that in a bit).

The material itself is extremely lightweight, but can sag or stretch out under its own weight. As others have mentioned, you buy it based on percentage of shade, with 100% being it blocks all the sunlight, 90% shade lets 10% of the light through, and so on. The campmate who taught me about shade way back in my first year talked about aluminet quite a bit - he loved the stuff and had both studied it and talked to builders who used it for years, but back at the time it was much more expensive and way too rich for our camp's blood (especially since we were doing a 40'x30' structure that year).

As he explained to me, 70% shade was a sweet spot. He'd talked to a number of people and found that 70% was just enough that it effectively blocked UV... you could fall asleep in a chair or hammock under it and sleep all day long, and not get a sunburn. You can certainly go to higher levels of shade and still not get a sunburn, but the higher the density the more expensive, and the heavier it is.

I talked to a lot of people who'd used it over the next several years, and from conversations and spending time in other peoples' structures I found the same to be true. I've now got 3 20'x28' pieces of 70% shade aluminet that we use for our camp. All three were purchased with finished edges and grommets from the supplier. Two of the pieces were bought in 2013 and used to make a large courtyard around our conduit frame shade structure (you can see what that setup looked like in the video in this post). The aluminet was slightly smaller than the space, and we used ball bungees to secure it to the frame (the two pieces were held together with zip ties through the grommet holes). At the beginning of the week, there was a sizable gap (maybe a foot?) around the edges, and by the end of the week the gap had shrunk to only a couple inches.

Anticipating that it would sag under its own weight, I'd build a wooden structure to prop it up in the middle (and sanded the corners so it wouldn't snag). That seemed to work out perfectly, and for the most part we just noticed a gentle up/down as the aluminet sort of floated as air passed through it. There was a particularly strong dust storm at some point in the week, and the up/down action got a little aggressive, and we picked up two small holes where the constant landing on the sanded corners of the wooden structure had caused it to poke through. We improvised by duct-taping some fabric to the offending corners, and then duct-taping both sides of the small holes. After we got back home that year, my gf patched the holes by making a patch - one circle of fabric on each side with aluminet in the middle, sewn together. That's worked out perfectly.

Last year we got the third piece of aluminet, same size as the first two. As we unfurled it on the playa, it's got to be a few inches shorter in one direction, and then at least a foot in the long direction.. when compared to the pieces we'd gotten in 2013. Thinking that maybe the supplier cut it short I ran a measuring tape, and it was right on the money.

Here's a pic of a piece of 70% aluminet, fresh from the supplier.

Image

I'll take a look and see if I can find a decent pic of our courtyard.

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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by trilobyte » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:26 am

I found a pic that shows the way we'd done the edges of the courtyard...

Image

That center black line you can see in the upper left of the pic is where the two large pieces were stitched together with zip ties. Then in that gap between the aluminet and the conduit frame shade structure we used ball bungees. I prefer that to rope - you want there to be some give when the wind picks up, as well as tension when there isn't much (or any) wind.

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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by lucky420 » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:24 am

i use black shade cloth, aluminet was not worth the cost to me and black shade cloth really does do the job. I hippy it up with cool ass tapestries...
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Aluminet Durability?

Post by Kelsier » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:00 am

Rez wrote: I do have concerns about how it holds up in the rain. Read really mixed reviews on the issue, but even with that I'm still a go on the tent.
I'll stop talking about the tent because that should probably be a different threat, but I will say that I used mine for the first time during a rain storm at a Northern California coastal campsite. Winds were crazy and the campsite was flooded. Granted, the winds weren't playa level, but the tent didn't move an inch. As for the rain, it was amazingly dry; and this was before the initial "curing" period. I don't imagine you'll have any problems; the thing could withstand a hurricane (minus the flying branches).

Depending on my budget coming up closer to the burn, Aluminet looks to be the way to go. So most likely I'll end up going with cheaper shade clothes. :roll:
It seems that this is my circus, and apparently those are my monkeys.
I'll get the net.

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