BRC sun/wind direction map?

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jasonk
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BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby jasonk » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:00 am

Every year I've found a BRC map that shows sun & wind directions. Even to the point it details how the sun doesn't travel in a perfectly straight line as it rises & sets. Anyone know of such a map for 2016? I know that generally looking Center Camp->Man = roughly looking at sunrise, and the strongest winds are N/NE. But if there's something more precise, I'd like to find it.

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Skuzzy61 » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:10 am

According to the camp/city map, it looks like at about the 4:30 position, looking at the man, will mean you are facing due North, unless I fudged up my understanding of the map. Very possible. I am cardinal-coordinate challenged. :)
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Token » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:19 am

Since you never know actual alignment of the city until you get there, best approach is to arrive prepared.

1. Bring and learn how to use a compass.
2. Understand magnetic declination (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination aint too bad on this) then go calculate here http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomag-web/
3. Then go to the US Navy Observatory and grab the data for the days you are looking for. http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.php

Once you get all the data figured out, you can plan your deployment.

As for wind, anyone claiming any kind of predictability is a liar.

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby some seeing eye » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:40 pm

I am a fan of a certain app for photographers which maps the sun to a geo which includes a compass. You can't ensure apps work with limited to nonexistent mobile connectivity.

The wind generally blows from 2-6 BRC map to center camp. But it switches direction often. Vehicles on the access road and in BRC break up the playa creating blown dust. That is why the 6-2 outer camping areas are less dusty.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Popeye » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:52 pm

This won't show wind direction but the sun path seems to be accurate.
http://www.suncalc.org/#/40.7886,-119.2 ... 12/11:49/1
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Ratty » Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:29 pm

The flags on center camp wave in the wind coming from greeters. (Not to say that greeters are windbags).
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby BBadger » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:02 pm

Here's the one from 2012, which should work for this year's city:

SunWind.png
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby jasonk » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:46 pm

BBadger wrote:Here's the one from 2012, which should work for this year's city:

Is the city oriented the same way as 2012?

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby EGAZ » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:47 pm

I've been looking for this too. Been annoying FigJam with similar questions.

thanks OP and BB!
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby trilobyte » Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:50 pm

I'm giving this a nudge to the Q&A board, since I think that's a better fit for general Q&A.

Orientation of the city is unchanged over the last few years. 10:30's north, 4:30's south.

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Eric » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:34 pm

Sun rises in the east(ish), sets in the west(ish). It's above our heads somewhere most of the day. The wind comes from which-ever direction is least convenient.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby gaminwench » Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:25 pm

The sun sets on the mountains, time to eat and add another layer and some light.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby some seeing eye » Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:39 pm

I would strongly suggest all burners carry a magnetic analog compass independant of your mobile phone at all times. Use for camp setup, post man burn and everyday navigation. Understand the magnetic declination (magnetic compass reading) 13-14 degrees off true North.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Skuzzy61 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:34 am

Eric wrote:Sun rises in the east(ish), sets in the west(ish). It's above our heads somewhere most of the day. The wind comes from which-ever direction is least convenient.


At noon, I think the Sun's elevation is around 56 degrees given the time of year, longitude, and latitude,...I think I did that math right.

An RV oriented due E/W, should have a bit of shade on the North side of the RV.

Here is a table of Sun elevations (Elevation measured in degrees above the horizon) based on the hour of the day.
Sunrise: 6:20 AM
Sunset: 7:34 PM
---
Date: August 28, 2016 (GMT-8)
coordinates: 40.7886448, -119.2030177
location: Black Rock City, Nevada, USA
hour Elevation Azimuth
6:20:25 -0.833° 76.76°
7:00:00 6.53° 83.18°
8:00:00 17.86° 92.94°
9:00:00 29.08° 103.49°
10:00:00 39.76° 115.97°
11:00:00 49.17° 132.07°
12:00:00 56.05° 153.82°
13:00:00 58.54° 181.02°
14:00:00 55.65° 207.95°
15:00:00 48.51° 229.21°
16:00:00 38.95° 244.95°
17:00:00 28.2° 257.22°
18:00:00 16.95° 267.66°
19:00:00 5.6° 277.39°
19:34:31 -0.833° 282.98°
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby lucky420 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:50 am

Yeah it's hot and windy
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Luigi » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:57 am

Except when its cold or raining.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby ZigZag » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:32 pm

So all this astro math doesn;t tell me the thing I need to know.

Assuming I can use a magnetic compass
Assuming I correct for the 14 degrees of declination
Assuming the wind is going to blow any which way it wants.

What direction should I orient my monkey hut to?

The best answer I can come up with is "Ripe bananas". but that's not on my compass.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby Token » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:50 pm

ZigZag wrote:So all this astro math doesn;t tell me the thing I need to know.

Assuming I can use a magnetic compass
Assuming I correct for the 14 degrees of declination
Assuming the wind is going to blow any which way it wants.

What direction should I orient my monkey hut to?

The best answer I can come up with is "Ripe bananas". but that's not on my compass.


283 - 77 / 2 = 103 degrees.

That would maximize shade.

Since you didn't post where you camp, not sure we can talk if that direction makes sense wrt roads, frontage, crappers, etc.

At 103 degrees you will likely get some wind flowing through, less with cross-winds.

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby jasonk » Sat Aug 13, 2016 2:18 pm

Token wrote:283 - 77 / 2 = 103 degrees. That would maximize shade.

Which is about what I did last year with my hut. Made it north/south oriented. Worked-out well. Good shade. Got some wind through for cooling. Even though I use a tarp, which is pretty wind-blocking.

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby ZigZag » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:10 pm

Token wrote:283 - 77 / 2 = 103 degrees.

That would maximize shade.

Since you didn't post where you camp, not sure we can talk if that direction makes sense wrt roads, frontage, crappers, etc.


Token- Thanks for this. It helps a ton. I don't have a placed camp, I am camping solo plus I am arriving early for my volunteer shifts which gives me some control.

I have been thinking in the 4:30 to 6:00 area. Early arrivals, non-placed have to camp outside of so 103 degrees would have me roughly facing a radial, parallel to a cross street. Perhaps being between 5:30 and 6:30 side would be better.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby BBadger » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:55 pm

ZigZag wrote:So all this astro math doesn;t tell me the thing I need to know.

Assuming I can use a magnetic compass
Assuming I correct for the 14 degrees of declination
Assuming the wind is going to blow any which way it wants.

What direction should I orient my monkey hut to?


For me, I would orient the sides of your monkey hut to block the morning sun. So have the opening of your monkey hut facing due north.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby ZigZag » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:50 pm

BBadger wrote:For me, I would orient the sides of your monkey hut to block the morning sun. So have the opening of your monkey hut facing due north.


Well that was my instinct.

103 degrees is facing East South East, facing the morning sun. Jeez all this math and declinations and latitudes and stuff. Makes my head hurt.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby jasonk » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:56 pm

ZigZag wrote:103 degrees is facing East South East, facing the morning sun. Jeez all this math and declinations and latitudes and stuff. Makes my head hurt.


And the sun doesn't travel in a perfect straight line over your head. So if you have "perfect" shade on both ends at sunrise...as the day wears-on, you'll get "invasion" of light into your hut space on one end, with a shadow cast out on the other end :P

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby ZigZag » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:01 pm

jasonk wrote:And the sun doesn't travel in a perfect straight line over your head. So if you have "perfect" shade on both ends at sunrise...as the day wears-on, you'll get "invasion" of light into your hut space on one end, with a shadow cast out on the other end


True that. I live in Minnesota and this far up on the planet, the sun is never directly overhead. My monkey hut is 25 feet long with my tent in the middle. I'll probably be OK. I am totally over thinking this positioning thing.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby BBadger » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:40 pm

ZigZag wrote:
BBadger wrote:For me, I would orient the sides of your monkey hut to block the morning sun. So have the opening of your monkey hut facing due north.


Well that was my instinct.

103 degrees is facing East South East, facing the morning sun. Jeez all this math and declinations and latitudes and stuff. Makes my head hurt.


Yeah, I had to look it up myself to see what direction that corresponds to. On the chart, 103 degrees is almost exactly on the 9 AM line. That pretty much the direction I wanted to block anyway, because I don't want to see the sun at that time of day.

The nice thing about a monkeyhut is that it is generally large enough that you will always have shade during mid-day. It's only the morning (and evening) that it really matters to keep the sun out.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby BBadger » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:42 pm

New version of the sun / wind map with maximum shade angle information:

SunWind2.png
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby jasonk » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:18 pm

BBadger wrote:New version of the sun / wind map with maximum shade angle information


So I'm curious, what makes 103 the maximum shade angle?

I'd think the best angle would be whatever bisects the 6am and 8pm sun angles. The 103 angle seems to track too far sunrise-wards. Which would allow more light invasion at sunrise, and less at sunset. If anything I'd think you'd want the opposite (less invasion at sunrise, more at sunset).

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby BBadger » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:25 am

jasonk wrote:
BBadger wrote:New version of the sun / wind map with maximum shade angle information


So I'm curious, what makes 103 the maximum shade angle?

I'd think the best angle would be whatever bisects the 6am and 8pm sun angles. The 103 angle seems to track too far sunrise-wards. Which would allow more light invasion at sunrise, and less at sunset. If anything I'd think you'd want the opposite (less invasion at sunrise, more at sunset).


Hmm, now I'm not sure. I'm thinking that 103 value above (283 - 77) / 2 = 103 should be (283 + 77) / 2 = approx 180, which equally blocks sun east and west. That I do think that 103 angle still has merit. At 9AM, which is coincidentally at 103 degrees, it is pretty much in the center of the morning. While it does allow more light in at the early stages of morning, that time of day is cooler because of the preceding night. After 9AM the ambient temperatures increase above room temperature and the shade is more important. By around 11 AM the sun will have passed 45 degrees and and be glaring down from the top more than the side.

All this is kind of hand-wavy. I should probably relabel the image or back up the figure with some math.

Maybe someone else can chime in.
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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby FIGJAM » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:41 am

I think you have the "max shade angle exactly right.

See how it is parallel to the 5 o'clock spoke?

The sun passes over the length of my 40' shade since I park on the 5 spoke with the front of the truck facing sunrise.

The back of the shade is right on the spoke.

The 4' overhang on the south side keeps that side of the playapod shaded.

I've park the same way the last 5 years. 8)

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Re: BRC sun/wind direction map?

Postby ZigZag » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:59 am

This is making much more sense to me. Obviously a case of misinterpretation on my part. I was thinking the alignment to 103 meant the open ends of the MH was on the 103 axis, which is counter intuitive.

But aligning my MH perpendicular to 103 makes good sense. Practically speaking that puts me in the 4:30-5:30 neighborhood facing the cross street, not the radial which is where I was thinking I wanted to camp.

I just want to make sure that 103 degrees is what I use on my compass to align to, that correction for the declination is already built in. Is that correct or do I need to add in another 14 degrees?

Thanks everyone for your patience with me. I'm just a silly wanderer on this planet trying to find my direction and I don't always trust my compass. But I do trust you.
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