Infra-sound / Sub-sonic generator at BRC?

[dragonfly Jafe]

Does anyone know if there has been an Infra-sonic tone generator at BM before? I am specifically thinking of the lowest part of the musical tones - 16Hz - 20Hz (don't want to hurt anyone!)

Any "official" BM Project policy on the deliberate generation of high-power infra-sonic tones?

I have searched the site, archives, image gallery, etc. without any success.

Obviously such a beast would have to be out in the deep Playa, minimum distance from the city depending on how much acoustic power it generates. My biggest concern would be messing with people in altered states (or anyone that doesn't want to experience infra-sound). My concept would be user activated (and powered!), and likely would have an effective radius of several hundred feet.

Here's a sample site if you are not familiar with the concept; http://www.infrasonicmusic.co.uk/background.htm

Any thoughts welcome...

[Guest]

jafe,
ill admit i dont quite grasp the specifics but the general idea of this infrasound stuff is facinating...tell us more
-Duke

[gigglesnort]

I read a smidge about it on the link, and I'd be willing to participate in such an experiment. Very interesting, indeed!

[Anthony Bondi]

Last year, Mark Pauline of Survival Research Laboratories delivered a lecture to a UNLV art class. During the Q and A, a person in the audience expressed an interest in this subject. Mark said SRL had done a bit of experimentation with such a device and had concluded it was too dangerous for use by SRL. You might contact SRL for more details.

[Anthony Bondi]

"Hey, club kids! Do you really like D and B? We've got the superest duperest bass system you've ever heard in our camp. We'll be playing a thirty minute set at 2am. Bring your friends!"

[geekster]

Oh, BOY! More thumpa, thumpa, thumpa!

I think all of that stuff is going to be over on the 10:00 side of the city this year. BTW

[Bob]

Rave camp was two miles away in '96 and still made me puke. Literally. Experiment over.

[gigglesnort]

Wait....I think I'm confused.....I thought this was sound you couldn't hear? And did someone say that was Dangerous? Oh geez, where am I? Uh, which way is my tent.....mebbe I should just go back there until this gets worked out a bit more.....uh, see ya....maybe.....

[Tiahaar]

What about sand worms? You don't want to upset them now do you? Or their cousins the playa snakes either.

(um, SRL didn't want to touch it? Hmmmm. Elephants talk using ultra-low sound, wonder what frequencies and power levels that's at...off to research...)

[Tiahaar]

p.s. as an organ student during college days (I still play sometimes...have a "Conn" Artist model church organ tucked under my bunkbed here at home heheh, yes that is really what the company named it! ) it was a MAJOR thrill to get into the university concert hall after hours, throw on all the heavy stops on the pipe organ and play some serious Bach. Organists are truly infrasonic addicts : )

Good luck with the project dragonfly Jafe...I myself am thinking of a simple one-octave pedal/wind powered ABS pipe organ for the playa.

[gigglesnort]

Growing up a catholic girl (with no choice in the matter, I should add), I still on occasion can get into the pageantry of a mass in a cathedral, but ONLY if they light the frankinsense and ONLY if the pipe organ is piping. Oooh, gives me chills!

[Mister Jellyfish Mister]

I never got laid until I started playing bass. Is it the resonance? Please tell all.

[unjonharley]

take it to a rave camp. who cares?

[Guest]

jelly...i think is has something to do with bassists haveing very strong, very flexible fingers...i know when girls at my school found out i play bass they suddenly started paying attention to me...i must have broken so many hearts....

[dragonfly Jafe]

[quote="gigglesnort"]...I thought this was sound you couldn't hear?/quote]

Technically Infrasound is below the threshold of hearing, and depending on the intensity it may be below the threshold of perception. I am considering doing something in the 16Hz-20Hz range, which should be "hearable" when it is on. So, I am not really doing "Infrasound" but "very low bass sound" (plus true Infrasound can be dangerous!).

And it won't be a drum beat, more like a fog-horn or whale cry that is just "hearble". Almost (but not quite) sub-conscious. People up close would be able to feel it (appx. 110-115 dB @ 1M)

But I have to admit, I have many concerns about pissing people off as the effective radius could be in the miles (possibly the entire city). Much critical thinking and peer review wil have to be finished before I actually bring such a Beast...

[dragonfly Jafe]

What about sand worms? You don't want to upset them now do you? Or their cousins the playa snakes either.

(um, SRL didn't want to touch it? Hmmmm. Elephants talk using ultra-low sound, wonder what frequencies and power levels that's at...off to research...)

I'm sure if I do this, next year's Playa Serpents will be blamed (at least partially) on me. Actually, there theoretically could be an effect on the Playa -depending on the particle size, etc. I am thinking that a visible diffraction pattern may form in the Playa as airborne particles settle/don't settle in the nulls/peaks of the bass wave (which is ~46 feet long!)

Elephants communicate at something like 5 Hz - 100 Hz (with most of it in the 5-20Hz range). Interestingly enough, the jetstream can be "heard" by some people....in the 16 Hz-20Hz range

[spectabillis]

But I have to admit, I have many concerns about pissing people off as the effective radius could be in the miles (possibly the entire city). Much critical thinking and peer review wil have to be finished before I actually bring such a Beast...

go for it. it would be cool if you could keep it just below the audible range and bring it up in slow short periods.

that effect has the serious tendency to wig trippers.

[Otisserie]

And it won't be a drum beat, more like a fog-horn or whale cry that is just "hearble". Almost (but not quite) sub-conscious. People up close would be able to feel it (appx. 110-115 dB @ 1M)

But I have to admit, I have many concerns about pissing people off as the effective radius could be in the miles (possibly the entire city).

Would that be true if it was in deep playa and aimed away from the city? Granted, low frequencies fan out more than high ones, but I think you could give the interested the experience and still avoid enveloping the city in sound. Then you'd just annoy the perimeter patrol folks and the dirtbags trying to sneek in across the fence.

[klao DNA]

Last year, Mark Pauline of Survival Research Laboratories delivered a lecture to a UNLV art class. During the Q and A, a person in the audience expressed an interest in this subject. Mark said SRL had done a bit of experimentation with such a device and had concluded it was too dangerous for use by SRL. You might contact SRL for more details.

I would have to say, just off-hand, that anything that Mark Pauline thinks is too dangerous should probably be approached very, very, very, very. very carefully.....

[dragonfly Jafe]

Last year, Mark Pauline of Survival Research Laboratories delivered a lecture to a UNLV art class. During the Q and A, a person in the audience expressed an interest in this subject. Mark said SRL had done a bit of experimentation with such a device and had concluded it was too dangerous for use by SRL. You might contact SRL for more details.

I would have to say, just off-hand, that anything that Mark Pauline thinks is too dangerous should probably be approached very, very, very, very. very carefully.....

For what it is worth, I have arrived at the same conclusion. I have abondoned this idea for 2005 (probably forever). I may still bring the infrasonic measurement gear to make an "acoustic" map of BRC...

My 1/10 power prototype created way too many headaches and bad feelings in volunteers (who were fully informed, etc). I thought everyone was whining (placebo effect) until I upped the power and lowered the freq - then I got a doozy of a migraine in 5 minutes (lasted the rest of the night). Only one person thought it was "cool" feeling... obviously a range of effects depending on the subject...

...it is weird though not hearing anything despite the fcat that you can feel the pressure...

[Tiahaar]

Hey dragonfly Jafe, what kind of decibel/freq. numbers do you figure your headache causing levels were at? Enough to vibrate things in the room or just kind of an invisible/inaudible pressure sensation? Wild stuff if the latter...all sorts of nefarous uses in the wrong hands me thinks. The 110-115 db levels mentioned earlier sound scary high-powered...

Maybe bump it up an octave? Would the "bad" effects be lessened while still retaining the trippy vibrate-the-bones feeling?

[swampdog]

The tv show Mythbusters on Discovery Channel did a segment on this. They were pursuing a slightly different question - do ultra-low frequencies at high volumes cause you to lose control of your bowels? They did a very impressive test with some way cool equipment and concluded that there is no laxative effect. They did however notice irritability and headaches in the onlookers to the experiment (not subject to the high volume impact but still able to hear the ultra low freqs).

[Speed Cult]

Ok, as a bass-head I can say that sub-sonic frequencies (those below 20 Hz) can be very nerve racking. I help design car audio systems used both in SPL (sound pressure level) and SQ (sound quality). One day we played around with a box and high-excursion subwoofer. We used a laptop to generate a 11 cycles. In order for this to make any impact, we designed a port that ended up around 17 feet long. This did vibrate the building with a very low whuh-whuh-whuh sound. Was cool for around 15 minutes before we all noticed are muscles were starting to get tense, which in turned caused those nasty tension headaches. Still would like to see this sonic cannon and actually feel it.

[dragonfly Jafe]

The tv show Mythbusters on Discovery Channel did a segment on this. They were pursuing a slightly different question - do ultra-low frequencies at high volumes cause you to lose control of your bowels? They did a very impressive test with some way cool equipment and concluded that there is no laxative effect. They did however notice irritability and headaches in the onlookers to the experiment (not subject to the high volume impact but still able to hear the ultra low freqs).

Yeah, but they may have been avoiding/ignorant of the technology that supposedly achieves this effect - they were using pure tones (like I was). Allegedly there is a technique whereby the sound is composed of elements (overlaid on the main signal) that when perceived by the ear and converted to nerve impulses ends up scrambling the brain a bit, resulting in nausea and loss of bowels/motor function. This technique supposedly can also be used to create emotions inside peoples heads. Some say that this was used in the Gulf War. Most say it is a bunch of crap.

I agree with the headaches/nausea/muscle tension stuff though, and unless you are into pain and suffering that sort of "art" is not needed on the Playa (IMHO)

[HughMungus]

Forget that. Bring an EMP generator and REALLY piss people off.

[Dust33]

I would have to say, just off-hand, that anything that Mark Pauline thinks is too dangerous should probably be approached very, very, very, very. very carefully.....

You mean this Mark Pauline?