Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Talk about your camp or project's LNT plans (and MOOP problems) here. Discuss cleanup tips. Ask questions or share ideas on what works and what doesn't.
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Canoe
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Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by Canoe » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:07 pm

XPTom wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:19 pm
I have an Electrical Engineering degree and I have baked silicon wafers in ovens. My opinions on solar have a good foundation...
Air Source Heat Pump is starting to win more and more builds. We get -20 C (-4 F) on a regular basis in winter, with some occurrences of -30 C (-22 F) and sometimes -35 C (-31 F). A friend who lives out of town got rid of his propane furnace and hot water tank, and his propane stove & oven. He got a cold-rated (-40 C/F) Mitsubishi ASHP central heating/cooling (so he doesn't have to get & run separate fresh air circulation) with an aux heater. And a Heap Pump Water Tank. He's never used the aux heater (breaker off), even with it going to -35 C his first winter. They'd had a window A/C unit that saw occasional use in the summer. With the ASHP, it's quieter than any A/C he's ever seen (it's crazy quiet), and his wife and three teens were running it all the time. He also got a Bolt to replace his gas powered car, and a 240 V charger for it in his garage. With all those things switched over from propane to electricity, their usual usage, A/C all the time and adding charging the car, his monthly electric bill was still less than his monthly gas expense used to be for driving the ICE car to/from work five days a week.

I've almost got him convinced to add an air duct running from his bathroom back to the air intake on the HPWT, so when the bathroom gets heated with hot water use, more of that heat will get reclaimed by the HPWT instead of throwing it away outdoors by venting the bathroom (HPWT outputs cooled dry air and a drain line for the condensate).

He installed PV panels this spring, and his first electric bill was $20 and through the summer he's not paid but earned $30 to $40 a month, with all that electricity use. He has fixed panels facing east, south & west. He's very curious to see what his bill is through the winter with the reduced PV output.
4.669
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That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
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Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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XPTom
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Camp Name: Shipwreck Tiki Lounge

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by XPTom » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:35 am

I went to my first alternate energy symposium in 1979 when Three Mile Island, lines at the gas station, and World War Snail Darter were all current events. "Spirited debate" would be an understatement. Presenters of various energy topics took turns playing goalie against the greenies dart board team.

Last topic was the need for mass storage. The guy who invents a better battery can become a billionaire. If solar or wind could be stored for use at night or on calm days then endless arrays could be put in the desert and..... whoa... stop right there!... the desert is fragile. Scars from Patton's tanks are still visible. How dare we?....

I wondered who the heck gets so bent out of shape about god forsaken desert wasteland? Apparently future burners….. 40 short years later I'm at BRC using a 160W solar panel and a 12 volt cooler to convert hot sun into cold beer...... and I'm still waiting for that "better" battery....,
How many old burners does it take to change a light bulb? Just one to change the bulb..... and five more to reminisce how good the old bulb was....

flexibility is the key to success....... and poor planning is the key to flexibility

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Canoe
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Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by Canoe » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:46 pm

XPTom wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:35 am
... Last topic was the need for mass storage. The guy who invents a better battery can become a billionaire. ...
My friend's Dad has five silos in a cluster on his property. All still working, but only three (two?) in limited use. So store the excess PV power that hydro won't buy (limits) by motoring a weight up the silo, and at night, let the weight generate some power. Scale the weight, and upgrade with better pulleys and motor/generator as appropriate.

I really hope those solidstate batteries work out. That will be a major game changer over lithium, for the environment and for EVs, and phone charges that can last for weeks, etc.. Unfortunately, the same for that f'n noisy wheeled "robot" that your kid has scooting around in varying circles on the floor.
4.669
.
That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Toe
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Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:10 pm
Burning Since: 2016
Camp Name: Empress

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by Toe » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:03 pm

We need to LNT our CO2. One of the greatest strengths of Black Rock City is that we rebuild it each time. This gives us a unique flexibility to try new seemingly impossible ideas, create new seemingly impossible art and make seemingly impossible reductions on our carbon footprint. So more than any other place, BRC has the ability to experiment with different funding models and rapidly iterate through different ideas in search of practical solutions.

Yes, the impact of a week camping in the desert is relatively small compared to our daily lives. And yes individual actions are a drop in the bucket. But bear in mind that the proverbial bucket gets filled by cumulative individual actions.

Burning Man has a big impact on our lives and a cultural impact that punches above its weight; the world watches what we do and how we do it. Similarly, running a camp on solar has a disproportionately large impact on campmates. Year after year virgin burners thank me for giving them the experience of plugging into the sun. This little taste of solar is something we bring home with us. It's hard to stick with the notion that we can't get off gasoline when we've just thrived on solar. We shape our burn and then it shapes us.

For those of us who design and build solar for our camps, we get to develop new ideas and disseminate new skills. This helps our lives, our camps and our careers. Developing and testing new tech is probably the biggest draw for me to keep coming back.

So if we want to prototype our future, BRC might well be the ideal test site. Maybe throwing $20 in the hat is an exceptionally cost effective way to get us closer to LNT with our CO2.

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A-RockLeFrench
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Camp Name: THREAT
Location: USA

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:51 am

don't tell me what my burn "needs"

have fun with your solar, but I need that 20 bucks for gas for my generator so I can power my big loud obnoxious sound system.

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Token
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Location: Gold Country, CA

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by Token » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:04 am

We should totally do a central power grid run exclusively on steam engines, fueled by the millions of dead drought and bark beetle trees from California.

Each participant must bring a chord of firewood, all blockchain tract to an already deceased tree.

Alternatively you can bring a market hog for the feast and revels at the steam engines for artisans to make bacon and sausage.

Call it the “Engine District” with small crafts, blacksmiths, glass blowers, smelters and casters.

And Bacon, endless bacon.

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XPTom
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Camp Name: Shipwreck Tiki Lounge

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by XPTom » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:16 am

Token wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:04 am
We should totally do a central power grid run exclusively on steam engines, fueled by the millions of dead drought and bark beetle trees from California...….. And Bacon, endless bacon.
I'm with you on everything from steam engine thru bacon, if only this was a winter festival called "Freezing Man". I've looked at the steam engine at Furnace Creek and charcoal kilns at Death Valley and wondered if the fireman's job was a condition of the Governor's Pardon? BTW.... if we ever cross paths at BM come by for kielbasa properly smoked with cherry wood.
How many old burners does it take to change a light bulb? Just one to change the bulb..... and five more to reminisce how good the old bulb was....

flexibility is the key to success....... and poor planning is the key to flexibility

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some seeing eye
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Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Dec 26, 2019 10:37 am

Power on the playa will be unlimited with the commercialization of small cold fusion reactors by Google-LG-Mitsubishi.

If the BORG plan for world domination works out, by 2050 the BLM will have sold all the land adjacent to Fly and the playa itself to the BORG. There will be a giant Arcology on the slope from the ranch down to the playa for wealthy retired burners who can take their personal flying vehicles to and from the event. The playa itself will be home to several Black Rock Cities, enabled by aggressive drainage and sequestration of the Winter floods as a water source. Solar will power vegetable greenhouses, artificial meat culturing, and aquafarming. There will be a giant pyramid to inter the founders which will be a destination for cult adherents. They will continue to operate the BORG as AIs. 447 will be widened to 6 lanes from Wadsworth on up 34. Gerlach will have its own international airport and be a pleasure dome - a mini Las Vegas.

Image

That all takes money, so give early and often!
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Token
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Location: Gold Country, CA

Re: Burning Man Project wants more of your $$$

Post by Token » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:43 pm

Far out man. Love it!

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