MOOP Map Live 2013

Talk about your camp or project's LNT plans (and MOOP problems) here. Discuss cleanup tips. Ask questions or share ideas on what works and what doesn't.
maladroit
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 23, 2013 6:38 pm

Bikes are a special case, I guess, since they're mobile. If you go into your neighbor's plot and take down their tent and pack it in your truck, there's not really any gray area (unless they came up to you and stated they were abandoning it).

So it looks like everyone should just take care of their own campsite. If you want to be a good person and pick up MOOP in other people's jurisdiction, join Restoration? And of course continue to pick up obvious MOOP in the open playa and streets.

Perhaps there's a big "phantom douchenozzle" factor where some camps keep leaving their garbage and their neighbors keep de-MOOPing their plot, so Placement keeps letting them come back.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Eric » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:42 pm

tamarakay wrote:No one is questioning your opinion or arguing really. I am simply more than a little surprised bikes should be left. From now on bikes will be wheeled to the street and left there for someone else to deal with. And I'll try not to feel like a shit about it.


I think the reasoning behind the bikes is clear - most of the "abandoned" bikes are actually bikes that were... "borrowed" *cough* during the week, and just dumped somewhere by the thief "borrower". Leaving them for Lost Bikes to deal with means people might actually get back a bike they had no intention of leaving behind.

Example, from my own camp: in 2010 one of our camp-mates had her bike stolen from our camp sometime between Temple Burn & Monday when we got up. Ultimately her fault, since she didn't see why she should have to lock it on the last night, but she still lost a bike she loved, with decorations put on it over the years (she had had it for 5 years, I think). She checked Lost Bikes, but it wasn't turned in... somebody probably did what they thought was a good thing & took it home with them.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby shroom » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:19 pm

Is this the first year the moop map has been so detailed? I'm finding it very interesting this year. I love that people are taking so much time to record all of these details.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Odie » Mon Sep 23, 2013 8:45 pm

hum, maybe that google earth art car can cruise the city recording all the camp sites and Moopiest of the moopy, naw f' that lets all LNT.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:27 am

The map was detailed for a short period last year, but after enough people used it as a tool for public shaming and internet bullying, playa restoration switched gears and went back to the less detailed map. Fingers crossed, hopefully this year things don't get ugly between here, blog comments, FB and a few other social spots... and we can continue to get the more detailed map.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Drawingablank » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:17 pm

maladroit wrote:
trilobyte wrote:Do not haul any bike off the playa unless it belongs to you or a campmate/friend. The right thing to do with abandoned bikes is to leave them where they lay.


OK, so bikes, specifically, don't affect the MOOP map? A large theme camp that is completely clean except for 12-15 bikes scattered around would still receive a green mark without any of those red hotspots and it wouldn't be mentioned by placement the next year?

I find most people are concerned about leaving bikes in their former camp location, so they either feel they have to take them off playa or they drag them over to the nearest porta potties.


Perhaps more of a spotlight needs to be put on this. We were a group of 12 or 15 veteran burners (3 or more burns each) and none of us was aware of this policy. At least 6 of us are eplaya regulars too, and I know many eplayans read everything they can regarding BM.

We were just trying to deal with what we considered a huge moop liability with our already overloaded vehicles.

Regardless, we know about it for future burns.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby unjonharley » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:38 pm

I would imagine bikes some bikes are left because they are to hard to fit onto a load.. Most do not realize it is an easy matter to remove the peddles and loosen the handle bars.. The makes for easy loading for transport.. This simple knowledge might make for fewer bike left on the playa..

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Elliot » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:11 pm

I do that with every bicycle I haul. Trouble is, most perfectly normal people today never had a chance to learn even such basic mechanics. And with pedals they have to know about the left-hand threads on the left pedal. So I fear it is not realistic to teach this to the burning masses. Probably better to reinforce the basic concept of You-bring-it-in,-you-bring-it-out.

Some people certainly do "get" this. (Caution, anecdote ahead.) Saturday or Sunday a burner from a foreign land saw my "Unwanted Bicycles Accepted" sign, and arranged with me to drop off his whole camp's bicycles -- six or eight or ten, I forget exactly -- on Monday. By Monday, I had put out a "No More Bikes, Please. I Cannot Carry More" sign. But I had neglected to add -- which I had very much intended, but it slipped my mind -- "Except By Prior Arrangement", of which I had several.

When the foreigner and his group arrived with their bikes and saw the new sign, they were devastated. Absolutely devastated at the thought of having to leave their bikes as moop. ...Until I explained about our prior agreement. The relief on their faces! Good folks, them furriners. :D
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Sundial » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:15 pm

Yep. Looks like we're off the hook. =p

Patsh wrote:We were at 5:00 and Interstellar, (lower left corner of the intersection, as the map sits) and our spot is green. There's a yellow rectangle to our left, toward 5:15, where they had a pretty big fire at least one windy night.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby MyDearFriend » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:41 pm

I would like to have some guidance in writing regarding what, exactly, we should do with objects found abandoned in our village after the Burn. After 3 Burns in a large village I can tell you we find all kinds of crazy shit, stuff that was either left behind or dumped under cover of darkness, and our understanding was that we had to haul it all away or risk being black-listed by Placement.

If there is a different set of acceptable actions for abandoned bikes, tents, cameras, furniture, bags of garbage etc then I don't see how we are supposed to know what to do with each different thing unless we have specific written instructions. :? Or, if that's more work than the BMOrg can tackle at this point, then, I think "haul it all away" is the only right thing to do. If our choice is to be black-listed by Placement or arrested for bike theft, well, the theft charge would apply only to me, while the black-listing would impact our entire huge village. So I know where my duty lies. :|
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:42 pm

And here's the day 4 update on the MOOP Map Live blog.

Image

Congrats to all the camps involved - that's a whole hellofa lot of green in there, and looking at the last couple days' results closely it looks like a bunch of returning theme camps seriously upped their games in the LNT department.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:05 pm

@myDearFriend, see below...

A camp or village (no matter how great or small) needs to be responsible for the area of land that it occupies. In the case of becoming a target dumping ground, if that's happening regularly then the village leaders should give some serious thought about how the village is organized, and what makes people treat them like the town dump, and what steps should be taken to prevent that. Layout changes (so there are fewer 'dead spots'), organizational changes (get a new LNT officer, or add to your village's LNT leadership), or just adding more coverage to watch over the space (especially on big burn nights).

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the difference between a potentially lost item (such as a bike, bracelet, digital camera, etc) and trash. The only thing that's changed with regards to bikes has been that this year, people did not need to take abandoned bikes to a centralized spot - just leave them where they were. As I mentioned previously, if you're concerned about bikes affecting your cleanup or LNT efforts, then take them to the street at the frontage of the camp.

If you or a campmate brought a lost item from the playa home with you, post about it on the Found items board. We keep them open and at the front of the site up until tickets go on sale for the following year's event.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby BBadger » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:11 pm

Ah good, the camp I'm usually with is nice and green.

trilobyte wrote:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the difference between a potentially lost item (such as a bike, bracelet, digital camera, etc) and trash. The only thing that's changed with regards to bikes has been that this year, people did not need to take abandoned bikes to a centralized spot - just leave them where they were. As I mentioned previously, if you're concerned about bikes affecting your cleanup or LNT efforts, then take them to the street at the frontage of the camp.


I don't think she asking about the difference between trash and goods, but rather what to do with "Lost and Found" type items that, for one reason or another, do not belong to members of the camp. For bikes the policy is to just leave them where they be because the items could be considered stolen otherwise. For other items, however, is leaving a heap of such items at the front of the camp the "official policy" regarding these types of items? It seems that this could end up being abused as a means of leaving one-use tents and other abandoned-but-usable "gifts" that people don't want to haul home. Or is taking these things home to possibly find their owner via the Lost and Found boards the proper protocol? Some such items could be worth more than the bikes.

Also, even the most diligent LNT officer cannot cover all cases. Sometimes there are camps adjacent to your own and stuff gets left, or there are lone burners who creep into available space near camps. It could even be something like a backpack left in the camp that some person lost while out of his mind. Camp borders are also somewhat blurred unless fences are put up, especially during deconstruction. By the end you might be left with more than what you came in with.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby maladroit » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:35 pm

This is definitely a tightrope act. I think most people have been confused about what BMORG considers more important: Leave No Trace or Taking Abandoned Stuff Is Theft. They are conflicting concepts when someone is cleaning up their camp.

If BMORG comes down hard on Leave No Trace (as has been the case so far) then people will be worried about that above all else. They will attempt to remove every item visible to the naked eye within the borders of their camp. BMORG also likes to complain about the number of bikes left behind, so abandoned bikes have been considered MOOP according to every interaction I've witnessed so far on the playa.

But if BMORG makes it too public that taking bikes from your camp is theft, and you should just leave them where they are, then a lot of unsavory individuals will use that as an excuse to abandon even more bikes, knowing that it won't get them in trouble. Same goes for other camp equipment...if all anyone has to do is say "This ended up in our camp, here you go Lost & Found" then the pile of crappy Wal-Mart tents will be truly epic.

So what happens is that BMORG continues to stress "Leave No Trace" and people dutifully clean up their camps even it it's not their own junk...and then BMORG shames them for doing it.

BUT...I want to make this clear...I don't think BMORG can do it any differently. I don't think it's possible to make it widespread knowledge that you're supposed to leave homeless bikes on the playa, without reinforcing the idea that you can get a crappy bike off Craigslist and just leave it behind.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby FIGJAM » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:39 pm

Yup, don't give anybody any excuse to leave ANYTHING behind or they will.............to excess!!!!!!! :x
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Official policy is pretty simple. Leave bikes where they lay, do not remove them from the playa without the owner's permission. For other Lost & Found items, take them to Playa Info, which is open for L&F business through labor day.

If for some reason you're not able to do that, post the found items on the message board. You may also care to reach out to the Lost & Found team via the contact info on the main site to let them know, since most people would go to them in search of lost items first (while ePlaya's been growing, we still only serve a small fraction of the burner community).

The thing the bike-takers are failing to realize is that the vast majority of those bikes are not really abandoned. They're lost or stolen. Here's what the scenario is in almost every case of a lost or stolen bike... Some jackass pedals off with somebody else's bike, because they're far from sober and confuse it for their own, or because they're a jackass who's lazy and figures that instead of walking they'll just take this bike right in front of them. That person goes to wherever the fuck they're going (or in some cases to the camp next to wherever the fuck they're going) and then they ditch the bike. On to the next adventure. Next time they need a bike, they just rinse and repeat (some jackasses will attempt to keep using the same bike, many don't).

So, come the end of the event, there are thousands of bikes laying around the playa. It's not because thousands of people intentionally abandoned them, it's because bike and owner got separated. The established L&F process has the resources to deal with abandoned bikes on the playa and a pretty high degree of success at reuniting people with their lost stuff. I think MDF said Ken's bike went missing - if he doesn't get it back, it's because some jackass pedaled it off because it was a convenient ride, and then some other jackass took home the abandoned bikes they found.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby ranger magnum » Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:34 pm

Trilo, do you actually have statistics that prove bikes left on playa are lost/stolen rather than abandoned? Id like to know how the borg could know this. When I was in a bike repair camp, we had dozens of bikes left by participants because they couldnt take them home. Most of these people were from other countries.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby 666isMONEY » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:12 am

On Monday (labor day, afternoon) I usually see a large 25-foot flat-bed truck (staked on the sides) filled with bikes. (I've seen this mentioned before on eplaya, the local native-americans do it). This year a nice, new silver pickup truck went speeding by my car. Shortly thereafter, a neighbor in a school bus, about 300-feet away came over and asked if I saw a clothing rack. I said, "a clothing rack!?, no but there was a pipe over there that looked like it came from a clothing rack . . . I think it fell off a speeding silver pickup truck."

Monday afternoon is weird on the playa. . .

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:32 am

I'm not saying that nobody abandons bikes, but if you look at the number of posts and reports of lost/stolen bikes each year, it accounts for greater than half of the number of bikes recovered from the playa. What you saw was a small number of people who were at least trying to do the right thing in finding somebody who wanted it. If the owner grants you permission, go for it.

It also makes a fuckton of sense, when you think about it. Do you really think the asshat who's too stupid or lazy to bring his/her own bike is going to grab the nearest opportunity and then suddenly become a responsible human who cares for the bike they just grabbed and takes it home with them? No, they don't become more responsible. They're lazy and stupid, and very likely don't have a bike rack or some other easy means to transport the thing home.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby fresh » Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:25 pm

Just wondering the amount of bikes in which someone claims it was stolen, but in reality they were just wasted and have no clue where they left it!!!

One of my fellow campmates walked past the same bike, backpack, and leather jacket for 3 days. It was in the open playa right next to the cat tree. He ended up taking the bag and jacket to PI, and we moved the bike to the border of our camp, about 50 yards away from where it was. Much better there than in the open playa where unaware bicyclist or MV drivers could run it over. It sat there until Tuesday when the flatbed came by and picked up all the green and abandoned bikes.

Who the hell leaves their jacket, backpack, and bike in the middle of everything, and then forgets to take it?????
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby shroom » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:47 pm

I do love the details and hope it continues, even if there is public shaming. People have to be responsible.
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:50 am

There's a difference between people being responsible and people using the map to play vigilante or to justify internet bullying. Show some respect for the team that's actually doing the work cleaning up after everybody, and use the map for its intended purpose.

Turning back to the blog for a moment, huge kudos to the Temple Of Whollyness LNT team! I mean, wow! Seriously. The temple is one of the most visited sites on the playa, and historically has been a hell of a lot of work to try and MOOP. This is the best LNT effort made by any temple crew, starting from before the event and continuing through post-burn cleanup. Check out the blog post for details and awesome pics, and huge thanks to everyone on the crew not only for building such a beautiful structure, but going to such lengths to leave no trace.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby VultureChow » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:56 am

trilobyte wrote:There's a difference between people being responsible and people using the map to play vigilante or to justify internet bullying.


Reading about Black Rock Roller Disco and how they have gone from red to yellow to green definitely changed my perspective a lot. It's easy to look at a red spot and scream and shame and want to ban the camp. But if that had been done, then no more roller disco.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:16 am

The Roller Disco is a great example. And while it hasn't been covered in the blog, kudos to the Black Rock French Quarter! They had a full block of solid red for a couple years running - but this year they turned things around and got really serious about it, and they were almost entirely green. I'll also give a shout out to Nexus, a big sound camp at 10:00 & GDP. Like most other sound camps, they've had a pretty checkered/MOOPy past. Over the years, they've stepped their efforts up, but were still not getting great scores. This year, though, they not only brought a brand new Pyrosphere, but they brought their A game in the LNT department, and the camp scored green. Not only that, but their dancefloor space and artspace (where the pyrosphere was installed)... also clean.

Image

If you look at the summary pic of years past, you'll see that the trend for the city is steady improvement. I think that's because, generally speaking, the returning camps are trying harder and taking the additional steps needed, and new camps are kicking ass and helping to raise the bar. It's a nice affirmation that people are generally good and will do the right thing, if given the opportunity.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby maladroit » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:41 pm

Oh right, I was going to go look at past years...huh. On a city-wide basis, if the remaining area is nearly all green then we might beat 2012. The outer three roads are already way worse this year, but I'd wager that's because they were far more populated.

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby VultureChow » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:39 pm

I know shaming isn't allowed, but I assume gloating is.

GREEN!!!!

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby Elliot » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:41 pm

YESSS!!! Green, of course. Not that I had any doubt. It's just fun to see it on the map also.:D

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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby trilobyte » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:00 pm

Gloating and cheering is definitely allowed (and encouraged)... Here's the day 5 results blog. And here's the map...

Image

There were some map revisions (as mentioned in the blog post), so check your camp space again. I'll also repost the note from DA below...

Dear Black Rock City,
The MOOP Map is a working record of our speed of progress, and we haven’t finalized all the exact locations. While we are confident in our MOOP Map findings, they are by no means final; it takes longer than the two week Restoration period to actually comb through all the MOOP data.

Even when the map is all colored in, it is still not final until we say it’s final, weeks from now.

Once we’re done and satisfied with the findings, we will release the final MOOP Map and give the Placement team a full report that they can use to talk to camps.

As you know, we are under a tight deadline to finish mooping the city in time for the BLM inspection. Nevertheless, we are committed to releasing our daily progress on the MOOP Map. We are now in the review stage, where we triple check all our data and GPS waypoints.

We love and support all the theme camps of Burning Man, and the MOOP Map is not meant to be taken personally or shamefully. We understand that theme camps spend an entire week gifting to the Burning Man community, and sometimes fall short of Leaving No Trace as a result of the massive scale of their endeavors. We are proud to back all of your LNT efforts, and support the unquantifiable beauty of our community.

We thank all the citizens of Black Rock City for your LNT efforts, and for the immeasurable contributions you bring. For those who have yellow or red scores, we only ask for improvement so that Burning Man can continue to happen as we all work together to Leave No Trace.

— D.A.
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Black Rock City Department of Public Works
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby TT120 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:03 pm

GREEN!!!!!
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Re: MOOP Map Live 2013

Postby danibel » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:10 pm

Yay! Happy to see that the last day moop sweep by me and a campmate ensured a total green mark for Camp D'nile. I shamed the heck out of my campmates last year after they left a HUGE mess on Sunday. Also, the handfuls of zip ties and other stuff I picked up on my treks to the JOTS helped my neighbors in the next block get a green light. Yay!

I would love to be part of the resto crew at some point. Not sure how that happens, but it's something I would enjoy being a part of. And on that note I just want to send a HUGE shout out to the Resto Team. You people rock. Thank you so much for your hard work!!!
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