POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Talk about your camp or project's LNT plans (and MOOP problems) here. Discuss cleanup tips. Ask questions or share ideas on what works and what doesn't.
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MyDearFriend
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby MyDearFriend » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:31 am

I carry vinegar water in a one-ounce spray bottle, always, to use on the JOTS seat before and on me, afterwards. 8) Clean & fresh.

Gonna start carrying zip-ties now too, to close up any JOTS that have been nastyfied. Thanks Robbi for all your hard work!!!
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby graidawg » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:41 am

MyDearFriend wrote:I carry vinegar water in a one-ounce spray bottle, always, to use on the JOTS seat before and on me, afterwards. 8) Clean & fresh.

Gonna start carrying zip-ties now too, to close up any JOTS that have been nastyfied. Thanks Robbi for all your hard work!!!


that would have saved me a crisis last year. that and having a flashlight (my own fault i gave my spare to a poor unfortunate that didn't have one, then mine failed me)
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Drawingablank » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:45 am

graidawg wrote:
MyDearFriend wrote:I carry vinegar water in a one-ounce spray bottle, always, to use on the JOTS seat before and on me, afterwards. 8) Clean & fresh.

Gonna start carrying zip-ties now too, to close up any JOTS that have been nastyfied. Thanks Robbi for all your hard work!!!


that would have saved me a crisis last year. that and having a flashlight (my own fault i gave my spare to a poor unfortunate that didn't have one, then mine failed me)

I wish you had said something, I always bring a few spare flashlights to the burn. It's not like we were camped so far apart.
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby graidawg » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:56 am

oh i had flashlights, just not at that time. with that pottie.

now can we just pretend it never happened and talk no more about it.
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Captain Goddammit » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:23 pm

Couldn't you just light a fart?
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby BoyScoutGirl » Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:44 pm

In a confined space like that?

Image
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robbidobbs
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:47 am

theCryptofishist wrote:Actually, I believe Robbidobbs has realized that there is a way people can hover--if you lift the seat and then hover, or even squat, then any mess (barring incredible grossness) will not effect people who sit using the seat.
I'd wait for her word on this, but I'm fairly certain this is part of her drill.


That's exactly right! Thank you Fishie for putting the word out.
This year I have about 20 butt-ins that say "Hoverers! Don't do it wrong!"
I'll be in my blanket fort until further notice.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:58 am

MyDearFriend wrote:Gonna start carrying zip-ties now too, to close up any JOTS that have been nastyfied. Thanks Robbi for all your hard work!!!

Excellent MDF! Please remember kind participants, that "nastiness" means that the seat or lid has been shat upon. Do NOT zip the door if the seat is wet, it could be just water. Just wipe it down w tp and do your biz. Your epidermis is extraordinarily resilient.
Another instance that it's encouraged to zip it is if the unit is full or so close to full that it won't last the night. NOT if it has moop in it.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Thecatman » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:03 am

Image
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby chuckularone » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:33 am

Saw this elsewhere. I wonder how long it would take for the poop to desiccate? :twisted:

fieldExpedientDumpBucket.jpg
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Jackass » Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:52 am

Just use the blue rooms like everybody else, a bucket with turds drying out in camp is just gross!

Now, if we have a condition "Alpha", that same turd bucket shall be revered.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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robbidobbs
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:15 am

If a lined bucket is used, please POUR out the contents into the toilet. What makes a horrible mess is when some ass munch drops the whole bag into the hole. And "biodegradable" bags don't help. The maximum time between cleanings is 4 hours.
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby chuckularone » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:04 pm

I was joking.... :roll:
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robbidobbs
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:07 pm

Not offended, just want to keep things in perspective. I found the same pic on FB and they weren't joking.

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Jackass
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Jackass » Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:19 pm

chuckularone wrote:I was joking.... :roll:



That is rather deluxe DIY, it's simple. The only moving parts are yours! hopefully,if all goes well...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby +Freya+ » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:58 am

We use "wag bags" when wheeling...work wonderfully and easy to pack!

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby Jovankat » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:10 am

How do people dispose of used luggable loo bags etc? I saw plenty of "no human waste" signs post burn.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby AntiM » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:52 am

We have the bucket and seat with a lid, but do not use a liner bag. Yes, it smells bad and you have to empty it right away in the morning. Mostly I just pee in mine, but it is nice to have in camp in case of "emergency evacuation". It gets sanitized at home, and travels in the utility trailer.

We don't use a wag bag simply because emptying a potty bucket is no more trouble than packing out a wag bag. Cheaper for sure.
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:34 pm

I'd only do this in an emergency, because having poop near your living space is just awful...more awful than any porta potty experience within reason.

Assuming a condition Alpha where all the portas are full up, I'd get a bucket (have several in camp for various uses) and layer the turds with handfuls of dry playa. Ought to cut down on the juicy festering aspect and turn it into more of a litterbox situation.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:13 pm

We were indeed staring down that barrel if fun at mudpocylips. Shit in a bucket or make friends w your RV neighbor.serious shit.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby GreyCoyote » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:20 pm

maladroit wrote:Assuming a condition Alpha where all the portas are full up, I'd get a bucket (have several in camp for various uses) and layer the turds with handfuls of dry playa. Ought to cut down on the juicy festering aspect and turn it into more of a litterbox situation.


Just as an experiment, I actually tried this approach with a bucket containing a liter of urine. After two days in the sun inside the dome it had no real odor. So it would work in a pinch, but I think if a few thousand folks did this and dumped it into the JOTS, we'd have a real problem.

Next year I'm bringing pH paper and we will see what playa dust does to the solution with data points every few hours.
Last edited by GreyCoyote on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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robbidobbs
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:24 pm

Dumping mud into the bucket isn't a good solution. You get concrete when it dries. I don't want to see poo bricks in my jots, thanks. Nor cat litter, nor sawdust. Just shit and tp, just like momma used to make.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby maladroit » Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:32 pm

Oh no, if you make a litterbox, you take that precious piece of playa home with you. No pee in the poop bucket either (if at all possible).

The discussion here is what to do when the JOTS are packed full to seat, unusable, all zip tied. This is a dimension outside the robbidobbs poo-niverse.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:39 am

Nope it's square on top of it! I understand the situation all too clear: I spoke of what to do in my VMIR interview on Monday. What I have to consider is stupid proofing. There are people that would think it's ok to dump playa mud in the shitters in large quantities. The lockdown for me would be to go to all the Pottie banks, check for fullness, and zip them. It's a looming nightmare I think about every year when it rains. This was the first year that we had a deluge worthy of this contingency plan. Primarily, my goal is to keep them adequately available, but protected from the 6" above the rim effect so Helen at Health Dept doesn't get tense. Fortunately for all of us the rain stopped before it all went to shit.

The best advice for the city at this juncture is to make sure the sewage can be pumped blazing fast, like shit through a goose. I spoke constantly on PA after the sun came out, to keep trash and wipes out of the potties, so there would be no delays in the pumping. As it was, the USS guys were already behind schedule by Monday due to pre event losing 3 days from rain. CO and I carefully monitored their demeanor. They were fine, bit incredibly busy. So if you ever see a truck rolling to a bank, get people to get the bikes out of the way, educate them to wait for the drivers to waive them in so their rhythm isn't jacked, and encourage them to entertain the guys so everyone's tension is released. I did this all week, and I could sure use some help.

Thanks!
I'll be in my blanket fort until further notice.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby SourPatch » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:37 pm

Jovankat wrote:How do people dispose of used luggable loo bags etc? I saw plenty of "no human waste" signs post burn.


I always thought they could be disposed as trash in the landfill. From the BLM website:
When reducing bulk and weight is a high priority, single-use, individual bag products are available which consist of a heavy-duty ziplocking
bag containing a special powder. The powder inside the bag turns liquid to gel on contact, neutralizes odors, and helps to
break down the waste. Many of these bag products are approved for disposal in a landfill (check local laws to determine what is legal
for use in the area you will be visiting).

http://www.blm.gov/or/resources/recreat ... oilets.pdf

What we do is separate urine and poo. Urine gets dumped daily into the porta-a-potty. Each poo gets treated with the dissecating powder, the poo bag gets placed inside a ziplock bag, and the ziplog bags get stored inside a 5 gallon bucket with a screw-on lid. In the end of the burn, we dispose of it for $5 along with our trash bags (entire sealed bucket). It worked GREAT for us and we are proud to handle our own shit (pun intended).

We intend to repeat our system this year, but reading the Survival Guide, it says
Exodus Trash & Recycling Network
Saturday, September 5 – Wednesday, September 9. Free recycling. Trash is $5 per 35-gallon trash bag. Recycle bicycles, plastics, glass, metals, paper, cardboard, plastic bags, household batteries, and non-perishable food and water. Clean, sort, and de-bag recyclables before depositing. Human and other hazardous waste is prohibited! Proceeds from recyclables go to Black Rock Solar, Whole Kids Foundation, and other community programs in the region. Food and water go to Food Banks.

Am I in violation of the local laws? Anyone can point me to the correct local regulation?
Overkill or go home.

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robbidobbs
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby robbidobbs » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:48 pm

Not a good idea as I suspect that trash is hand sorted.
I invite you to enjoy my art project for poop, piddle bottles for camp use.

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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby mudpuppy000 » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:16 pm

Jackass wrote:Just use the blue rooms like everybody else, a bucket with turds drying out in camp is just gross!

Now, if we have a condition "Alpha", that same turd bucket shall be revered.


It's also a great way to spread disease. Flies land in the poop, then go looking for something else to eat, like your burrito.

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SourPatch
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby SourPatch » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:56 am

robbidobbs wrote:Not a good idea as I suspect that trash is hand sorted.

The place where we disposed of our trash and poop bucket had a huge trash dumpster. We tossed our shit inside ourselves, so I am sure it did not get sorted by hand in that location.
If the trash were to be sorted by hand at the landfill facility, I hope the bucket held up, the ziplock bags stayed sealed, the poop bags remained intact, and the poop desiccated/broke down enough. In the end, this system IS intended to be disposed in the landfill and it is not too different than disposing of dog shit.

Now, regarding the legality of it, BMOrg does not address individual human waste disposal. The law posted on their website says
A person who places, deposits or dumps, or who causes to be placed, deposited or dumped, or who causes or allows to overflow, any sewage, sludge, cesspool or septic tank effluent, or accumulation of human excreta, or any solid waste, in or upon any street, alley, public highway or road in common use, or upon any public park or other public property other than property designated or set aside for such a purpose by the governing body having charge thereof, or upon any private property, is guilty of:...
Found here: http://burningman.org/event/preparation ... -disposal/

I have contacted the Nevada Division of Environmental Protection (http://ndep.nv.gov/bwm/staff_directory04.htm) explaining what I have been doing and asking for clarification. I'll let you know what they say. Hopefully I am not a criminal. :wink:
Overkill or go home.

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SourPatch
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby SourPatch » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:49 pm

Turns out the Nevada Division of Public and Behavioral Health is the health authority for Burning Man. Here is their response:
I have reviewed your email concerning sewage waste disposal at Burning Man. The Nevada Division of Public and Behavioral Health is the Health Authority at Burning Man and offers the following:

1. The use of a private toilet/privacy tent is allowed and would not be regulated by the Health Authority. Removal of the waste from the Playa at the end of the event would be the responsibility of the camp using the toilet. Disposal of human waste at a road-side garbage collection area is not allowed. The collected sewage would need to be taken to a dump that accepts human waste or to a sewage treatment plant.

2. An alternative to removing the waste from the Playa at the end of the event would be to arrange disposal through the contracted sewage collection entity (United Site Services). For a nominal fee, they collect waste from rvs and other camping vehicles. I am not familiar with the method you are proposing, however, I suspect arrangements could be made to dispose of the waste through United Site Services.

3. A permit is not required to have a “private” portable toilet. Many such units are located within camps at Burning Man and are maintained through a contract with United Site Services.

In summary, use of a private portable toilet is authorized and does not require a permit from the Health Authority. Disposal of the waste must be done in a sanitary manner directly to a sewage treatment plant, approved sewage hauler or dump. A roadside garbage collection station would not be an appropriate location to dispose of human waste.


Looks like I will be searching for an approved dump site for my poop bucket this year. :oops:
Overkill or go home.

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SourPatch
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Re: POOP! CACA! DODO! LOG!

Postby SourPatch » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:39 pm

I did some research and found out I am probably using the wrong words to explain my waste problem.
Every time I mention "human waste," I get an immediate "we can't accept human waste in our facility." After a lot of back and forth between me, the manufacturers of these poop bags, Waste Management, and the Nevada Division of Public and Behavioral Health, I am sure I did not and will not be breaking any laws by disposing used poop bags in regular trash.

I believe the nails in the coffin are 1) the attached letter from the Nevada's Bureau of Waste Management, 2) the BLM website naming the bags I use, and 3) the US Environmental Protection Agency's Public Comments Analysis Report. Check page Q-80 (82 on my PDF reader).

1) Image

2) https://www.blm.gov/or/permit/info/portabletoiletinfo

3) EPA's Report: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwi3-P6whdnGAhVQfpIKHfcfDuw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fparkplanning.nps.gov%2FshowFile.cfm%3FprojectID%3D33225%26MIMEType%3Dapplication%25252Fpdf%26filename%3DWSPFEIS_Appendix_Q_Public%2520Comment%2520Analysis%2520Report.pdf%26sfid%3D206373&ei=YCykVbfID9D8yQT3v7jgDg&usg=AFQjCNHX4IybEgvoXHg2Vpl0pZE4a78IFw&sig2=an0HsBLOd-HGHRpJh_yW5w&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw

My conscious will be clean when I dispose of my week's worth of poop bags in the dumpster on my way home. :D

Hopefully others in the future see this post and do not reinvent the wheel.
Overkill or go home.


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