How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Talk about your camp or project's LNT plans (and MOOP problems) here. Discuss cleanup tips. Ask questions or share ideas on what works and what doesn't.
Jaq
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How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Jaq » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:12 am

I remember scooping up a jar of swamp water when I was a little kid. I thought it was full of baby fishes and set it on my dresser. Lo and behold, the 'baby fishes' soon disappeared and my bedroom had it's own resident swarm of mosquitoes.

So evap pools. Bleach? Vinegar? Sulfuric acid?

What do you think?

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GreyCoyote
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby GreyCoyote » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:41 am

Ummm.... throw-in a hippie? :mrgreen:
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torrey.smith
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby torrey.smith » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:42 am

This is a new reason that I will add to the list of why I have several 275 gallon containers getting serviced for fresh and grey water throughout the event.

Water is one of the primary resources that a civilization learns to control and manage. Grey water sludge MOOP is some of the nastiest stuff I've encountered on MOOP sweeps.

BRC is to big for evap ponds IMHO.
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Wigwam
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Wigwam » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:54 am

Tell them to just say "No". That usually works...right?
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby skippy3k » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:54 am

Condoms?
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Canoe
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Canoe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:02 pm

Coming to BRC, evap-pond Toxic creeping bugs!

I assume that the contaminants (or trace bleach?) will keep them out of it. Or not, and they die/drown?
Take photos!
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:14 pm

If it's dry at the end of the day, you're probably not breeding anything. And if it isn't, it's probably over loaded.
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tatonka
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby tatonka » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:17 pm

they die in soapy water .
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Popeye
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Popeye » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:25 pm

Stink bugs don't breed in water they lay eggs under leaves.

The "classic" and government endorsed way to kill larva in ponds, from the 1950's-1960's, is to pour motor oil in the pond. Oxygen cannot get into the water and anything coming out will be covered in oil and suffocate.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby asr9754 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:38 pm

A little bit of bleach should prevent and kill mosquito larvae, you don't need much, just a cap-full should treat 2-3 gallons. If you see living larvae in the evap pond, increase the dose STAT. You'd need to re-apply the bleach daily, as UV and air exposure breaks down bleach pretty quickly.

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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:40 pm

I don't think a week is long enough for mosquitos to breed. Having said that, many bugs are attracted to humidity, and evap ponds are fucking disgusting.

One more reason to consider treating/sprinkling or just hauling your grey water out - you hauled it in, I know y'all got space to haul it out.
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melodiousdirge
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:41 pm

asr9754 wrote:A little bit of bleach should prevent and kill mosquito larvae


If you're going to go as far as adding bleach, there's a compelling argument to be made for filtering and sprinkling your grey water instead of using an evap pond.
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asr9754
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby asr9754 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:49 pm

Yeah, I like treat/filter/sprinkle too. Well, with another 1st step: Conserve/treat/filter/sprinkle.
But for those that don't/can't/ or insist on an evap pond or other standing reservoir with water pump, I think a shot of bleach is an easy way to limit larvae and bacteria sloshing around. Larvae develop quicker in warm water and some campers are out there for more than a week, so I'll pack a pint of bleach in my kit.
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The CO
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby The CO » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:01 pm

The classic evap pond works great if built, used, and maintained correctly. I'd say 90% of people don't use or maintain them correctly.

As noted by above, if you have enough standing water in your evap pond to breed insects, then your pond is drastically overloaded

We use a variation on a pumped cascade with a reservoir that only holds 5 gallons, and is never standing water. I always add a dash of bleach each day to kill off bacterial ick.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:15 pm

The CO wrote:The classic evap pond works great if built, used, and maintained correctly.


I never said it doesn't work, I said it's disgusting and a waste of time and effort, but obviously there are many who disagree.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby maladroit » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:15 pm

I think that if something is SO easy to use incorrectly that 90% of people don't do it right, then maybe it's still a flawed design. A design has to survive contact with its users.

The words "pool" or "pond" shouldn't even apply to this evaporation idea. Once there is enough water to be called a pool, it has failed. They should be called evaporation surfaces or something.

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melodiousdirge
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:20 pm

maladroit wrote:I think that if something is SO easy to use incorrectly that 90% of people don't do it right, then maybe it's still a flawed design.


Also if you size, build and use it correctly but then literally any blundering idiot can step in it, fall down, make a stinky mooping leaky mess... it could be a flawed design. Also if the wind blows, stinky mess. I mean to be fair there are hardly any blundering idiots or wind out there, but all the same.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby theCryptofishist » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:34 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:
maladroit wrote:I think that if something is SO easy to use incorrectly that 90% of people don't do it right, then maybe it's still a flawed design.


Also if you size, build and use it correctly but then literally any blundering idiot can step in it, fall down, make a stinky mooping leaky mess... it could be a flawed design. Also if the wind blows, stinky mess. I mean to be fair there are hardly any blundering idiots or wind out there, but all the same.

But there's gusty idiots and blundering wind.
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Canoe
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Canoe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:51 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:If you're going to go as far as adding bleach, there's a compelling argument to be made for filtering and sprinkling your grey water instead of using an evap pond.
It's highly unlikely that Dick can competently filter grey water to the point that sprinkling it on the playa is actually No-Trace.
Even though BRC is located on the least biologically significant part of the BRP, accumulate enough contaminants on the playa and the next thing is you've got a compelling reason to shut BM down.

Don't be a Dick; take your grey-water off the playa.
Or evap it and take the remainder off the playa.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:59 pm

Canoe wrote:It's highly unlikely that Dick can competently filter grey water to the point that sprinkling it on the playa is actually No-Trace.


Some real subjective handwaving we got here. According to BMORG's publication, cheese cloth and bleach are all you need to satisfy the blm, but I take your point. Even if you rule out dumping it on the playa, my vote would be to haul it out instead of building slippery biohazard pools all over the place, but at this point I'm just repeating myself.
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The CO
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby The CO » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:07 pm

maladroit wrote:I think that if something is SO easy to use incorrectly that 90% of people don't do it right, then maybe it's still a flawed design. A design has to survive contact with its users.

The words "pool" or "pond" shouldn't even apply to this evaporation idea. Once there is enough water to be called a pool, it has failed. They should be called evaporation surfaces or something.


Absolutely. The classic black pond is far from the most effective way to do things; but it's flaws lie in using it correctly; operator error has given them a bad rap. People seem to think it's a "set it and forget it" thing.

I can present a bunch different and better ways to evap greywater, but they all involve more tech and building skill than the old black pond.


This bad boy did 20-30 gallons a day last year. Low maint once it's set up, but building it requires more than some wood and visqueen.

Image
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Canoe
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby Canoe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:15 pm

The CO wrote:... This bad boy did 20-30 gallons a day last year. Low maint once it's set up, but building it requires more than some wood and visqueen.

NICE!

I've been working on a design to provide vertical hanging sheets (air to both sides), to maximize surface area and airflow, but still bugs to work out, and it's not playa tested. Your evap illustrates that I don't have to have the sheets wet from the very top...
I believe that the filter media used in the swamp-coolers or for watering mats would provide more water-to-air surface area, expecting the swamp-cooler filter to be the best balance between water surface area vs air flow, but yours looks like simple burlap? Probably the best bang-for-buck design I've ever seen.
Last edited by Canoe on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:19 pm

The CO wrote:
Image


That actually looks much better than many of the evapotrons I've seen around. It doesn't have a windmill or a fountain to make it look fancy, but it also looks like it wouldn't spray droplets everywhere. Still kind of a gross thing to have around camp but if you really need to dispose of that much grey, I can start to see the benefit.
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The CO
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby The CO » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:23 pm

Not gross at all. It literally sits 5-6 feet from our public bar space and provides a nice trickling water feature. Small amount of bleach each day keeps it smelling more like chlorine than anything else.

@canoe: yep, plain old burlap. Double layer to increase surface area.

Needs a pump, but you can get a 12v with 4+ feet of lift for cheap, or last year we used a small inverter and booster pack to power it during the day, generator at night.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:32 pm

The CO wrote:Not gross at all. It literally sits 5-6 feet from our public bar space and provides a nice trickling water feature.


I think we're back to subjective. Used bathwater, saliva and food washings are still pretty gross, even if it smells like fresh flowers. I sure wouldn't keep it next to my bar.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby The CO » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:36 pm

Yeah, that would be a problem if one is foolish enough not to filter the greywater before putting it in the system. I feel sorry for those folks.
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our fresh water?

Postby mooserider » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:41 pm

Is it a concern regarding bugs breeding in the freshwater supply (as opposed to grey/black water)? Considering the amount of fresh water my camp is hauling in to ensure we'll survive from early entry to exodus, I don't want critters climbing in the vents of my RV's freshwater tank (or any of our other water storage tanks) and making themselves at home. Do I need to add a bit of bleach when I'm filling the freshwater tanks?

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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our evap pool?

Postby stephen2u » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:09 am

For the bugs I bringing two Mosquito nettings for a queen size bed, a bunch of bags of sad to keep in place, deet's for the mosquitoes and I'm going to Home Depot for more bug stuff... And 2 bottles of vodka,one bottle of whisky, and xo cafe 37 % alcohol. That should take care of my bug problem.

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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our fresh water?

Postby melodiousdirge » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:34 am

mooserider wrote:Is it a concern regarding bugs breeding in the freshwater supply (as opposed to grey/black water)? Considering the amount of fresh water my camp is hauling in to ensure we'll survive from early entry to exodus, I don't want critters climbing in the vents of my RV's freshwater tank (or any of our other water storage tanks) and making themselves at home. Do I need to add a bit of bleach when I'm filling the freshwater tanks?


I'd be awfully surprised if your RV isn't set up to keep water breeders out of your fresh water tanks already. Isn't there a screen on your water tank vent?
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Re: How best to keep bugs from breeding in our fresh water?

Postby mooserider » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:47 am

melodiousdirge wrote:
mooserider wrote:Is it a concern regarding bugs breeding in the freshwater supply (as opposed to grey/black water)? Considering the amount of fresh water my camp is hauling in to ensure we'll survive from early entry to exodus, I don't want critters climbing in the vents of my RV's freshwater tank (or any of our other water storage tanks) and making themselves at home. Do I need to add a bit of bleach when I'm filling the freshwater tanks?


I'd be awfully surprised if your RV isn't set up to keep water breeders out of your fresh water tanks already. Isn't there a screen on your water tank vent?

Yes, but Canadian no-see-ums are small enough to fly through those holes. Not sure how big the smaller bugs of the playa plague are. And the vents on the portable water jugs aren't screened. They'll have to be kept closed when the jugs aren't actually being drained.


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