How much grey water to plan for?

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aireq
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How much grey water to plan for?

Post by aireq » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:05 am

The past couple Burns I've built a solar powered evapotron for our camp. This worked reasonably well, but would always end up at capacity at the end of the week due to too many people dumping cooler water in it. Plus even if it works well we still have a really gross fountain in the back of our camp.

So this year we are considering asking people to deal with their own grey water in their own grey water storage container.

Assuming no one tries to bring a shower or something like that, how much grey water can we estimate a person will generate per day on average? We're thinking of suggesting people to bring 5 gallon buckets with lids. Personally I could work with half that, but I figure it's good to be conservative.

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Jackass
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Jackass » Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:58 am

Even with a shower for two, I never ended up with more than a 5 gal. bucket of grey water. BTW, clean ice chest water can be broadcast over the road in front of your camp...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:35 am

This is the biggest no-brainer ever.
How much fresh water are they/you bringing? That’s how much grey water capacity to plan for.

And that’s a great plan, it’s what I’ve always done. Evap ponds, as you’ve found, are horrible.
There’s no reason you can’t have a shower, it all depends on how much water you bring.
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Luigi
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Luigi » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:01 pm

Evap ponds are gross!
I think you are on the right path - have every person be responsible for their grey water. Makes them think about it. Ask them how much water they are bringing in and plan to haul out about half.
I keep the cooler water clean and sprinkle it on the road with a garden can or use it in the figjam cooler. Have tried evap, filtering, and now we just put the bath water in a 5 gallon bucket, add a cap of clorox and haul it out. Last year for two of us we had less than a bucket.
"Water is the driving force of all nature. " Leonardo da Vinci

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some seeing eye
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by some seeing eye » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:12 pm

It entirely depends on the orientation and behavior of your campers.

I use .5 - .75 G per shower in a self-supplied solar shower. Kitchen water is another equation, especially with a three tub system under health regulation guidance. Washing/rinsing/sanitizing dishes needs water.

Orient campers to minimize waste water and structure a system to police the grey water.

Consider camp culture. Are they able to individually orient behavior to eco-good?

I would also suggest to measure grey water and provide daily feedback to the campers.

(I have been responsible for grey water plans for a large very tight knit 500+ village)
Last edited by some seeing eye on Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Captain Goddammit
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:13 pm

Only planning to haul out half has an obvious issue.
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Luigi
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Luigi » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:27 pm

You are right Cap'n. I forgot about the big camp mentality.
"Water is the driving force of all nature. " Leonardo da Vinci

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Papa Bear
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Papa Bear » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:38 pm

Captain Goddammit hit the nail on the head.

My one suggested addition? Don't supply fresh water either - for washing or drinking. Make people be responsible for bringing their own water as well as taking away their gray water. It's the simplest and most reliable way to make sure everyone is both aware of and careful about what they are using.

The tragedy of the commons is real, and I've seen it play out firsthand. I was once with a theme camp where everyone was responsible for bringing their own water, and nobody had a problem. The next year, the same camp tried going with a communal supply... and wound up making two unscheduled runs out to Gerlach to refill the big IBC containers that should easily have lasted the week.

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:26 am

It all boils down the the same basic issue: making it easy for people to fly or bus in without providing for themselves.
It isn’t supposed to be that kind of vacation. A lot of people won’t have the chance to do Burning Man if it isn’t made easy enough for them... those people that won’t make the effort shouldn’t do Burning Man.
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DoctorIknow
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:21 am

As the Capt. pointed out,,,,it's an easy concept to understand: bring containers full of water and then take home containers full of greywater.

Unfortunately, to get that concept into campers WAY OF APPROACHING BURNING MAN is hit and miss....mostly miss...

The mental awareness and actions needed to deal with your greywater starts when buying water for the trip to the playa. Once there, sting your empty one gallon clear plastic jugs on your car antenna, and fill them with greywater when you have it. A splash of bleach in the jug. Take them home and dump them in the toilet.

Any extra jugs when leaving, drive over them and they flatten pretty nicely.

Other containers are mentioned in this thread, but these three are the most common:

jugs for greywater.png
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BBadger
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by BBadger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:47 pm

Don't provide what you are not willing or able to pack out yourself, unless you've guaranteed that others will pick up that slack.

I hate it when people knife those 2-gallon containers. If you want to pour out more at a time just pull the spout off the end and it flows freely with a huge hole. It's also re-cappable. Knife the thing and now you have to position it on a flat surface so the hole doesn't leak.
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aireq
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by aireq » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:29 pm

Thanks for all the responses. I should clarify that we are only a 20-25 person camp that requires everyone to bring their own water.

The concept of using the same container you brought the water in with to bring the grey water out in only works with disposable containers. Like personally I use 20 liter military water Jerry cans. I'm not putting grey water on those. I'd like to convince people to use sturdy reusable container for fresh water if possible.

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BBadger
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by BBadger » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:04 pm

Well, then you'll need to bring additional grey water vessels, properly marked.

You could also bring a big barrel and try to get USS to pump it for a fee.
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Papa Bear
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Papa Bear » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:46 pm

Well, in that case, I'm a fan of the 5 gallon bucket. Easily obtained, easy to fill and empty, not too heavy to move around, and can be sealed up tight.

If the pressure fit/pry off lids annoy you, gamma lids aren't all that expensive an upgrade.

DoctorIknow
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:42 pm

Papa Bear wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:46 pm
.... gamma lids aren't all that expensive an upgrade.....
Wow....how did I now be aware of these gizmo's? (buy 6 to save $)
Thank you PapaB!

gamma lid for 5 gallon bucket.png
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Papa Bear
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by Papa Bear » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:48 pm

You're more than welcome! I asked myself the same question when I first discovered them - they've completely changed the way I think about and use those buckets.

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FlyingMonkey
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by FlyingMonkey » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:16 pm

You answered your own question in your OP. Just dump your grey water in everyone else's evap ponds.
KIDDING!

I recommend embracing the 4th & 8th principals.
- Don't provide water or an evap pond (they are gross and invite asshats who didn't have a grey water plan). Have everyone be a little radical & self reliant by packing in their own water & packing out a little less grey water. It's really hard to end up with more water than you bring in. It's really surprising how little water you need to take a shower with and it can be more fun if you get someone to spray you down with a garden sprayer (Hey! 2 more principals there. Immediacy & Communal Effort).

I always take 2 gallons per day & ALWAYS end up taking a lot of unused water home.
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Re: How much grey water to plan for?

Post by DoctorIknow » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:12 pm

FlyingMonkey wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:16 pm
"....evap pond (they are gross and invite asshats who didn't have a grey water plan...)
Evap ponds need security guards, even if the camp thinks they've "hidden" it.
One time, I'd been monitoring a 16x24' evap pond, brushing the slop around to have max sun.
Come Saturday, it was finally dry and I went to get others to roll up the putrid mess.
I got the crew, we went to the evap, and there was now about 5 gallons of the worst combo of piss and showerwater ever in there. Someone had been watching, as I was only gone 3 minutes.

From that point on, I built evap ponds on top of my van, and later on top of a U-haul.
Lifting grey-water up there is a pain (we had no pump) but the camp has total control over it, and no way did they ever become rancid as the worst of the grey-water (kitchen washing meat/egg pots/pans) never made it up there. It was almost all shower grey water.

Heres some photos of the van evap system:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/FTBnsefw6WLraxZW9

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