Birgin Camp 2014

[TT120]

Is it page two yet?

Can i start recommending which drugs and sex toys to pack?

You don't have to wait till page two Simon, that is always relevant information.

[Divreon]

I'm really coming to know and respect Simons trolling abilities.

Even a Virgin knows better than to discuss that sort of thing on public forums.

Also, not to micro mod, but wouldn't such discussions be against the rules of the eplaya?

[Ratty]

No. That's a legitimate question. You'll definitely need aspirin, Advil and allergy meds if warranted. For toys I always bring my teddy bear and dollie.

[FIGJAM]

Valley of the dolly?

[Divreon]

I should've known, it's not that Simon is a troll, it's that the entire community is...

Great... I've walked into a battle of wits unarmed... Yep, I'm the virgin here...

Keep up the good work folks....

[Savannah]

Is it page two yet?

Can i start recommending which drugs and sex toys to pack?

If you had done so in July, Simon, I wouldn't have ended up at the trash fence with a pint of inferior-quality ether and a dying Maytag washer. THANKS A LOT

[FossaFerox]

I should've known, it's not that Simon is a troll, it's that the entire community is...

Great... I've walked into a battle of wits unarmed... Yep, I'm the virgin here...

Keep up the good work folks....

Having been to one burn, it seems to me that the community here is quite adroit at making sure you know just enough to survive, maybe enough to survive comfortably if you do enough legwork, but not enough to ruin the discovery process for you.

There's something to be said for seeing your own plans come to fruition, for better or worse. The first time the 2,300 square foot structure I designed was assembled was on Playa, we didn't have time/space for a test build, and seeing it come together that first time, heart in my throat, was fucking magic. It wouldn't have been as cool if someone else had vetted my plans or if there'd been any one source to go to. All I got was "These are the types of things people tend to build. Wind blows. Here's a supplier I like."

[FIGJAM]

Don't you just love it when a guess comes together.

[Ratty]

(((Figjam)))

[BBadger]

So after reading how this thread has evolved, my question now is: if you wanted this whole "all newbie" experience, why are you even soliciting advice? Isn't the whole point of this "non-burner way" camp to show up with all these preconceived-but-uncorrupted notions about what you should bring and what will be a great idea, only to see lots of redundancy in what people brought (or did not bring), a lot of false starts, tons of bickering, too many cooks stirring the broth, and ultimately some struggle you can learn from and never repeat next time? Hell, now you're wrecking the... charm... of those first year trials and tribulations.

[Divreon]

I have ton's of my own dumb ideas to try. Things that may or may not work, and some fall backs if they don't.

The idea is to have new people, who will try new things, banding together in case anything goes terribly wrong, rather than being alone. In a group of newbies, things will probably go wrong enough on their own that tempting fate by being completely unprepared is suicidal.

The new burners will, just by the fact that they don't know completely what to expect, try things that people have and haven't tried before. Maybe they won't learn about something being a bad idea and will manage to pull it off, and maybe they'll hear what failed as an idea, and try to fix the problem. Maybe they'll try something completely new and original, and maybe they'll reinvent the wheel. When things go wrong, maybe a passerby will help out, or maybe the group of virgins will come up with a fix that's unique to them, maybe they'll fail, and maybe they'll come up with the way that an experienced burner has done it in the past.

Once I'm sure I have the basics needed for survival covered, then I get to go crazy with ideas, seeing what I can do, and creating ways to get it done. From now until December I'm in practical mode and from January on I can focus on creating something that's completely me.

One thing I've constantly heard is that no one can explain burning man, so no matter how much I read, no matter how many videos I watch, no matter how many questions I ask, there will be things I don't understand, things I don't even know to ask the answers to. These are the points where virgins will sink or swim. That's what I want to see.

[Roberto Dobbisano]

the schwartz is strong in this one.

[FossaFerox]

One thing I've constantly heard is that no one can explain burning man, so no matter how much I read, no matter how many videos I watch, no matter how many questions I ask, there will be things I don't understand, things I don't even know to ask the answers to. These are the points where virgins will sink or swim. That's what I want to see.

That's because everybody's burn is different. The bottom line is you need to make sure that you're prepared enough to survive without endangering yourselves or those around you (please anchor anything you build DAMN WELL. Overkill is barely enough if a bad windstorm hits) and without burdening your neighbors (If you don't bring enough water, or your food goes bad because you didn't realize how fast dry ice sublimates, your neighbors will probably not let you die, but they'll probably be pretty sore about having to take care of a group of sparkle ponies). Once those basics are covered, then it's all about discovery.

[Divreon]

Already working on figuring out tents/stakes and practicing knots.

[BBadger]

Well my thoughts were more philosophical: if you're trying to have this "Montessori school"-type of personal exploration without all the "taint" of "vets", why are you soliciting our advice on the best way to do things, looking at videos, reading up on how other burners do things, etc.? It's kind of like having a kid be super hell-bent on moving out and being independent, and yet keeps coming back to mooch dinners and "borrow" pots and pans.

You're also being just as "indoctrinated" into the "burning man" way of doing things through such media and advice as having someone in your camp showing you how they do it. In fact, I'm actually more horrified that you're looking at videos and being tainted by the potential sights and sounds that you won't experience anew, than by whatever you may lose by joining a camp. Then again, that media doesn't capture much.

Quite frankly, you'll probably have the same good experience with your newbie-camp as some other camp. I would just dispose of the whole rebellion thing we saw in the earlier posts, and not assume that surrounding yourself with other newbies will make the experience better, even if it may be unique -- unique like every other experience.

[trilobyte]

Bbadger raises a really good point. If your goal is to really push the radical self reliance button and do the all-newbie, only-newbie thing, then you may already be caving on the concept by soliciting suggestions and advice. You should be doing your own reading and research and making your own decisions, like radically self reliant people.

Once that domino falls (which it has), you're already turning to experienced burners for help and guidance. The more pictures and videos that you watch of other people (presumably outside your camp's ranks, since you're going all first-timers), the more it spoils the notion that you're somehow being any more self reliant than the first-timer who camped with a group of long-time veterans.

Camp with whomever you like, and with whatever campmate selection criteria that makes you and your campmates happy. You'll probably survive, and you'll hopefully have an amazing time. And it will be a completely unique experience. Just like everybody else.

[Simon of the Playa]

i suggest you not listen to our suggestions.

[Ratty]

How can I delete a thread from my, "View your posts". Honestly. It's me, not you. I yearn for the days when all that popped up was my costume threads. Oh well. You can never go back.

[Divreon]

From my original post:

Obviously most first timers learn a lot from the e-playa even before they arrive, and that will temper some of the inexperience, but at the same time, there's no limit to the types of things that new burners can contribute, that burners in general can attempt, and a camp that is pure untested possibility could be the best and/or worst of what burning man has to offer.

[CleCub]

I have only been an eplaya member for a few days but already I have heard all kinds of suggestions, comments and criticism. They all boil down to BM being what you make of it. I have also thought experiencing it for the first time with other virgins would be awesome if only to see how everyone reacts.

I saw in another post that you were going to 2014 from Buffalo. I might be interested in sharing resources/ride/whatever as I live in Cleveland. If you get a group together coming through my area, let me know. So far, I'm going alone as all my friends are lame or have family stuff, so I might need a copilot or have room for people or gear depending which vehicle I drive. I'll keep checking back here also.

Good luck! Hope to see you there.

[FossaFerox]

One tip, if any of you guys are driving and picking people up along the way, negotiate gear storage space in the vehicle well before you leave. I'm talking specific dimensions. The last thing you want when you're packing up a vehicle are surprises once it's too late for some people in the caravan to make changes to what they're bringing.

[Savannah]

Yep. One person can easily fill a 5-person sedan with their own gear. You generally need more space than that for 2+ people, unless a third party is bringing a big chunk of the stuff (for example, the shade and water).

[BBadger]

One does not simply drive a 5-person sedan with 2+ people and all their supplies into BRC...

[Savannah]

One does not simply drive a 5-person sedan with 2+ people and all their supplies into BRC...

HAHAHA!

Even funnier because I have done it . . . and it sucked!

[BBadger]

Our first year we brought a rental mini-van with water, food, tents bikes, and stuff for 3+ people. The water barrel itself occupied a whole "seat" in the back. Of course that was with no shade or any other amenities, so yeah... THAT SUCKED. I can't imagine what it'd be like in a sedan; they're cramped enough without any supplies.

We overcompensated (or perfectly compensated I should say) the following year with a full-cab Ford F150 and a whole trailer to haul in stuff.

[Ratty]

I used to bring a ride-share in my van. It was perfect. We split the van down the middle. Now that he is married and hasn't come for 2 years, I fill the van to the brim with just my stuff.

[Divreon]

I'm working on my license, it's been 12 years since I was able to drive, I should probably get on that...

I'm looking into buying a metal box trailer, they seem cheap enough and I have 3-4 times a year when it'd be useful not counting BM. Just need to keep hornets and bees out when in the off months. If I get a trailer and my license, the options for BM open up exponentially.

[theCryptofishist]

I have only been an eplaya member for a few days but already I have heard all kinds of suggestions, comments and criticism. They all boil down to BM being what you make of it. I have also thought experiencing it for the first time with other virgins would be awesome if only to see how everyone reacts.

I saw in another post that you were going to 2014 from Buffalo. I might be interested in sharing resources/ride/whatever as I live in Cleveland. If you get a group together coming through my area, let me know. So far, I'm going alone as all my friends are lame or have family stuff, so I might need a copilot or have room for people or gear depending which vehicle I drive. I'll keep checking back here also.

Good luck! Hope to see you there.

Damn, if only Emergency Polka Camp were real--two potential recruits!

we still have patches. I think all unreal camps should have patches.

[Savannah]

I have only been an eplaya member for a few days but already I have heard all kinds of suggestions, comments and criticism. They all boil down to BM being what you make of it. I have also thought experiencing it for the first time with other virgins would be awesome if only to see how everyone reacts.

I saw in another post that you were going to 2014 from Buffalo. I might be interested in sharing resources/ride/whatever as I live in Cleveland. If you get a group together coming through my area, let me know. So far, I'm going alone as all my friends are lame or have family stuff, so I might need a copilot or have room for people or gear depending which vehicle I drive. I'll keep checking back here also.

Good luck! Hope to see you there.

Damn, if only Emergency Polka Camp were real--two potential recruits!

we still have patches. I think all unreal camps should have patches.

I LIKE that idea! One would have to sort one's swag within a few weeks of returning from the desert, before the real and the unreal started blurring together . . .

Lord knows I've thought up at least half a dozen camps I never intended to do, but thought were hilarious.

I should try to figure out what those were.

[theCryptofishist]

I LIKE that idea! One would have to sort one's swag within a few weeks of returning from the desert, before the real and the unreal started blurring together . . .

By that measure, I'd have to sort my schwag before I got it; real and unreal just don't stay separate long for me.