Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matures

Whether you're a registered theme camp or not this is the place to discuss and share camp plans, find a camp to join, or recruit new campmates.
User avatar
Dr. Pyro
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 8:11 am
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro
Location: Meadow Vista, CA
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Dr. Pyro » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:35 am

And that is precisely why BDC&WB doesn't have a communal kitchen, though we have a few communal meals in a share arrangement.

User avatar
lucky420
Posts: 8711
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:47 am
Burning Since: 2021
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by lucky420 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:42 am

Noooooooooooo to the communal kitchen! I'm really glad that we don't have one at DWD although tink brings enough to feed an army...

I was with another camp in 2011 and we had a communal kitchen. I had a brought a brand new coleman camp stove to share. No biggie, until whoever slopped their sloppy shit all over the side of it and didn't clean it up and let the sloppy slop get cooked onto the stove. That pissed me off but I kept quiet about it, no use looking like a crazy fuck over sloppy slop. but I still thought it was really fucking rude that whoever did it, didnt wipe it up. fuckhead

I love my DWD campmates
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16893
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by trilobyte » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:49 pm

@FF - sounds like your situation would get sticky if/when your camp ever split. I'd imagine that aside from you (designer/builder) and the guy storing it in the off-season (storage costs would be expensive, plus he's in possession of it), any individual or individuals choosing to leave your camp would just be leaving that behind unless you guys make some other arrangements.

Why would someone buy camp infrastructure (dome, EMT structure, etc)? Perhaps because they want to organize and provide for a camp. My girlfriend and I own somewhere in the neighborhood of 3500-4000 square feet of shade for our camp's infrastructure, for our group of friends. We don't do the hippie commune democracy thing though, our camp is more of a benevolent dictatorship. I'm the founder/owner/leader, and am responsible for the camp. The bulk of the decisions and direction come from my girlfriend and I, and we discuss things with other core members to get their input and feedback where it's needed. I designed and built all the structures, cut all the poles, etc, and we store them throughout the year. The bulk of the cost came out of our pocket, and the rest came from dues. For our camp, dues do not represent an ownership stake in the camp's infrastructure - they're to help offset the expense of that trip (if you broke down the dues that our campmates pay, the bulk of it goes to cover things like truck rental and fuel). Some campmates bring along their own pieces of infrastructure to the event, but then they take that back home with them and are responsible for cleaning/storing, etc. It's worked for us since 2007

@tamarakay - we actually do a communal kitchen (though don't do a communal meal plan or water and whatnot). We've got campmates who come from all over the world, and it can be a hardship for some of them to have a decent kitchen. So we hook up the basics. Everyone has a day where they're responsible to either keep on ppl or do the cleanup themselves, and for our little group it's worked out. It divides the load so no one person has to get on ppl's cases all week, and we do a pretty decent job of cleaning up after ourselves (thank goodness).

@Bbadger - well said with regards to kitchen as microcosm. As we've grown we've found that clearly defined plans, along with posted signs and reminders and a roster of people taking turns in the hot seat. They don't have to clean up after everybody, they just need to make sure that it gets done. Sometimes that means just cleaning it, other times going after who left something, or other times asking others in camp to give them a hand with something. We're not that big of a group, and it's worked out really well for us.

@AntiM - we evolved away from the single kitchen bitch model. Not because it didn't work, but because the people who were in that role were starting to feel stressed out. They felt badly about what felt to them like constant nagging, and then they were pissed when things fell to them. So now we have a rotating cast.

@Lucky420 - I don't blame you for being upset. Sure, stuff that goes to the playa is going to get beat up and worn and used, but cooked-on slop goes past normal use and into slob territory.

User avatar
FossaFerox
Posts: 784
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:43 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Vinyl Bunker
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by FossaFerox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:57 pm

Damn, you guys are making me appreciate my camp more and more. We had zero issues with the kitchen. We had about 2x the fuel we needed and I never saw a dirty dish sit in the sink, table, or living space for more than an hour. As for ownership, what you're saying makes a lot of sense for stuff like carports that have an easy and obvious use throughout the year. Less so for giant shade (Domes, etc) though I can appreciate now the simplicity of one person owning it and it going with them as needed.

For us, no one person had the disposable income to comfortably purchase that much shade. Plus it was only a fraction of the dues we were already collecting to rent the truck, pay for gas, buy water, etc all of which were handled as communal expenses. As for the shade, to handle any potential messiness we have an agreement where the communal gear stays with the largest segment of returning burners from our camp. So if 3-6 people break off, the remaining 7-10 keep the gear. If 7 break off, the stuff is theirs. If the guy storing it can't do so anymore we find a solution as a group. Anyone tries to break the agreement and claim it if things get really ugly? Well, I do still have the original receipts since it all went on my card, though I can't imagine it ever coming to that...
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

LowePro
Posts: 652
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by LowePro » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:42 pm

We had a similar experience, a loose group of 15 in 2012, and doubling in 2013, and still have a fantastic time but with more issues to deal with.

I still have many questions about how we'll proceed, so thanks for this thread, but my suggestion would be to have small teams for different camp resources, such as a Water Group, Trash Group, Electricity Group, Kitchen Group. Each group of 3 or 4 people are the Experts in their particular area and help others stay inline. Any everyone has to sign up to be on at least 1 team. We had a ton of pre-meetings, but onplaya, people still forgot to turn off the battery or overfilled the graywater because they didn't know what to do, and didn't know who to ask.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by BBadger » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:57 pm

FossaFerox wrote:Damn, you guys are making me appreciate my camp more and more. We had zero issues with the kitchen. We had about 2x the fuel we needed and I never saw a dirty dish sit in the sink, table, or living space for more than an hour. As for ownership, what you're saying makes a lot of sense for stuff like carports that have an easy and obvious use throughout the year. Less so for giant shade (Domes, etc) though I can appreciate now the simplicity of one person owning it and it going with them as needed.
Well, it's not too bad when you've got a close group of friends to camp with. It's like the sub-group I'm with in my camp. While we're attached to a larger camp in terms of the meals, events, and overall helping out, we provide for our own stuff and don't have any issues. It also depends on the personalities of people and how well you know them. Perhaps you have no camp issues simply because the friends you've come to know are compatible and have the same values. Bring in some friends-of-friends and you have an added level of problems with incompatibilities and lack of attachment to the welfare of everyone involved.

Strong attachment is why the "oligarchy" model is popular: the core group is usually familiar with each other and can direct the camp without too much conflicting input. Having a monopoly on the camp infrastructure also helps ensure that "power" is tied to that oligarchy and that the camp runs smoothly under their guidance. It may seem weird to think about camps in Burning Man as this kind of balance of power, but it still has the same dynamics that all human societies do.

Perhaps see how your camp and views change if you bring in more people into your camp. Or don't. It sounds like you've got a nice thing going. Quality over quantity.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
FossaFerox
Posts: 784
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:43 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Vinyl Bunker
Location: Los Angeles, California

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by FossaFerox » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:40 pm

Of the 13 in my camp this year, 3 of them I met three times before the burn (intro meeting and build days), 1 I met once before the burn (intro meeting), and 2 I met for the first time in Reno the night before entry. Not exactly old friends, but definitely good people.

We're going to be bigger this year, we're losing ~3 people, but gaining 5-7 at a minimum. We'll see how it goes. Maybe my views will be radically different after next year's burn...
ygmir wrote:Everyone loves you there, and no one cares a shit about you..........all at once. and vice versa.

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Posts: 9340
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Eric » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:10 am

I've been with the same camp since '03. Some years we've been fantastic, two years I ended the week wanting to beat one (or more) people to death and bury them in the playa - and it takes a ton of active work on someones part to get me to loose my temper. The last 3-4 we've been running really near perfect, and our camp is made up of people who work together part-time (at a club) in "real life", so we have a good hang on who everyone is. When the inevitable mid-week melt-downs happen, we all know how to deal with them. It's pretty sweet.

If you're camped with a good group of people, sometimes you just have to recognize the camp has an off year. If "off" becomes normal, it's time to move on.
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Regarding Scammers & Scalpers
Please read above link for all official information.

Eric ShutterSlut
Ass't Editor, BRC Weekly

User avatar
GreyCoyote
Posts: 2138
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by GreyCoyote » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:25 pm

Expanding and adding to what Eric said, sometimes you need to realize there may not be a good reason to grow. Aside from that in-built human compulsion to get bigger/higher/faster, ask yourself "why?" Maybe if you have a good group, close it off if that feels like the right choice. No harm sharing a camp with the same bunch year after year if you are all a good fit for each other.

I personally would rather camp with a dozen solid and reliable friends than an small army of egos and asshats any day. And if someone tells you you are "doin it wrong", make a mental note and put them on the "never allow" list.

A small, low-drama camp can be a wonderful thing. :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

User avatar
Savannah
Moderator
Posts: 12576
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:33 pm
Burning Since: 2018

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Savannah » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:49 pm

"Why?" is a fantastic question.
*** 2018 Survival Guide ***

"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger

"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle

User avatar
tamarakay
Posts: 3115
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:27 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: Dye with Dignity
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by tamarakay » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:30 pm

I do try and welcome a newbie or two each year. Don't get me wrong, I love my camp mates, but I think the excitement a newbie brings keeps it fresher for us. I know my limits though, so I don't really want to grow much larger.
When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit


http://www.dyewithdignity.com

User avatar
GreyCoyote
Posts: 2138
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:38 am

Virgins are always fun to watch and we like to include a pair if possible. Those big ooglie-eyes the first night are worth the price of admission. And hopefully they "get it" when the week is over. If not, its not like they didnt have lots of exposure to the necessary elements.

Sometimes too we vets learn a thing or two from them. We had a gal freshly back from Iraq who taught us old-timers a thing or two about taking effective minimalist showers that was very handy. Note: it takes two. Hehehehe :mrgreen:
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6179
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Ratty » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:53 am

We had fun with our newbie neighbors too. Although it was hard convincing her to put the camera away.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

User avatar
Eric
Moderator
Posts: 9340
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:45 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: BRC Weekly
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Eric » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:51 pm

I love newbies in camp for what they do for me - help wipe off some of the jaded edge. Hopefully they have fun too, but that's secondary... :lol:
It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Regarding Scammers & Scalpers
Please read above link for all official information.

Eric ShutterSlut
Ass't Editor, BRC Weekly

User avatar
Aurelia
Posts: 2432
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: the Love Camp
Location: San Fracisco, Bay Area

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Aurelia » Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:26 pm

so many years with the same camp ..and one really difficult one ..that I tried to change camps
fortunately that did not happen and I learned AGAIN
each year is different and each of us strives to do our best

This was an exceptionally fine year

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by motskyroonmatick » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:45 pm

It seems to me that camps have more trouble when any (or increasing) money, chores, obligations and schedules are involved.

A clear camp purpose that states camp goals and expectations can go a long way to create managed expectations and for recruiting people who want to be in that camp environment.
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by BBadger » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:25 am

motskyroonmatick wrote:It seems to me that camps have more trouble when any (or increasing) money, chores, obligations and schedules are involved.
That shouldn't be a revelation. Camps are just a microcosm for society in general.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
MacGlenver
Posts: 872
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:11 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: I call this one 'Old Gregg'

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by MacGlenver » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:48 am

Dazoo -- this camp sounds suspiciously familiar ;)

Awesome advice, guys. Fishy's advice of avoiding secrecy is probably best of all, since the people in your camp ARE your friends (or good friends of good friends), and you don't want to unnecessarily piss them off.

It's nice to hear that everyone's experience aligns so well with ours. We've got some serious thinking to do :)
"just two indecisive cowboys, trying to play a word game." - piehole
"Just apply intelligence and discretion and you should be able to get away with just about anything." - Ugly Dougly

User avatar
Simon of the Playa
Posts: 19041
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:25 pm
Burning Since: 1996
Camp Name: La Guilde des Hashischins
Location: Rochester, Nevada.

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:34 pm

matching t-shirts.



nothings spells cohesion like matching t-shirts.
Frida Be You & Me

User avatar
H.G.Crosby
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm
Location: Boston, New York, Paris, Tangiers

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by H.G.Crosby » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:36 pm

oh stfu.

you still wear yours with pride.
Once I noticed I was on fire, I decided to relax and enjoy the fall™

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by BBadger » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:50 pm

I dunno, that might cause more drama.

Image
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40313
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:03 pm

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
pinemom
Posts: 8279
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:36 am
Location: Booby Bar 2007-2011
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by pinemom » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:29 am

......and then you do do a bigger theme camp, for 5 yrs and spend as much of your earnings you can to still be able to feed yourself till taxes come in in the spring...and then you announce that the last yr will be the last.

But you will still be blamed and hated by some camper for stopping it.(even if given 2 yrs heads up for THEM to take it over) They will then blame you for joining another camp run by someone else. And all you wanted to do was do something different at Burningman...just wanted to do something different. But I cant make all the people happy all the time. I try not to take the personal attack (even the scary silence of it) personally, I look at what happened, I understand why the person was hurt. But it had nothing to do with me personally...I was just a easy target to be mad at I guess.

Theme camps are funny business.

I have NO REGRETS! NONE. All 5 yrs were magic.
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".

User avatar
Aurelia
Posts: 2432
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:34 pm
Burning Since: 1986
Camp Name: the Love Camp
Location: San Fracisco, Bay Area

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by Aurelia » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:58 pm

Although I was not in your camp; I certainly get what you are saying
And Oh how you do spin !

xoA.

CaffeineGirl
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:15 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: EspressoCamp/Black Rock Power Coop
Location: Pacific Northwet

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by CaffeineGirl » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:03 pm

It was magic, PineMom. And magic burns bright then is gone.

Happy Thanksgiving!

User avatar
theCryptofishist
Posts: 40313
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
Burning Since: 2017
Location: In Exile

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by theCryptofishist » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:04 pm

Piney--
Well, before I start, do you know that you can get Trilobyte to change your name for you? Just send him a pm and he'll do it.

It was never about the Booby Bar. I loved the Booby Bar and I was very happy there, and as I knew I didn't want the job of camp lead, and knew that I didn't have what it takes, I really never had any issues with your running it how you saw fit. Or your retiring when you wanted to. No, what really fucked up our friendship, and fucked up my friendships with a whole group of other people is that I arrived on playa in 2012 and found out that Apok had been expelled from the village. (Henceforth known as Potemkin.) Yeah, yeah, technically Apok wasn't "expelled" but the village was dismantled around it and set up elsewhere. I think of it as a nasty trick, although I'm certain other people saw it as clever.
No one told me. Not one single one of my "friends" saw fit to send me an email and tell me what was going on. When someone doesn't want me in their village, and doesn't tell me what's going on I conclude that I am not valued. And a month or so after the event, when I tried to express my dissatisfaction you took it as "drama". So, I'm not wanted in the village, and I'm not allowed thoughts and feelings and opinions about it? That's not friendship, that's mindfuck.
I've felt awful on and off all year. As I type I not only feel anger and sadness and loss and betrayal and abandonment, but my stomach is crying and my skin feels like it's deforming around me. I miss your friendship, I do. But you, and these other people who want to friend me on facebook or hug me in Ice Cubed, shrunk from doing the hard thing, contacting me and telling me what was up. Friendship consists of doing the hard things.

If you're willing to hear this from me, it seems to me, that if you find it pertinent to get on a message board and say you have no regrets, that maybe you need to sit down in a very safe space and do what you have to do to untangle your heart and find out what lessons you might have learned, and say goodbye to what you wanted and hello to what you have.
The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

User avatar
pinemom
Posts: 8279
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:36 am
Location: Booby Bar 2007-2011
Contact:

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by pinemom » Sat Nov 30, 2013 7:43 am

Fishy,

We had not even planned on camping with anyone 2011. At the last minute we camped with Raiders(literally 2 weeks prior to bm). And in 2011, it was only 3 of the 8, ORIGINAL Terminal camps that camped with another theme village entirely(BRFX). It wasnt Terminal city at all in 2011.
I was not in Charge. I did not follow thru the yrs planning what was or was not going on in Terminal city. I told you that very day you were angered with me that it was Drama, yes. I was only pointing out the elevation of said Rant.

Fishy the hardest part is that the drama was not about you, or encompassing you. Rather the lead person and yrs of Drama that was Apok. I know you love these people as well as I do. But loving someone doesnt mean you can change their behavior. Or apologize for their behavior or change the damage that one person had done. Nor does that mean that I could tell the remaining camp mayors what to do or not do. That is not a power I have or want. When I see drama I call it. Was I suppose to remain silent while being thrown into the same bucket with the people you felt were responsible. I didnt think so.

All these years have gone with the playa dust. The past. The future looks mighty dusty too my finned friend.
Names pinemom, but my friends call me "Piney".

User avatar
GreyCoyote
Posts: 2138
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:24 am
Burning Since: 2000

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by GreyCoyote » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:38 pm

Ok. AWKWARD!

So. This duck walks into a bar....
"To sum up my compassion level, I think we should feed the unwanted animals to the homeless. Or visa versa. Too much attention and money is spent on both."
(A Beautiful Mind)

User avatar
CapSmashy
Posts: 1917
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:29 pm
Burning Since: 2007
Camp Name: Terminal City://404 Village Not Found
Location: Awesome Camp 2.0

Re: Looking for experienced advice on how a theme camp matur

Post by CapSmashy » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:00 pm

Oh jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick...

Seriously? Are you STILL crying about this? At least have the common fucking decency to utilize honesty in your wailing and lamentations...
Playawaste Raiders cordially invites you to suck it.

Locked

Return to “2014 Theme Camps”