ePlaya

The new auto fee is a good idea in my opinion for limiting the number of vehicles entering the event. However where it fails is that it in a way provides incentives for RVs. An RV can carry 10 people (or more) and they only have to pay one fee (if 10 people are in RV that's $4 per person), but a car probably at most is going to have 4 people in it ($10/person).

I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

Oh yay. This argument again...

How many points?

theCryptofishist wrote:Oh yay. This argument again...

How many points?

Like I said, I think the fee itself is a good idea, I just wonder if they could have implemented it in a way that didn't create an incentive for RVs.

Not all people who bring RV's or trailers (in my case a 27' toy hauler) set their camp up in a way that is uninviting. Our camp, anchored by the trailer is decidedly open and inviting and we meet many new people by walkups alone. An RV is just one of many different piece's of equipment and tools used to get thru a week in Black rock and how it and the camp is configured is based entirely on the attitude of the participant.
And I've been to many camps without RV's who were not particularly welcoming in their layout or attitude.

I think the car fee is bad enough, lets not petition for anymore fees or restrictions.

1durphul wrote:The new auto fee is a good idea in my opinion for limiting the number of vehicles entering the event. However where it fails is that it in a way provides incentives for RVs. An RV can carry 10 people (or more) and they only have to pay one fee (if 10 people are in RV that's $4 per person), but a car probably at most is going to have 4 people in it ($10/person).

I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'm confused? (it doesn't take much)

You are all for limiting the number of vehicles on the road through the vehicle passes proposed this year but wish they charged more for RV's to because they keep more vehicles off the road?

I'm sorry, what was your point?

“walls of impenetrableness”? You bet, some camps like them specifically for this reason. Each camp has an area that they wish to keep private & large vehicles do this nicely. By your reasoning box trucks are probably the worst since they are so big & only carry 1-3 people. I don’t think I’m really going out on a limb when I say that 90% of all the really cool stuff on the Playa relies on large vehicles to get there.

My bus can easily carry 10 comfortably with all their gear & still have room for camp infrastructure. This year we plan to have my bus be an interactive part of the camp as an exterior wall guiding people to our activities. It's a great place to use as a shade structure base & since we painted it with chalkboard paint it is often used as a canvas for the many talented artists there. Last time it was even used as a bulletin board to help separated family members communicate & find each other.

I would much rather see my decorated bus than a bunch of default world daily drivers collecting dust.

We get it, you don't like RV's and think they're a blight on the city. Now, take a deep breath... and get over it.

You might want to also consider that the rental of, as well as the operation of an RV (fuel, maintenance, etc) comes at a very considerable cost. It's far greater than the $40 vehicle pass cost, and I should imagine far greater than the cost of all the vehicle passes that people riding to the event in an RV would total out to. Saying that the flat fee $40 vehicle pass incentivizes RV's is more than a bit of a stretch.

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

I think we've created the Burning Man equivalent of Godwin's Law...that any mention of Hitler ends the discussion/argument...in our case, it's Larry Harvey. Well spoken, Cap'n!

dragonpilot wrote:

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

I think we've created the Burning Man equivalent of Godwin's Law...that any mention of Hitler ends the discussion/argument...in our case, it's Larry Harvey. Well spoken, Cap'n!

Actually, I think it's any mention of rvs that does it.

theCryptofishist wrote:

dragonpilot wrote:

Captain Goddammit wrote:
I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

I think we've created the Burning Man equivalent of Godwin's Law...that any mention of Hitler ends the discussion/argument...in our case, it's Larry Harvey. Well spoken, Cap'n!

Actually, I think it's any mention of rvs that does it.

You guys are in the minority on this one. I've met very few people who are happy with the presence of RV walls on their block. While my evidence is nothing more than anecdotal, it seems to be nearly a consensus for attendees who have given the subject any thought.

First Camp are among the worst offenders when it comes to secluding themselves from the rest of the festival. Using any of them as an argument hold no sway for me.

Walls shaped by RV form a caravansary.. Isn't that the theme this year??

I could give a rats ass how some one else camps..

Hope if RV are along side of me they will be on the sun side..
I can always do with more shade..

unjonharley wrote:Walls shaped by RV form a caravansary.. Isn't that the theme this year??

I could give a rats ass how some one else camps..

Hope if RV are along side of me they will be on the sun side..
I can always do with more shade..

+100

Popping in to say that, whatever your opinions on RVs are, the new vehicle fee WILL encourage them. I'm looking at traveling with a group of seven, and we had just about decided against an RV, as most of us have trucks we can attach campers to. While I haven't talked to them since the ticket info came out, I think the vehicle fee might tip the scales towards RV.

True, some people are penny wise and pound foolish, and wouldn't think anything of spending $20 to save a nickel.

1durphul wrote: You guys are in the minority on this one. I've met very few people who are happy with the presence of RV walls on their block. While my evidence is nothing more than anecdotal, it seems to be nearly a consensus for attendees who have given the subject any thought.

First Camp are among the worst offenders when it comes to secluding themselves from the rest of the festival. Using any of them as an argument hold no sway for me.

Minority? Then why are there so many RVs?!
Seein' as how it's Mr. Harvey's event, it's pretty hard to say his way of attending has no merit!

I think the only way to settle this is for Borg to establish a standardized tenting edict: In the spirit of getting everyone back into the TRUE spirit of Burning Man, no RVs, no campers, no buses, no box trucks unless said truck is for hauling theme camp gear. The ONLY permissible sleeping shelter allowed is a lean-to. The only clothing, a loin cloth. Only bottled water and Whole Foods granola bars allowed....but we'll keep the Center Camp Café going for you caffeine-heads.

RV walls along the roads suck, but who cares if people camp in 'em? We put our trailers & bus & my van along the borders of the camps next to us, not on the street. But then again, my camp rocks

1durphul wrote:You guys are in the minority on this one. I've met very few people who are happy with the presence of RV walls on their block. While my evidence is nothing more than anecdotal, it seems to be nearly a consensus for attendees who have given the subject any thought.

Really now? The "consensus" I encountered was that there are too many rubes worrying about how other people burn, rather than concentrating on their own burns. My personal opinion is that I would rather have a city full of RVs and turnkey camps, doing their own thing, than a city full of burner busy-bodies and puritans. The latter are an insufferable blight on event.

Can you please tell me what your camp is? I'm sure it's full of like-minded individuals forming consensuses amongst themselves about the way other people should burn. I'd like to avoid that area.

Anyway, if ten (10) people want to pony up big bucks to cram into a single RV, by all means let them. Instead of 5 separate cars getting checked by the gate (assuming each car has two people) with bike racks that have to be pulled off the trunk, they just check one big RV. Then that RV drives off to some camp-that-I'll-never-visit and I get to drive to my camp with less wait. Wow, my burn experience is already improved by concentrating on what really matters! If only more people crammed into RVs.

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: You guys are in the minority on this one. I've met very few people who are happy with the presence of RV walls on their block. While my evidence is nothing more than anecdotal, it seems to be nearly a consensus for attendees who have given the subject any thought.

First Camp are among the worst offenders when it comes to secluding themselves from the rest of the festival. Using any of them as an argument hold no sway for me.

Minority? Then why are there so many RVs?!
Seein' as how it's Mr. Harvey's event, it's pretty hard to say his way of attending has no merit!

Beat me to it. I'd like to see how you came up with this hypothesis that RV users are the minority.

RV vs. tent... a never-ending eplaya debate. But just for fun ...
An RV can be a huge bus or a tiny trailer.
I've gotta drive a one-ton pickup anyway, to tow the mutant vehicle, so why not put the camper on?
That's my "excuse" but the truth is I never have and never will go without one.
RVs exist to provide shelter and life support where there isn't any - that fits the bill perfectly for BRC!
Who in their right mind would go to a week-long event in the middle of the desert without one?
Cost isn't a factor. It seems that most people hear "RV" and all they can think of is renting one from El Monte for $4000 every year.
I paid $1500 for my camper, same as I paid for the last one that I had for ten years.
I sleep off the hot middays with the A/C on. I have a hot shower whenever I want.
I have lunch looking out the window at that horrible dust storm.
Remind me, why would you want a tent?

RVs are like bricks - you don't have to make a wall with them.

You can do all kinds of cool things with bricks. You can make pizza ovens, platforms to put ladders on, or play dodge-brick. The possibilities are endless!

Same goes for RVs.

Captain Goddammit wrote: Remind me, why would you want a tent?

I'm cheap.

I'm putting cabinets, air cooler, bed and sitting area in the van.. So I have more plug and play...

'New for 2014, in order to reduce traffic loads into the event BMORG has announced a new RV-by-Train service from Reno, NV to the playa. The Vehicle Pass plus a small additional fee gets you a spot on the ultimate caravan to Burning Man.'


p.s.
I like this part

dragonpilot wrote: The only clothing, a loin cloth.

Tiahaar you're one of those road damaging heathens who rolls into BRC at well over 26000 pounds! The Palomino Starship is evil!!
You should pay!!! It's all your fault!!!

LOL! Actually I was thinking of bringing the Starship Palomino AND the Silver Gryphon...you know, to spread the weight of 4 people out a bit on those delicate roads...hey and if the Gryphon tows the Palomino towing your camper truck towing the boat trailer we can all get in using just one pass huh!


I plead guilty!

Captain Goddammit wrote:Tiahaar you're one of those ... heathens

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

OK RV's are OK for senior citizens and the disabled.

Oh em gee. More of "you're burning wrong!"

I am planning on taking my cargo van (which seats two), just like I have for every burn I've been to. Yes, the extra vehicle fee seems a bit silly, but the org could have raised the ticket prices and charged a vehicle fee. So I will just suck up the extra $20 each and go have a great burn.

Camp in an RV, tent, bus, hexayurt, cabin, van, trailer, lean-to, on a tarp, whatever, just go have a good burn and stop worrying about what the fuck everyone else is doing. Jeezus.

cloverstreet wrote:

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

OK RV's are OK for senior citizens and the disabled.

"Most Idiotic First Post"

cloverstreet wrote:

Captain Goddammit wrote:

1durphul wrote: I really wish the org had charged more for RVs, they actively hurt the event by creating walls of impenetrableness inside the city.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that Larry Harvey stays in an RV.
Case closed.

OK RV's are OK for senior citizens and the disabled.

Ahem!