Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

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BrotherNomad
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Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by BrotherNomad » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:35 pm

BMorg is falling for the Global Warming Agenda by Gov? Less member automobiles coming to the playa while busses and semi-truck services transporting shipping containers to the playa? $40 "Vehical Pass" with $7 "Service Fee"?
Many things even I can change to make something like this work:
-If you BMorg must do this moving forward, make every auto/RV/truck etc. pay during ingress, and cut this non-gov required fee in half from $40 to $20.
-Now that we pay this extra charge, we should and will expect vast improvement in ingress, exodus and traffic efficiency. This is coming from a electronic musician, not a traffic engineer.
-This vehicle pass thing is NOT how to incentivize carpooling/ridesharing/public transit. I am sure the Black Rock City express busses do not let passengers carry extra cargo. People forced to travel ultra-light who don't like it or have no experience will not enjoy the event and depending on individual circumstances could be life-threatening.

That being said. I don't like to focus and complain only on the problem, so I offer a few possible creative & awesome solutions for Burning Man 2015.

People are writing Burning Man 2015 be the Year Of The Train, I write for that too. How it could work is to arrange with Union Pacific RailRoad Corporation to rent a few miles of intermodal flatcars (for truck trailers) along with needed freight locomotive power. People can drive any vehicle onto a flatcar upto 45 feet in length, 8 feet wide, and 13 feet 6 inches high. People than board passenger cars rented from Amtrak. Creative Touches can even be made in temporary form to the Union Pacific Engines with UPRR permission. BMorg buys or has fabricated temporary drive-off platforms near Black Rock City where the UP rail line is nearest. Drive-off platforms can accommodate 40 flatcars meaning 40 people can drive-off at once. This makes entire train drive-on and drive-off times faster than one at a time. People are instructed to make a hard forward turn onto or off the flatcars with a forklift and tow-truck on hand to help any mishaps. Vehicles drive-off without touching any paved roads leading to the event like they do now. Initially to keep individual costs and cost-of-implementation down the train trip only make trips between Reno & Black Rock City. Carson City or another town with an interstate (This whole vehicle pass is about wear and tear on roads right?) could also be the origination point to reduce costs and ease implementation.

If the costs of implementing a vehicle train shuttle are too high when calculated for individual burner costs, a dirt road parelling Nevada Highway 447 needs to be built all the way to Gate Road. Vehicle Passes were implemented to reduce vehicles causing wear and tear on the roads if I am correct? From I-80 to BRC vehicles destined for the Burning Man Playa do not touch pavement on their own parrellel dirt road! The dirt road could even supplement the paved road with the dirt road contra-flowed for ingress/egress. Contra-flowing means a two-lane road is made so both lanes go one direction for situations like evacuation, events etc.

This is if BMorg will not revert this eco-slave thinking next year, because the vehicle passes were a clusterf*ck. Vehicle passes create FUD for first-time burners like me. The vehicle pass as it is now is like acquiring a ticket, consuming more time and energy for the burner in addition to other preperation for the burn.

Vehicle Passes go against three ethos of Burning Man. Radical self expression is reduced in a bus. Most importantly, Radical Self-reliance. Vehicle Passes also create FUD, especially for First-timer burners like myself.

If Burner Express is what I am imagining, an express bus ticket includes two suitcase bags (the max-size airline checked-bag or GREYHOUND size limit), an in-the-bus bag and yourself. Just basic food/supplies would take up one bag, not including water. Bare survival for water is One gallon per-person per day. And yes, I know camp artica sells frozen water. everything else (playaware, clothes, gifts, art, camping gear, equipment, etc.) would have to be crammed into the other bag without an inch to breathe. This is just the basics, this doesn't include luxuries like a playabike, sleeping bag, shade structure, pillows, and things to thrive.

So unless a Burner Express rider has friends/connections able to bring in extra stuff to BRC, that Burner Express rider will be under-equipped and ill-prepared for a week on the inhospitable playa. This lends to a less than satisfactory experience, injury, dehydration and/or dependence on other burners for whatever.

Vehicle passes create FUD. Along with a ticket, a burner with a vehicle also needs to secure a pass in-advance. This effectively doubles the effort for travel-by-car burners. If this Vehicle Pass has to stay, slash the price in half to $20 and sell the passes at the gate. Selling passes only at the gate during ingress is simpler for BMorg to work and eliminates shipping, scalpers, fullfillment, and most importantly FUD.

A word about Gate Road leading into Black Rock City. Why does it take hours to go twelve miles, besides the sheer volume of vehicles? Why can't vehicles occupy more than four lanes for Gate Road? Here is an idea for 2015, vehicles are queued just outside Gate Road in a parking-lot type area then signalled to proceed one by one to BRC entrance. This is like pulsing except vehicles pulse the 12 miles from Gate Road entrance to BRC at once, making ingress/egress easier, less stressful & simpler for all.

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theCryptofishist
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:35 pm

tl;dr
Hope the op feels better for having expressed himself.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by trilobyte » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:18 pm

You're welcome to spend some time reading the boards and learn answers and responses to many of the poorly thought out points you raised that had been brought up countless times in the past. Additionally, you're welcome to consider volunteering with Gate for next year (to help be part of the solution, as it were).

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Fidget
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Fidget » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:35 pm

Also, as a first time burner you are woefully ill-experienced to offer this sort of feedback. Once you've seen all of this first hand you may realize that a lot of your points are way off base.

But as Trilo mentioned, spend a couple hours here searching for threads on the topics you raise to see that a lot of it has been thought out and discussed (at length) many times before.

And lastly, I'm sure gate services and the BMORG would love to hear your feedback, you should endeavor to get involved with them and be the change you so desperately want. Posting on forums that have no affiliation with the BMORG isn't the way to go about it.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:07 pm

"Burning Since 2014"... well, let me fill you in on something. The Gate Perimeter & Exodus people work their ass off, out in the hot sun, to get you in and out as efficiently as possible. Some of those people ARE traffic engineers. GP&E has a lot of experience trying different methods, studying patterns and results, and squeezing as much efficiency out of the road they have as they can.
Your dirt road would be ridiculously costly and a nightmare. If you think traffic is slow on a smooth paved road, visualize a dusty rutted dirt road!
A train?! Really? So now everyone has to chain their car down to a flatbed rail car, then unchain it and unload off a ramp... then get in the same line they would have if they'd driven to the playa... because there will be no free-for-all vehicle stampede across the playa, everyone still has to go through the gate. What about the train saves time? Then there's cost... the railroads aren't interested in tiny side jobs like this, you know.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by thirt33n » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:18 pm

so many virgins have this delusional attitude that this event has been sorely missing their unique brilliance and out of the box thinking when they have no idea if they will be able to stand the playa dust shutting down their nasal passages and sinuses and driving them insane and forcing them to leave the playa on day 2.....it happens to hundreds every year.



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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by pink » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:56 pm

What the hell is FUD?
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Bless » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:07 pm

Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Bless » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:10 pm

Am I the only one who thought that OP's suggestion was way more complicated than the silly parking pass itself?

Talking about searching for a solution to a problem that does not exist...
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ACfromSAC
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by ACfromSAC » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:14 pm

Cliff's notes anyone? I stopped reading somewhere around the train part.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Ratty » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:36 pm

Wow AC from sac, I bow to you. I stopped reading long before that. TRAIN? REALLY?

It's happy hour and who has time for foolish shit from a 1 post. For God's sake. Do some reading first. I'm not gonna do it for you.

(Oops, Did I say that outloud?)
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:39 pm

pink wrote:What the hell is FUD?
I dunno, be we can always call the OP "Elmer".



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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by BrotherNomad » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:08 pm

Everybody is right. However I do not see any other reason for this vehicle pass thing other than another way for BMorg to make money. We ALL should and will expect the ingress and exodus for Burning Man 2014 to be MUCH, MUCH smooother since every car is paying $47 (vehicle pass + fees). 47 x 65,000 (the amount of Burners I guesstimate travel by car to/from BRC, because personal mobility = personal prosperity). Equals Three Million, Fifty-five thousand dollars. I am an electronic musician, not a traffic engineer and I see this vehicle pass thing as flawed.

America Drives, this continent is too big to be dependent on public transit, express busses and rideshares. The urbanization agenda revolves around packing people in dense cities without cars, and pricey shops within walking distance. Mobility over Accessibility, accessibility being what the pro-urbanites preach.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by lucky420 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:14 pm

BrotherNomad wrote:Everybody is right. However I do not see any other reason for this vehicle pass thing other than another way for BMorg to make money. We ALL should and will expect the ingress and exodus for Burning Man 2014 to be MUCH, MUCH smooother since every car is paying $47 (vehicle pass + fees). 47 x 65,000 (the amount of Burners I guesstimate travel by car to/from BRC, because personal mobility = personal prosperity). Equals Three Million, Fifty-five thousand dollars. I am an electronic musician, not a traffic engineer and I see this vehicle pass thing as flawed.

America Drives, this continent is too big to be dependent on public transit, express busses and rideshares. The urbanization agenda revolves around packing people in dense cities without cars, and pricey shops within walking distance. Mobility over Accessibility, accessibility being what the pro-urbanites preach.
Cut your figures in half. There are not 65,000 vehicles out there.
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Dr. Pyro » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:25 pm

I for one happen to like the train. Wouldn't take it to TTITD, but Reno? Out of Roseville? Sounds like a party!

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Eric » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:34 pm

BrotherNomad wrote:We ALL should and will expect the ingress and exodus for Burning Man 2014 to be MUCH, MUCH smooother since every car is paying $47 (vehicle pass + fees).
Smoother than what? You've never been, what are you comparing it to? All you have to go on are what other people have said, but for every person who's had a shitty entry or Exodus and wrote about it, there's one (or two, or three) who've had a fine one. It's like Yelp, you only hear the really positive & really negative reviews, the great mass of average reviews never get posted.

If you're this wound up about something that you've never experienced, you are setting yourself up for a Really Bad Burn, because the Burn is what you make it, and if you're expecting your entry to it to be awful you're just giving yourself a reason to start the week off on the wrong foot.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by BBadger » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:15 pm

Holy fucking shit, why didn't I think about renting a whole fucking freight train just to transport peoples' monkey huts and solar showers to the playa just to shave off a whole fucking $40 per car and kick that fucking parking-exodus-problem "can" down the road to parking lots across the west (fuck you Easterners) where everyone would need to park. ALL ABOARD AMERICA! Then we could hire guards so that people don't get their cars' tires slashed and shit stolen. Everyone could carry all their damn supplies on their backs and in wheelbarrows from that newly built train station we'd build by the fucking Frog Pond all the way to the playa. It's only like two (2!) fucking miles of walking and people have mutant vehicles and bikes and shit. No problem! Hell, those Jews were wandering out in the fucking Sinai for 40 fucking years because Moses fucked up, and people on Soviet and Japanese death marches have done it before in modern times! We can do it! Easy Peasy. Then after we've laughed off our labor of love we'll all overuse words like "ingress" INGRESS INGRESSSSS many, many times (as well as a lot of large text and italics) just to sound sophisticated.





Man, maybe this isn't such a great idea....



...shit.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by thirt33n » Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:19 pm

...and....curtain. the end
blow.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Fan C » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:02 pm

thirt33n wrote:...and....curtain. the end
lole.

IMO the vehicle pass exsists due to the BLM/state authorities limiting traffic flow on the hwy into the playa. That is all. All environmental hoo ha is just that.

There is plenty of room ON the playa, not so much getting there.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by tatonka » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:17 pm

[media]
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Meat Hunter » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Excuse the "brother"; he must have ask Alice and has been chasing rabbits......
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by BrotherNomad » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:09 pm

What bothers me about this vehicle pass thing is it supports the urbanization agenda. The urbanization agenda takes people out of cars and into tour busses costing as much as personally driving ones own car (sometimes!) without the freedom that comes with driving. Watch and see, as soon as public transit agencies see a doubling in ridership due to the governments anti-car (and anti-liberty, anti-free market, anti-human) push we will see the public transit fares double.

This is besides Burning Man though. I know a few people in my area attending BM 2014, however there "greeting contacts". If I was to go to BRC without my van (fitted out for full-time living, a micro-apartment) I would have to underpack and leave things at home that would better my first burn. I am going to take my van into BRC even with this vehicle pass requirement because having the van is TWENTY TIMES better than being dependent on the Burner Express bus and underpacking to say the least about it.

Another possible (and more feasable, compared to vehicle freight trains & parrellel dirt road construction) idea is to contraflow HY 447 and 34 during peak ingress/egress times.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Ratty » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:20 pm

Ok? I was out of my seat and halfway to the exit. (Egress) Who yelled encor?
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by mrchiff » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:44 am

Stick to electronic music brother.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by GreyCoyote » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:09 am

OP: True genius always meets with hostility from tiny minds. Haters are just gonna hate.

FWIW, there are already two initiatives underway that you should consider. One is the "Pave The Playa" idea fronted by Simon, and the other is the BRC Subway proposal being evaluated by a working group led by Rhino. If you use the search feature on this board you can learn more about these and avoid duplicating their efforts. While the public discussion on these items has largely stalled, there is still a stalwart camp keeping the faith and pushing for our future growth needs.

Coordinate with these folks and see if perhaps your ideas can dovetail with the existing proposals. I believe the Pave The Playa idea is set to be pitched by Simon at the BMORGS April 1st 2015 meeting, so perhaps you could piggyback on that proposal and get a proper audience with the people who can make it happen.

As to the rest of you Fucko's, the level of snark in here is simply SHAMEFUL! :mrgreen:
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by fernley1 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:38 am

Getting in and out of Burning Man is not really that bad, kinda fun really.
If the parking pass fee really bugs you, the state is "repaving" parts of 447 this year. I like to think thats where my $47 dollars went.
Plus loading up a train, traveling from Reno, and unloading it would not save any time.

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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Bless » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:29 am

GreyCoyote wrote:FWIW, there are already two initiatives underway that you should consider. One is the "Pave The Playa" idea fronted by Simon, and the other is the BRC Subway proposal being evaluated by a working group led by Rhino. If you use the search feature on this board you can learn more about these and avoid duplicating their efforts. While the public discussion on these items has largely stalled, there is still a stalwart camp keeping the faith and pushing for our future growth needs.
Pave the playa, build a subway underneath the pavement, and build a train to the subway. I see no duplication or overlap!
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:38 am

Someone should start a parody conspiracy/Rush/libertarian BM talk radio show!

To the OP - your conspiracy has nothing to do with the vehicle pass system. The rationale is explained on the main BM website.

Short version: vehicle passes or the event is canceled. The vehicle pass system allows the event to grow a little each year so the founders can retire.

There is all kinds of fascinating reading in the permit and the EIS for the event.
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by theCryptofishist » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:43 am

GreyCoyote wrote:FWIW, there are already two initiatives underway that you should consider. One is the "Pave The Playa" idea fronted by Simon, and the other is the BRC Subway proposal being evaluated by a working group led by Rhino. If you use the search feature on this board you can learn more about these and avoid duplicating their efforts. While the public discussion on these items has largely stalled, there is still a stalwart camp keeping the faith and pushing for our future growth needs.
But isn't the subway another part of the urbanist agenda?

Although, if your an anti-urbanist, what are you doing in Black Rock City?
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Re: Personal Opinion for Vehicle Passes

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:45 am

BrotherNomad wrote: Another possible (and more feasable, compared to vehicle freight trains & parrellel dirt road construction) idea is to contraflow HY 447 and 34 during peak ingress/egress times.
Ha! I'll give you it's more feasible than a train or new parallel road, but it's definitely not feasible enough to do it.
Biggest problem: emergency vehicles. Ambulances and fire trucks and police have to have a way to move, and clogging the entire road, both lanes, and completely shutting down one direction of travel, AIN'T happening.

Problem two, the road getting to BRC is fine. There is an inevitable bottleneck at the gate as each vehicle is checked for stowaways, given instructions, and tickets scanned. That's where the slowdown is, it's not the road. More lanes on or parallel to 447 won't get anyone onto the playa any faster.

More people needed at the gate? Ok... how about YOU!!
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