Last minute ticket demand in 2014

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Chowski
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Chowski » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:46 pm

Hey Verus - sorry you didn't get a ticket. I understand how frustrating it is. I lost out on the Main Sale and STEP, but was one of those lucky few who got through on the OMG Sale.

I think one reason you might be seeing such a dearth of tickets and high demand is the Directed Ticket Sale. I did a little research and found that in 2013, they gave away 10,000 tickets in the People Who Matter More Than You Ticket Sale. This year, they gave away 15,000 to that same privileged group. I have gotten major flack from other Burners for pointing this out - people don't like being told that their Oonz Oonz Village is but one of many that are essentially exactly like it, but their contribution is considered so vital to the existence of Burning Man, that 15,000 other people are summarily dismissed from even being included.

If this trend (inviting the cool people before anyone else) continues, the day may come when Burning Man is entirely an invitation-only event, peopled with nothing but DJs on pre-announced line-ups, blaring shitty music into the dust for other Very Important Burners.

Don't mind the grumpies. As members of the "Radically Includable Comunity" they most likely haven't felt that ticket anxiety the way we were forced to this year. It sucks, and is likely to continue getting worse.

Good luck trying to get a ticket. If I had an extra, I'd help you out.

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Jovankat
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Jovankat » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:53 pm

Chow ski I think you meant they SOLD 15,000 DGS tickets. Those people paid just as much as you did. :roll:

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Chowski
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Chowski » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:58 pm

Yes, yes. 15,00 tickets were sold to people More Important Than Me. 15,000 tickets that were not available to anyone else. Because Radical Inclusion is nice idea and all, but Sparkle RV Village won't be profitable unless The Important People can guarantee they have enough space to rent out to Visitors.

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Eric
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Eric » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:06 pm

You keep clinging to this idea of "equilibrium", as if demand for a scarce item decreases over time. The BLM let us have a large jump in population last year - 13,000 people. The tickets sold, people were still looking. We're at the same population this year, but, if anything, the demand for tickets has actually gone up. While I am loath to compare us to music festivals, for some people it's the only thing they're familiar with - Coachella has 99,000 people a day, Glastonbury has over 110,000, 180,000 people went to Outside Lands in SF, and, for a non-music event, the Kumbh Mela religious festival in India attracts over 100 million people.

Do not think that scarcity will drive demand down, it will drive it up. Which sucks, but sucking doesn't make anything less real.

Oh - Chowski, if you don't like the fact that the Org has decided to have a Directed Sale, don't ever create a camp cool enough to be invited to participate. It's a reward for making Burning Man better, and there are people who've been invited on their second year due to the amount of participation they put it (you don't get to request Directed Sale, the BMorg sees which camps are really pulling out the stops). Of course, you could always just be bitter about it, and wonder why you don't get the chance...
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Verus » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:15 pm

So what percentage of the people going to burning man do you think are foreign? Just out of curiosity. I've never said this before and meant it, and I don't really mean it now but GOT damn foreigners!

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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Verus » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:19 pm

Eric is probably right. Just my desire to go wants an end to the madness :'(
If wishes were rainbows there would be a lot of fucking rainbows.

Edit: but isn't there a limited demand for certain things? Like it seems like there would be a limited demand for hemp underpants, for a pretty stupid example. A portion of the population would line up, but after word was fully disseminated, it would drop off. The wild card is those GOT damn foreigners. Close the border!!!!

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BBadger
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby BBadger » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:42 pm

Ah, it seems you're the kind of person who might also believe that Medicare costs will reach some sort of plateau as people die off at the same rate that people are added to the system. I don't think that'll happen in our lifetimes, nor will Burning Man tickets plateau without some major change that destroys the current fabric of society.

Too many people are retired, half-retired, unemployed or students. Those people make up the majority of people who attend Burning Man.

  • Retired: They have lots of free time to go to events like Burning Man, and not only that, they're the richest class of Americans with tons of free time, and may even own an RV.
  • Half-retired: The employed class. Unless you're in dire straights, holding down multiple jobs, you only work 8-hour days and have (paid) vacation time. You're essentially working a mere 1/3 - 1/4 of your time (while employed!). That "struggle" to find a week or two of vacation to go to Burning Man is easy, and you have the rest of your time to plan and prepare.
  • Unemployed: No this doesn't mean you're living on the streets homeless. Often this means you're mooching off your relatives and friends. Or maybe you are homeless, but not like cardboard box homeless, but rather are living out of a car or camper. $380 for a Burning Man ticket is nothing, and you already have all the facilities right there.
  • Students: We do our best to prevent those frat boys from coming to the event with the event dates, but what can you really do? Grad students especially (like when I was) have TONS of free time at the end of summer to go to an event like Burning Man.

All these groups are continuously growing. We all have more time off than ever before. Even bottoming out the economy doesn't produce conditions that favor a reduction in BM attendance: it means more people have "time off" to go. Who don't you see at Burning Man? The people in extreme poverty and the people with kids. We'd need an extreme shift of society to favor those conditions to see any sort of plateauing.

I must say, however, that I'm actually rather pleased that some people did not get to go to Burning Man. I hope some never get to go. Sometimes ticket scarcity can be a good thing.
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zorro sings
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby zorro sings » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:20 pm

Well I know one thing that would reduce demand and that is if Chowski got his/her way and there were no more directed sales to camps and projects.I cannot imagine even thinking about setting up our (small!)camp if I had to worry about 8-10 key personel finding a ticket in this environment.

For 11 of our 14 years never worried about such a thing and was able to devlop our camp to where it is now.It was a far sighted move by The LLC if you ask me.No directed sales,no theme camps.That is a new reality as well.
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby TT120 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:25 pm

lucky420 wrote:And a lot of countries have much better vacation days (time off) than we do here in the US

WAY better.
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Ratty » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:48 pm

If you are really worried about getting a ticket, work it. By that I mean shop the volunteer positions and see how much you have to work to get a reduced price ticket the following year. I tried it one year and begged out of the contract. I couldn't do 4 hours a day.
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby BBadger » Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:41 pm

zorro sings wrote:Well I know one thing that would reduce demand and that is if Chowski got his/her way and there were no more directed sales to camps and projects.I cannot imagine even thinking about setting up our (small!)camp if I had to worry about 8-10 key personel finding a ticket in this environment.

For 11 of our 14 years never worried about such a thing and was able to devlop our camp to where it is now.It was a far sighted move by The LLC if you ask me.No directed sales,no theme camps.That is a new reality as well.


Yeah, that would definitely qualify as a major change that destroys the current fabric of society. We saw exactly what such a system did in the lottery of 2012, and that was even with the first iteration of DD to try and help fix the problem. That's right, fragment camps and undermine their the ability to ensure that at least the core individuals are available to maintain cohesion.

I'd even wager that the demand, in terms of total tickets sold wouldn't change. People would be doing what they did in 2012 and attempt to overbuy in order to account for people in their camps who could not get tickets. The tickets would remain floating in individual hands until the last moment when there's no need to have them. Meanwhile camps and projects would assess their probabilities on whether it's worth planning for the event without the people to carry it out.
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Chowski
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Chowski » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:33 am

I think you all may have misunderstood my assessment of the Ticket Giveaway For People Who Matter. I understand that, without Thwomp Thwomp Village having an enormous, guaranteed block of tickets and prime real estate, they would have difficulty planning. If they were required to live with uncertainty like the rest of us Undesireables, they would be less able to confidently order the infrastructure needed to ensure that when Mark Zuckerberg helicopters in on Wednesday, he would be greeted with a pre-paid, turnkey, luxury RV from which he may "gift" grilled cheese sandwiches to the other people who have paid The Desireables for the opportunity to observe Burning Man in comfort. I am not bitter about that, I have come to accept the new reality of Burning Man. in fact, I was offered a paid position in one of these camps this year. A free ticket and cash to work in a camp serving the monied observers they tend to. If we are to discuss last minute ticket demand, it seems foolish of us to ignore the elephant in the room - namely an enormous, and growing annually, block of tickets (and real estate) for those who are favored by the organization. Some for profit, some ostensibly not. But still, an increasingly significant factor in ticket sales to all potential attendees.

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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Jovankat » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:33 pm

You sure sound bitter.

It's not just the huge turn key camps that get access to direct group sale though. The selection criteria seems to be "you officially gave something back to the community and left no trace last year". That includes theme camps of 20 people who just got together and did something cool, with their own money and time.

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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Eric » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:58 pm

Chowski wrote:I think you all may have misunderstood my assessment of the Ticket Giveaway For People Who Matter.


Not a giveaway - still pay full price, and it's first come, first served, just like every other sale. If you snooze, you lose out on your chance to get a DD ticket.

Also, the majority of them go to smaller, very interactive camps - bar camps, small theme camps, camps that pull you in. I'm sure the 2 & 10 camps get some (have no idea about the turnkey's), but that's not where the majority go. Those little bar camps you like to hang out in, those friendly people serving up grilled cheese sandwiches, or showing Rocky Horror at midnight? Those are your loathed "People Who Matter". Quite honestly, from the persona you present in your posts, they certainly do matter more to the event than you do. They are trying to make it more fun for everyone, not crying bitter tears that it's not rotating around themselves.
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Jovankat » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:01 pm

Eric wrote:
Chowski wrote:I think you all may have misunderstood my assessment of the Ticket Giveaway For People Who Matter.


Not a giveaway - still pay full price, and it's first come, first served, just like every other sale. If you snooze, you lose out on your chance to get a DD ticket.


I tried to correct that a few posts up, it's pretty clear he's not listening. :roll:

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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby Eric » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:06 pm

Jovankat wrote:
Eric wrote:
Chowski wrote:I think you all may have misunderstood my assessment of the Ticket Giveaway For People Who Matter.


Not a giveaway - still pay full price, and it's first come, first served, just like every other sale. If you snooze, you lose out on your chance to get a DD ticket.


I tried to correct that a few posts up, it's pretty clear he's not listening. :roll:


It doesn't fit the victimization narrative he appears to be operating under, based on the posts.
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Re: Last minute ticket demand in 2014

Postby BBadger » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:53 pm

Oh Chowski, if you're going to post something like that, at least don't lie to us and say "I am not bitter." You are bitter, and your resentment doesn't appear it is directed so much towards the DD system, but it appears towards people with greater means than you. Mark Zuckerbergs, RVs, helicopters, turnkeys: these are what you really resent. These DD tickets are just another manifestation of the system that doesn't treat you "fairly."

At the very least direct your vitriol towards who or what you really resent. Don't be naive: the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world don't need DD. They can just buy scalper tickets until they find one that isn't voided -- or just buy a ton of presale ticket at twice the price. In fact, they probably wouldn't even want to deal with DD because it would give the BMOrg more control over their tickets -- creating more uncertainty than what their money can buy. Their staff don't need to worry either. They're like scalpers, where they can pay whatever is needed for their product because they'll get paid more than their costs. With their pre-packaged RVs they don't even need to worry about time: just get a ticket at some time during the year and show up. Their money buys time and certainty.

Such people don't need or want DD and aren't the beneficiaries of it. If you're going to hate on DD, at least assign the blame to the people who are actually benefiting. These would be people from established camps and project organizers that get access to a set of tickets set aside for before the open sale. Not all the people who benefit are absolutely critical, but they're dedicated half a year in advance to attend and can't be holding onto tickets "just in case".

You're right that the DD system favors certain people over others, as it has always been with guest passes, early arrival passes, etc. There are people that the Org wants to ensure can attend and have guarantees on their ability to attend for planning, while the others fill in the spaces. It's not a division of desirables/undesirables. That would imply that some are selected for exclusion. It's not that dichotomy, bur rather ensuring that some will make it, while the others might.

The real elephant in the room is that there are just not enough tickets for everyone who wants to go. When resources are finite, you need priorities. When it comes to choosing between people/groups with proven reputations for bringing more than just themselves, and those without such qualifications, the former are going to be given preference. Even then the pool is limited, and remains at about one in five burners -- a ratio that's probably about right.
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