Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

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danibel
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby danibel » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:47 pm

I read this thread hoping to see that people were reporting getting offers of tickets. Didn't see that. I hope it happens soon.

Good luck to all the STEP children!!!!
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Psycho » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:15 pm

trilobyte wrote:@Schwarttzy - Scarcity's a bitch, unfortunately. Different systems have their pro's and cons, and the community spoke pretty loudly a few years back that they did not want to go through a drawing system.


I wasn't a big fan of the lottery system myself (especially since I 'lost', but still managed a ticket in the end 8) )... But that was the first year after 'The Big Sell-out', wasn't it (or maybe 2nd...)? And _ALL_ the tickets were done through lottery, thus a lot of major theme camps had trouble getting enough tickets to even staff their camp.

That's what prompted the direct sale tactic, iirc.

So, now, direct sale takes care of the big camps (and whoever else qualifies), and it seems that the normal sale is likely to sell out within an hour or so probably from this point forward.

As much as the lottery was hated the first time, I don't think it should be ruled out now. People might be a little more receptive to it knowing it might give them (at least the allusion) of a better chance than staring at a stick figure for 2 hours... If ticket sales are going to pretty much go the way they did this year, I'd rather just calmly throw my name in a hat, and let the ticketing peeps just tell me if I can buy a ticket or not at a later date... Much less stress on my part, and I don't even have to be near a computer at the time...

I know that's back-tracking the popular opinion of a few years ago (an opinion I shared at the time), but as always, things have changed...

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:44 am

Psycho wrote:I wasn't a big fan of the lottery system myself (especially since I 'lost', but still managed a ticket in the end 8) )... But that was the first year after 'The Big Sell-out', wasn't it (or maybe 2nd...)? And _ALL_ the tickets were done through lottery, thus a lot of major theme camps had trouble getting enough tickets to even staff their camp.


I'd put forward that the directed group sale to theme camps isn't exactly "fair" either, given that it grants first crack at veterans and friends of veterans (I know people who got tickets in the DGS who are NOT part of a theme camp and do NOT build or contribute anything more special than themselves to the event). Going back to a complete lottery would indeed generate the most level playing field, but to so many people the big theme camps have become too important to risk breaking them up.

Unfortunately no matter how you slice it, ticket scarcity is going to screw some people out of attending. Even more unfortunately because of the way our whole default world is set up, people with access to means (people who can bring big entertainment, or are friends of big camp leaders, or who pay outrageous secondary market prices) are the ones who can guarantee themselves entry, where folks with $390 and a dream have somewhere between a 1/2 and 1/5 chance of getting their ticket.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Sham » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:15 am

What we really need this year is a massive dust storm lasting for days, then a drenching rain which will turn the entire playa to undrivable muck. Once the news media covers this, the faint of heart will find a nice resort--with fancy hotels, hot showers, maid service and restaurants to go to. Until that happens, tickets will remain hard to get.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Elderberry » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:18 am

I think you're right. The weather has been pretty nice the last several years.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:44 am

Sham wrote:What we really need this year is a massive dust storm lasting for days, then a drenching rain which will turn the entire playa to undrivable muck. Once the news media covers this, the faint of heart will find a nice resort--with fancy hotels, hot showers, maid service and restaurants to go to. Until that happens, tickets will remain hard to get.
Just my 2 cents (3 cents in Canada).


Many have been praying for that since the start of the nice weather streak in 2011. I'm ready; I think.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby MontanaMan » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:50 am

Too bad STEP does not allow the selling and buying of VP.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Zubeneschamali » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:50 pm

Agreed that the weather has had a visible impact on the popularity and subsequent increases in attendance.

There is a whole generation of participants who have never experienced a proper dust storm or temperatures that hold above 110 for the afternoon hours.

Or how about both at the same time?

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby pink » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:53 pm

It hasn't been freezing cold in many years either.

We could use the rain mid week, rather than before most people got on playa. Although there is one dude who got stuck by will call and claims in a comment on the Blog that he got an infection from the 'filthy toilets that no one cleaned' while stuck there, who likely won't be back
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Ratty » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:47 pm

Yeah. I read that too. There's no doubt that the portos couldn't be serviced in the rain but what the hell did he do to get an infection? Spread out his lunch and picnic on the lid? Maybe he curled up for a nap and got pinkeye. I know, he took his stove in there and made hotdogs. It's a mystery I don't want solved.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Psycho » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:14 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:I'd put forward that the directed group sale to theme camps isn't exactly "fair" either, given that it grants first crack at veterans and friends of veterans (I know people who got tickets in the DGS who are NOT part of a theme camp and do NOT build or contribute anything more special than themselves to the event). Going back to a complete lottery would indeed generate the most level playing field, but to so many people the big theme camps have become too important to risk breaking them up.

Unfortunately no matter how you slice it, ticket scarcity is going to screw some people out of attending. Even more unfortunately because of the way our whole default world is set up, people with access to means (people who can bring big entertainment, or are friends of big camp leaders, or who pay outrageous secondary market prices) are the ones who can guarantee themselves entry, where folks with $390 and a dream have somewhere between a 1/2 and 1/5 chance of getting their ticket.


Yeah, the directed sale isn't perfect of course, but I don't see that going away... Other than the lottery year, this is the first year I wasn't actually able to just log into the website on sale day and buy a ticket (regardless of numbers of hours I had to wait)... If the popularity has gotten so high that it's just going to sell out in an hour or two, I don't think I'd be bothered by a lottery system anymore...

But I do agree it might be time for some more 'interesting' weather. I've only been going since 2010, but that year certainly had it's fair share of dust, rain and cold... Then 2011 was pretty nice, as has every since. And, with the rise of cheap, decent video cameras (and drones), and everyone becoming a documentary film maker, everyone wants to come out play in the 'desert oasis' now... And I'm not saying they shouldn't necessarily, but one of these years a lot of people are going to be in for a surprise... :)

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby tatonka » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:29 pm

MontanaMan wrote:Too bad STEP does not allow the selling and buying of VP.
MontanaMan


below is from the STEP info page from BM

Anyone offered ticket(s) through STEP will also have the option to purchase one (1) vehicle pass.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby kiss-o-matic » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:34 pm

Eric wrote:So the, say 59,500 people in line past the first several hundred are just cut out of any chance at STEP? Or do you put all 60,000 that missed tickets in? Most importantly, there is one huge flaw in this idea: it assumes that everyone who entered the Main Sale wants to enter STEP.


This is how I would do it:

1) Tickets sell out -> The queue freezes in place. All 60,000 accounts. I don't know the underlying differences in the green man line and STEP, but the queue would probably need to be moved.
2) At some point down the road, those remaining in line are sent an email in which they have 72 hours to respond which will confirm their place in the queue. Those that don't respond lose their place.
3) STEP continues as normal.

Remember: every person who is offered a ticket through STEP has 3 days to respond. Even. If. They. Don't. Want. A. Ticket.


Yep, I know this. When it gets down to the wire I think this value should be changed to 24 hours, but that's me, and isn't really an issue w/ my proposed implementation.

Why? Because of the 3-day response time, and people not clicking "no thanks" when they didn't want one.* The ticket offers just sat there, until they rolled over to another person where they just sat. The "line transfer" plan makes this problem endemic to the system.


I've known about this, and it's going to be there this year. It's pretty simple to cut that number down from "everyone left" to "everyone left that actively clicks a button and confirms they want in STEP".

*Note: the 3 day period is Good, since ticket offers are automatic. How would you like to be desperately waiting, but the weekend you go out of town for a romantic weekend with no technology is when the ticket offer rolls in at 11:30pm Friday Night. You don't get home until Monday morning - oh good, under the current system you still have until that night to buy the tickets! If that period was shorter, you would either loose out on the tickets, or you would have to put your life on hold waiting for an email that may not come.


I think 3 days is good until the end of July... then they need to start being a bit more hasty.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:11 pm

tatonka wrote:
MontanaMan wrote:Too bad STEP does not allow the selling and buying of VP.
MontanaMan


below is from the STEP info page from BM

Anyone offered ticket(s) through STEP will also have the option to purchase one (1) vehicle pass.


Yes the website says that, however there was no option on the STEP registration form to say you just wanted a VP. Only one ticket or two.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby remi » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:42 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote:
This is how I would do it:

1) Tickets sell out -> The queue freezes in place. All 60,000 accounts. I don't know the underlying differences in the green man line and STEP, but the queue would probably need to be moved.
2) At some point down the road, those remaining in line are sent an email in which they have 72 hours to respond which will confirm their place in the queue. Those that don't respond lose their place.
3) STEP continues as normal.



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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Ratty » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:04 pm

I have a question. In the main sale I waited an hour and a half till my turn came up and saw that it was sold out. Did everyone wait till their turn came up or did the screen change and it told everybody that the tickets were all gone? What time did it sell out? Did some people sit there for 2 hours? Was I close to the front or did all the losers get told it's your turn to not buy a ticket?

Anyway, whether I was next in line or whistling in the wind I wouldn't want the line transferred to STEP. It would take all hope from those who couldn't participate in the main sale. Bad luck shouldn't be carried over. (I work in the casino industry. Cards have no memory.)
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:26 am

Ratty wrote:I wouldn't want the line transferred to STEP. It would take all hope from those who couldn't participate in the main sale. Bad luck shouldn't be carried over.


There's really no objective right answer to this, but I'd prefer to think that luck favors the prepared. Being prepared and following all the instructions to a T should count for something; bad luck is one thing, but thousands of people making the effort and having it go completely to waste I think is a worse outcome than having a small percentage of the people miss the sale by random chance and not get a second one. JMO.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby kiss-o-matic » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:41 am

melodiousdirge wrote:
Ratty wrote:I wouldn't want the line transferred to STEP. It would take all hope from those who couldn't participate in the main sale. Bad luck shouldn't be carried over.


There's really no objective right answer to this, but I'd prefer to think that luck favors the prepared. Being prepared and following all the instructions to a T should count for something; bad luck is one thing, but thousands of people making the effort and having it go completely to waste I think is a worse outcome than having a small percentage of the people miss the sale by random chance and not get a second one. JMO.


This is actually a valid argument, and is the most glaring "defect" of the one-queue paradigm. It sucks that people that entirely missed the Individual Sale (for whatever reason) would have to rely on the secondary market and/or OMG Sale to get tickets. But yeah, as has been pointed out, there's no silver bullet here, and I would still advocate that there's more justice in someone that sweat the Individual Sale mayhem but just missed the cut off get their ticket early on in STEP, rather than someone that didn't even register for the Individual Sale. Just my $.02.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby samj » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:01 am

The suggestion to carry over the Individual Sale queue to STEP presumes the former was fair. So far as I can tell it mostly was in the technical sense, assuming you accept that those browser requests that happened to land within second/s of 12:00 should get the tickets, but in reality that still ends up being a lot like a lottery. I'm a technical person and was well prepared on a fast computer and pretty much the fastest Internet connection you can get, but still got through to the ticket store just after the last tickets went. For what it's worth it did look like they put some effort into the queuing system (moreso than for STEP), but I'm still surprised that one of the first applications of the Internet has yet to be properly implemented (ticket sales).

Similarly with STEP, despite being well prepared I wasn't able to get in the queue until 12:05. Contrast to last year when I purchased tickets without issue in the Individual Sale while data roaming at dinner in London on an iPad (only to then have to cancel due to a death in the family). Here's hoping I (we!) manage to track down a ticket, because I really want to check it out (this would be my first time).

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby asr9754 » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:25 am

It's been a week or so, has anyone heard from STEP with the opportunity to buy a ticket?

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Ratty » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:35 am

Samj,
I'm a technical person and was well prepared on a fast computer and pretty much the fastest Internet connection you can get, but still got through to the ticket store just after the last tickets went.
What time did you get to not buy tickets. Can you tell me exactly when the main sale was sold out. I got that message also. I was wondering if we all waited in line to get that message or were all quickly notified that it was sold out.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby danibel » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:44 am

asr9754 wrote:It's been a week or so, has anyone heard from STEP with the opportunity to buy a ticket?


I do wish to hear good news from someone. Surely there has been offers to buy ...
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby digital » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:56 am

asr9754 wrote:It's been a week or so, has anyone heard from STEP with the opportunity to buy a ticket?

There are reports on the Burning Man Reddit sub of people being offered tickets through STEP.

Keep in mind it is still VERY early on and they are only trickling in.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:02 am

samj wrote:The suggestion to carry over the Individual Sale queue to STEP presumes the former was fair. So far as I can tell it mostly was in the technical sense, assuming you accept that those browser requests that happened to land within second/s of 12:00 should get the tickets, but in reality that still ends up being a lot like a lottery. I'm a technical person and was well prepared on a fast computer and pretty much the fastest Internet connection you can get, but still got through to the ticket store just after the last tickets went. For what it's worth it did look like they put some effort into the queuing system (moreso than for STEP), but I'm still surprised that one of the first applications of the Internet has yet to be properly implemented (ticket sales).

Similarly with STEP, despite being well prepared I wasn't able to get in the queue until 12:05. Contrast to last year when I purchased tickets without issue in the Individual Sale while data roaming at dinner in London on an iPad (only to then have to cancel due to a death in the family). Here's hoping I (we!) manage to track down a ticket, because I really want to check it out (this would be my first time).


I entirely agree with this. There are two major facets to the ticketing issue; 1) a system that is fundamentally fair in terms of the way it's supposed to work, and 2) the technical hurdles to implementing said system with existing technology, services, and the technical aptitude of the folks involved in the sale so that the intent of the system is reflected during actual real world application.

I definitely got screwed over in both the main sale and step registration in terms of having something to click right at 12:00:00
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Ratty » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:35 am

Melodiousdirge,
definitely got screwed over in both the main sale and step registration in terms of having something to click right at 12:00:00
I didn't have a button to click on for 10 minutes in the main sale but the STEP button appeared after 2 or 3 minutes of refreshing and logging back in. I wonder where that puts me in the que. I expected it. Why should this year be any different? I have faith. Can't wait to see everyone.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:36 am

Ratty wrote:I didn't have a button to click on for 10 minutes in the main sale but the STEP button appeared after 2 or 3 minutes of refreshing and logging back in. I wonder where that puts me in the que. I expected it. Why should this year be any different? I have faith. Can't wait to see everyone.


I'm not sure, probably pretty good - definitely ahead of me. It seemed like a lot of people waited at least 10 minutes before trying the refresh trick.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby kiss-o-matic » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:26 pm

samj wrote: I'm a technical person and was well prepared on a fast computer and pretty much the fastest Internet connection you can get, but still got through to the ticket store just after the last tickets went..


Unfortunately that really doesn't matter. How technically do you need to be to refresh a browser? If the system only handles availability for 20,000 connections, 80,000 is going to pound it and a lot of people are going to be out in the cold.

That being said, I think this system could mature and be usable, but it changes every year. No idea if they ran simulations or not. I'd assume so, but not sure what the minimum acceptable value is.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby melodiousdirge » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:56 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote:No idea if they ran simulations or not. I'd assume so


You have more faith than I.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby Fan C » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:04 pm

Sham wrote:What we really need this year is a massive dust storm lasting for days, then a drenching rain which will turn the entire playa to undrivable muck. Once the news media covers this, the faint of heart will find a nice resort--with fancy hotels, hot showers, maid service and restaurants to go to. Until that happens, tickets will remain hard to get.
Just my 2 cents (3 cents in Canada).


Been saying this for a couple of years. Of course I usually had folks telling me how horrible that would be... :roll:

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Postby kiss-o-matic » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:38 am

Fan C wrote:Been saying this for a couple of years. Of course I usually had folks telling me how horrible that would be... :roll:


I got caught out by the trash fence on Friday last year and had basically 20 feet visibility for a couple of hours at least. We dropped our stuff and partied where we were. I thought it was my first real burning man experience. Couldn't see shit. Dust in my teeth. Big fun. I think it would weed a lot of people out though.


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