Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

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melodiousdirge
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:52 pm

The thing is, at this point, it doesn't really matter how they set it up - there aren't enough tickets. Some honest people who do everything right are going to get shafted by random chance, and some people are going to get lucky. The system could definitely be better; for instance the whole "wait for the button to turn green" in the main sale was fucking retarded and didn't work out for most people who waited, but as long as there are more people than tickets, there will never be a system that everyone thinks is fair. The most we can really ask for is that the instructions are clear (they were) and the system functions exactly as the instructions say it will (It never, ever seems to).
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by kiss-o-matic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:00 pm

How many people actually are dying to go, put in a lot of effort (including in secondary market) and come up empty handed? Not that many. STEP won't be exhausted I'm sure, but I know a ton of people that got tickets mid-summer last year.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:07 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote:How many people actually are dying to go, put in a lot of effort (including in secondary market) and come up empty handed? Not that many. STEP won't be exhausted I'm sure, but I know a ton of people that got tickets mid-summer last year.
I don't think any numbers can really accurately be collected, but I saw at least 100 burners along the highway on my way in on wednesday last year looking for tickets. If you figure that's only the most dedicated 5 or 10%, you're looking at a lot of folks who want to go and can't.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by kiss-o-matic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:16 pm

melodiousdirge wrote: I don't think any numbers can really accurately be collected, but I saw at least 100 burners along the highway on my way in on wednesday last year looking for tickets. If you figure that's only the most dedicated 5 or 10%, you're looking at a lot of folks who want to go and can't.
I would argue that most of them did not do their due diligence. I'm sure not everyone is going to get tickets, but as has been stated around here, those that put forth the effort, burn.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Wrath » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:46 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:but I saw at least 100 burners along the highway
I have a feeling those "burners" weren't trying that hard.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by asr9754 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:05 pm

Has anyone received a STEP ticket notification yet?

A theory: (Not a conspiracy, just a thought)....
Ostensibly some ticket orders have been cancelled over the last week or so, due to suspicious credit card information. So, there is a batch of cancelled tickets with no one's name on them. These cancelled tickets would have to be reallocated somewhere--perhaps to STEP? So in theory there may be a batch of tickets already in STEP just waiting for the first lucky people to get registered. Pure speculation, but possible.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:07 pm

Wrath wrote:
melodiousdirge wrote:but I saw at least 100 burners along the highway
I have a feeling those "burners" weren't trying that hard.
Wait, so you're saying the people willing to drive out to highway 447 and camp in some of the shittiest conditions around, INCLUDING weathering the rain, with signs begging for tickets... didn't try that hard?
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by gaminwench » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:09 pm

asr, they've already told us that any tix that were cancelled from the main sale would be put into the OMG sale, not STEP.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:10 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote: those that put forth the effort, burn.
In 2012, sure. Most people got tickets even after the initial lottery panic. In 2013 and 2014 it was a different story. To state the obvious; if you only talked to people you saw on the playa, obviously all you're going to hear is success stories. I'm open to having my opinion changed if you have any actual data though.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:11 pm

asr9754 wrote:Has anyone received a STEP ticket notification yet?

A theory: (Not a conspiracy, just a thought)....
Ostensibly some ticket orders have been cancelled over the last week or so, due to suspicious credit card information. So, there is a batch of cancelled tickets with no one's name on them. These cancelled tickets would have to be reallocated somewhere--perhaps to STEP? So in theory there may be a batch of tickets already in STEP just waiting for the first lucky people to get registered. Pure speculation, but possible.
STEP opened for sellers yesterday, so yes, there should have been a batch in there ready to go. But as gaminwench said re; cancelled tix.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by asr9754 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:31 pm

Wink,
:wink: thanks! Theory dissolved............

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Wrath » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:39 pm

melodiousdirge wrote:people willing to drive out to highway 447 and camp
Is it a good idea to add traffic to an already congested highway? At what point does OH I SO NEED TO GO conflict with civic responsibility?

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by melodiousdirge » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:41 pm

Wrath wrote:Is it a good idea to add traffic to an already congested highway? At what point does OH I SO NEED TO GO conflict with civic responsibility?
I'm not endorsing their effort; I'm using it to support a hypothesis (that there are plenty of people who put in plenty of effort and still get left out).
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Eric » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:42 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote:How many people actually are dying to go, put in a lot of effort (including in secondary market) and come up empty handed?
Really? From BMans own numbers this year: almost 80,000 people entered the Main Sale for 40,000 tickets. Roughly 21,500 people got tickets, at an average of something like 1.87 tickets each. That means almost 60,000 people did not get tickets - 3/4 of the people who entered the Main Sale came up empty. How many of that 60,000 just gave up on the secondary market? A lot? A little? There's no way to tell, but I can pretty much guarantee that the people still looking for tickets are going to be a much larger number than the tickets that become available. Now, if you're diligent and work all your connections and sales, then yes, you have a much better chance than someone who just waits for tickets to fall from heaven, but the stark reality is that demand is far greater than supply.

This not to make people give up hope, but I want to encourage people to be realistic and to not put all your eggs in one basket (or ticket dreams in STEP). Just like you plan for the worst while hoping for the best on playa, do that with STEP. I want to see you all make it.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by tatonka » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:51 pm

If I go I go , if not, no problem , will go motorcycleing :)
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by crease » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:57 pm

I honestly must be cursed. Sliced my finger with scalpel, had to go to hospital to get stitches and now literally just getting to a computer almost 7 hours after STEP has opened so its probably fairly safe to say im right at the back of the queue.


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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by kiss-o-matic » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:11 pm

Eric wrote:
kiss-o-matic wrote:How many people actually are dying to go, put in a lot of effort (including in secondary market) and come up empty handed?
Really? From BMans own numbers this year: almost 80,000 people entered the Main Sale for 40,000 tickets.
Yes, really. However, note that I'm talking about the past years, not the current one (and I'm only echoing the sentiments of a lot of people [including mods] around here). I know that roughly 1/4 of the people that 'wanted' tickets for 2015 year got them. Look around for about 5 minutes and realize that everyone is buying 2 whether they need 2 or not. Plenty of those people are on the fence, and plenty of those people cancel for other reasons, feeding STEP and the secondary market. When it all comes down to it, towards the end of August, it's not going to be 60,000 people that are dying to go and can't. That's my point. I imagine 2014's numbers were probably in the same ballpark as 2015 in terms of people that tried to buy tickets but got shafted. Half my camp didn't get theirs in the main sale, but of pulled through in STEP and from the secondary market.
In 2013 and 2014 it was a different story.
It was, but it wasn't that different. The STEP queue wasn't exhauasted but there were tickets out there if you put forth the effort.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Schwarttzy » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:22 am

I would really like to know why we have to do this rat race at noon BS. All I want, is to put my name in a hat, and if I get lucky, I get lucky. I'm tired of trying to compare the Burning Man Server time to my time, and figuring out when the gates really do open. I feel like this goes against what Burning Man should be, could we just go to lottery system. Because I'm tired or clicking right a noon, only to realize some how a lot more people clicked before me.

All I'm saying, is that every time I try and get tickets now... I wonder how I screwed up. It's not like you get any data back, saying "You've done good, but (some number) are a head of you." But instead I'm left guessing if I screwed up, or just unlucky.

Could I at least get a time stamp on website of the official server time so I'm not guessing, if I'm clicking to early, or late, but instead on time...?

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Ratty » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:32 am

I wish I knew whether I got to step on time because the entire system went down and that I registered at a time that I may get a ticket. Or that I was too late and should forget about step. Some people posted here that they didn't register till 9 or 10 minutes after 12 o'clock. I was considerably earlier than that but not precisely at noon like I planned. Meanwhile I'll just pretend I have a ticket coming and plan accordingly. This is not the ideal way to plan my yearly vacation. Borg could release some info to put it in perspective. But judging by past experience, they won't.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by trilobyte » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:38 am

@Schwarttzy - Scarcity's a bitch, unfortunately. Different systems have their pro's and cons, and the community spoke pretty loudly a few years back that they did not want to go through a drawing system. As for your specific question about the process, you'll want to contact the ticket support team for that (see the info in the first post on how to do that). It is kind of funny though, at the same time you ask for a random chance... you also ask to know your specific place in line. Think of it this way - the lack of knowing your specific place in line gives you the randomness you're looking for. :wink:

@Ratty - It all depends entirely on the flow of tickets into the system. The program has only been in place since 2012 and we've already seen years where most of the early signups were successful, and years where things were all kinds of bleak. Think positive thoughts, and encourage friends to encourage their friends who change their mind to either sell it at face within the community or contribute directly into STEP.

Good luck to everyone!

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Schwarttzy » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:49 am

Did you read a thing I said man...? I was saying that I want the lottery system. But if I can't have it, can we do some work on making everyone have fair chance, because 12 noon is apparently not the real time these thing keep opening up. It seems to be a bit sooner.

Looking at this post we're looking at approximately 1 minute to 1.5 minute fast.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Ratty » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:53 am

Thanks Trillo. You made me smile. I'm going to think of my place in line as the Step Lottery. I'm very lucky so that increases my chances. :P

Schwarttzy, Why do you think that Step opened before noon? I think it crashed and opened after noon. I got kicked off my burner profile at 11:58 and kept logging in till I got through. It's Burning Man. No different than any other year. I expected it.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Schwarttzy » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:21 am

Because I work with website every single day, and know most of the software they are using. At one point I was going to build the new Burning Man website but I didn't live close enough to get on the team.

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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Sham » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:31 am

Tickets will be dropped into the STEP program from anyone who is changing their plans to go to that TTITD. My thought is most of the tickets will be from out of the country. Those are the ones that were destined for will call. There are so many other reasons for people to turn their tickets back into STEP. Mostly it's a secure place to sell and buy them.
In the near future, tickets will start flowing through there and many more people will know for sure where they stand.
Tickets started shipping last year in the beginning of July. I assume it will be about the same this year. At that point, there will be all sorts of tickets and VP's offered for sale.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by kiss-o-matic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:09 pm

Schwarttzy wrote:Did you read a thing I said man...? I was saying that I want the lottery system
It's pretty apparent he did. BM tried the lottery once, and it resulted in the internet equivalent of people being burned at the stake, en masse. I dare say we won't see another lottery for a while.
Because I work with website every single day, and know most of the software they are using. At one point I was going to build the new Burning Man website but I didn't live close enough to get on the team.
There's plenty of programmers around here, myself included. That makes us extra critical b/c we can always do it better. FWIW, I think the system is about as fair as it can get. I would, however, like to see people w/ their place in line from the Individual Sale get automatically moved over to STEP at the same place in the queue. That seems like a very easy feature to implement.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Ratty » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:35 pm

I would, however, like to see people w/ their place in line from the Individual Sale get automatically moved over to STEP at the same place in the queue. That seems like a very easy feature to implement.
Today this sounds like a GREAT idea. I would be very close to the front of the line. However, what about the people that couldn't enter that day or had an unfortunate experience with their computer/internet connection/power source/work schedule ? They would be double screwed. Bad luck one day would knock them out of the next opportunity. Putting myself in their shoes I can't support that plan. It wouldn't be fair. (I'm a big fan of fair).

Step right up. Spin the wheel and take a chance.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Eric » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:17 pm

I would, however, like to see people w/ their place in line from the Individual Sale get automatically moved over to STEP at the same place in the queue. That seems like a very easy feature to implement.
The problem with this - there is no way for you to know where you were in line, so even if the BMorg did this people would still scream that they weren't as close to the front of the line as they "should" be. The "line" is also over multiple servers - which server gets precedence? How do you combine the lines on the varying servers fairly? Most importantly, like Ratty said above - how does this make it "fairer" for everybody. It's another example of "hey, this is a solution that puts me closer to getting a ticket", not, "hey, what's a solution to be as fair to largest number of Burners while avoiding the huge issues that have come up since the 2011 sell-out in the way tickets are sold".

Right now I'm ready for a long ticket-season, and hoping that lots and lots of good people get tickets. Good luck to everyone in STEP, and in the aftermarket.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by kiss-o-matic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:52 pm

Eric wrote: The problem with this - there is no way for you to know where you were in line, so even if the BMorg did this people would still scream that they weren't as close to the front of the line as they "should" be. The "line" is also over multiple servers - which server gets precedence? How do you combine the lines on the varying servers fairly?
From a computer science standpoint, the people shifted over to the STEP line would get the exact same order/preference they had in the Individual Sale line. If you can sort that line (which I assume it was) you can sort it and save the queue for STEP.
Most importantly, like Ratty said above - how does this make it "fairer" for everybody.
It doesn't, and that's a valid point, but I would advocate it is the lesser of two evils...especially for the first several hundred people that barely missed the cut off. In 2012 Wasn't STEP restricted ONLY to people who registered in the lottery but didn't win? I know 2012 is a great example of how to do things whorabley wrong, but I think there is some justice in people that went to the trouble to register and wait through the queue only to just miss it keeping their place in line.
Right now I'm ready for a long ticket-season, and hoping that lots and lots of good people get tickets. Good luck to everyone in STEP, and in the aftermarket.
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by theCryptofishist » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:38 pm

Sham wrote:Tickets started shipping last year in the beginning of July. I assume it will be about the same this year.
I just hope mail out isn't as fucked this year as it was last...
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Re: Secure Ticket Exchange Program (STEP)

Post by Eric » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:40 pm

kiss-o-matic wrote:I would advocate it is the lesser of two evils...especially for the first several hundred people that barely missed the cut off.
So the, say 59,500 people in line past the first several hundred are just cut out of any chance at STEP? Or do you put all 60,000 that missed tickets in? Most importantly, there is one huge flaw in this idea: it assumes that everyone who entered the Main Sale wants to enter STEP.

Remember: every person who is offered a ticket through STEP has 3 days to respond. Even. If. They. Don't. Want. A. Ticket.
So you would be putting people into STEP with no idea if they want to be there, and those people who don't want one would probably ignore the email since they're not going (at least a healthy percentage would), so those tickets sit for three days, only to go to another person who may or may not want them. Let me give you a real life example of why This Is Bad: last year people who put their tickets into STEP to be sold in the last few weeks weren't guaranteed a sale, even though there were more people in STEP than tickets coming in. Why? Because of the 3-day response time, and people not clicking "no thanks" when they didn't want one.* The ticket offers just sat there, until they rolled over to another person where they just sat. The "line transfer" plan makes this problem endemic to the system.

Having people enter STEP separately ensures that the people in there Actually Want Tickets. As shown above, even in this case tickets go unsold because people are too lazy to click "no thanks" (or whatever it says), I can't understand why anyone would want that a guaranteed problem.



*Note: the 3 day period is Good, since ticket offers are automatic. How would you like to be desperately waiting, but the weekend you go out of town for a romantic weekend with no technology is when the ticket offer rolls in at 11:30pm Friday Night. You don't get home until Monday morning - oh good, under the current system you still have until that night to buy the tickets! If that period was shorter, you would either loose out on the tickets, or you would have to put your life on hold waiting for an email that may not come.
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