Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

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Zman
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Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Zman » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:19 pm

Burning Man, Please distribute the 3000 parking passes that were held back in this years sale. This will help the 1000s of us with tickets but still with out a parking pass. This will end the EBAY passes that are priced more then a face value Ticket. How will you handle ticket holders at the gate who can't find a parking pass? Will we really not get in?

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Ratty
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Ratty » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:33 pm

OK. I think you better write a note and send it to ticketing or someone that works for the Org. We are a bunch of burners chatting with each other. It's a nice idea. Run with it.
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Jovankat
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Jovankat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:23 am

Do you mean they should do something like have more VPs available than tickets in the OMG sale?

Cause they're doing that.

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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:03 am

Has there been any word on the "many more VP than tickets in OMG" - or is the 250 the "many more"?

OMG SALE
1000 tickets at $390 each, and 1250 vehicle passes available at $50 each, plus applicable fees.

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Bemerritt
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Bemerritt » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:02 am

Pretty sure that's the breakdown. However, aren't the voided tickets from the line hoppers going into the OMG sale? So the gap is even smaller...

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danibel
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by danibel » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:22 am

Since the Vehicle Stickers are sold at a ratio of two tickets per VS - and I do believe most OMG sales will be for 2 tickets, close to 500 - that leaves 750 VS available. Of course not every OMG sale will be for two tickets but lets just say 80% will - that would be about 600 orders and 650 VS available to people just buying a VS.

I also would like to see MORE VS offered in the OMG sale and some available at the gate. I have friends with a ticket but no VS.
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Madgirl » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:27 am

I highly doubt they will be made available at the gate but last year there were lots of vehicle passes going up for sale in the week or two before the burn (people finding out last minute that they couldn't go, etc).
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Jovankat
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Jovankat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:47 am

The voided ticket purchases would also include VPs too though right? So hopefully they're being dumped into the OMG sale along with the voided tickets.

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Bemerritt
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Bemerritt » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:49 am

Jovankat wrote:The voided ticket purchases would also include VPs too though right? So hopefully they're being dumped into the OMG sale along with the voided tickets.
Very good point. If they jumped the line, very likely VP's were still available.

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some seeing eye
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:06 am

Just keep in mind, the purpose of the vehicle pass system is to allow raising the population cap in years to come.

The roads are one of the limiting factors. Nevada LEO have set 1000 vehicles per hour outbound as the safety limit. The more vehicle permits, the longer the exodus.

If BMORG cannot set a VP limit and stick to it, they will not be allowed by the BLM to raise the population above 70,000.

Just as we have been saying, tickets and vehicle passes on Craigslist, and the like at face value are starting to flow where they can be bought in a secure face-face transaction. And if you need a VP (or have a VP!) I hope your vehicle is carrying two or more people. It is much safer and fun to have someone to talk to while driving anyway!
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Ratty
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Ratty » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:30 am

Nope. I drive from Calif. alone. I don't feel a bit guilty about it. Every spare inch of my minivan is stuffed with compressed foam to install on bike seats. At least when it's time to come home I can help out by bringing other peoples garbage out with me. win, win.

And you're so right, the foam is a lousy conversationalist and won't 'sit back' so I can see out.
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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:53 am

Sure,

I don't think anyone seeking a VP doesn't get this restriction is about increasing the pop cap possibilities.

But when you take something away, you create a supply and demand issue. It's why 500$ VPs have surfaced. (Even if the demand is based on only on people's perception of a shortage)

If there were incentives other than restriction this wouldn't have happened.

Nor would a car with 3 people from anywhere father than 1000 miles be required to risk the drive to the gate (or just before the gate) to test this unproven theory (in 2015) about "abundant VPs" (so sing the sirens on this board) only to be denied and turned around.

How did that stop the car from traveling on this over burdened road exactly? The car made it all the way to the smaller state and municipal roads...on the hunt for this car pass...maybe all the way to the gate for the elusive VP. Where hoarders might have decided last minute to surrender it after realizing. "Lol, didn't need it after all".

So these cars without a VP are still driving with all their kit, all their people. On all those broken, aging, deteriorating roads, TWICE (after being turned around by denial at gate).

Holy smokes....glad we solved that problem. For NEXT year. if you dont get a VP next year..for 50$...better catch that flight for 800$!


So what incentives have been put in place to encourage 2 or more people per vehicle? (Other than the reduction of available VPs?)

Is there a fine for 1 person vehicles?
Is there an HOV lane for those who were socially conscious?
Is there a lecture to those who surrender passes at the gate....Cuz there seems to be one hell of a lecture for those of us seeking this golden calf...er car pass.

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Ratty
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Ratty » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:36 am

A FINE for people traveling alone? OK. I could forgo the gifting of foam and fur bike seat covers and go back to sharing my van with a passenger. Or I could pay the fine and resent that my gifts cost that much more. I could become a total douchbeetle and have a kickstarter or indigogo fundraiser, (even though I could afford the meager expense of my folly). I would gladly pay the fine if there was no charge for a vehicle pass and it was in the same ballpark amount.

Serious question here....Did people with tickets not get in last year because of no vp? I never heard of one. Did anyone ever post on this board to that effect? I guess I missed it. I'm not being a wise ass. I'm curious.
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some seeing eye
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:48 am

http://www.searchtempest.com/search?loc ... axYear=max

The number of people who wanted a VP but did not get it in the general sale is a small known number. It can easily be addressed by burner to burner sales of excess VPs, ride sharing, Burner Express, fly in. The most effective source of burner to burner VP sales is burner to burner in-person networks.
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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:32 am

SSE, I dunno what that link is supposed to be showing me.

I live 1000kms (2 day drive) north of California. In another country. On an island.

Ratty, <3 (I wouldn't dream of you abandoning you're art because of this situation) - I don't think anyone else should either. (Super not directed at you, friend) :)

Nimbus and Lulu did the ticket AMA on Reddit this year. Their response was


Lastly, having purchased a ticket does not entitle the ticket holder to also bring in a vehicle. Yes, it is very real that Gate will turn away a car with no vehicle pass, even if everyone in that car is holding a valid ticket.

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FIGJAM
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:37 am

I know what will happen, but if I tell you I will be intolerably chastised!!! :cry:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

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Madgirl
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Madgirl » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:38 am

I didn't hear of any ticket holders getting turned away due to lack of vehicle pass last year either. I'd be genuinely curious to know if that happened (and to how many).
The playa isn't "home" to anything or anyone, it's not magic, it's just a goddamm camping trip. A really awesome one. -Captain Goddammit

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MrBeardy
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by MrBeardy » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:49 am

There are 4000 available car passes to low income ticket holders. I suspect since these people are already strapped for cash, many wont be driving, yet have the opportunity to get a VP. Something to keep in mind if all else fails.

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some seeing eye
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:57 am

The link shows that there are tickets and vehicle passes for sale.

But only the concierge camp participants get their tickets and vehicle passes found for them and delivered on a silver platter.

Mr Beardy, excellent point! Find a low income ticket holder and offer them a ride.
Last edited by some seeing eye on Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ratty
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Ratty » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:03 pm

Figjam. I think I know too. Standing in the dunce corner for 35 days or so would get tiring. Even with you by my side.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:10 pm

MrBeardy wrote:There are 4000 available car passes to low income ticket holders. I suspect since these people are already strapped for cash, many wont be driving, yet have the opportunity to get a VP. Something to keep in mind if all else fails.
Those are picked up at will call, are they not? So that still requires a car full of people to still drive on the overburdened road...to get turned away if that doesn't work out?

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Jovankat
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Jovankat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:15 pm

Ratty wrote:And you're so right, the foam is a lousy conversationalist and won't 'sit back' so I can see out.
Ratty I really truly hope that this means you talk to the foam but it just doesn't talk back. The image of you chattering away to your cargo is just excellent.


As I understand it last year there were people with extra VPs who left them with gate as they didn't need them. The few folks who hadn't gotten a VP before they rolled up to gate were then gifted the ones left behind by others. But there were more than enough VPs floating around last year and as such the org has reduced the amount available to the number that actually got used last year. The ones that were gifted at gate would have been counted in the "how many were actually used" number. All that needs to happen for everything to work out this year is for that percentage of folks who have extra VPs to sort out on-selling or gifting them a little bit earlier. There *may* me some VPs changing hands after Will Call folk have collected their orders but VPless folks shouldn't count on that and the people picking up unwanted VPs at WIll Call should be encouraged to find a buyer or giftee for their extra pass before leaving Reno.

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MrBeardy
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by MrBeardy » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:51 pm

Melonblue wrote:
MrBeardy wrote:There are 4000 available car passes to low income ticket holders. I suspect since these people are already strapped for cash, many wont be driving, yet have the opportunity to get a VP. Something to keep in mind if all else fails.
Those are picked up at will call, are they not? So that still requires a car full of people to still drive on the overburdened road...to get turned away if that doesn't work out?
As long as you have someone that has a low income ticket, this will work out. The only time it might not is if you had them go in before you with a car they dont need their pass for, get the VP anyways, then come back later and leave the unused pass at will call for you. Thats when it would get sketchy, unless it was a reliable friend. You'd probably get rousted for this too. Then again the ticket does say admit one Grifter, which appears to fit this bill: "A grifter is someone who swindles you through deception or fraud."

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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:41 pm

FIGJAM wrote:I know what will happen, but if I tell you I will be intolerably chastised!!! :cry:
I wish I knew what that meant.

Cuz Nimbus and Lulu said they knew too...and it was "you'll be sent packing back to reno"

So who are we to believe?

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islandkat
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by islandkat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:37 pm

Zman wrote:Burning Man, Please distribute the 3000 parking passes that were held back in this years sale. This will help the 1000s of us with tickets but still with out a parking pass. This will end the EBAY passes that are priced more then a face value Ticket. How will you handle ticket holders at the gate who can't find a parking pass? Will we really not get in?
As an artist group trying to install big interactive Playa art, and as a group where we only found entry tickets in the last couple of weeks -- but still no vehicle passes, I hope Burning Man Ticketing reads this thread and listens. Burning Man, releasing the EXACT NUMBER of vehicle passes used last year MEANS WE ARE SHORT THIS YEAR, because there is always someone who at the last minute cannot go to an event and also cannot be bothered with trying to sell the tickets or vehicle passes, someone who has enough money or enough of an emergency that those tickets get tossed into the junk drawer. There is no way 100% of all vehicle passes released will be in circulation to the end, meaning we are short this year on VP's. There is always a percentage of tickets not used. Stuff happens.

And releasing the exact number as used last year leaves less room for movement, like a Rubik's Cube, there has to be room for play and gifting and selling, enough extra that there is movement in the economy, not a shortage. Better would have been to release the amount used last year plus at least 5%.

So meanwhile good folk, and artists like us, are scrambling to find VP's. I have written to so many Craigslist ads looking for reasonably priced VP's it is ridiculous. Most of them are asking crazy money, 350 and up for a single pass. So if we fail at the OMG sale, what are artists trying to bring two trucks with a huge art installation (and a camp installation and performance art supplies) to the Playa to do? Do we show up at the gate with our trucks and beg? We've found event tickets, and now it is like doing that all over again, like looking for tickets twice. Meanwhile we continue to work on the interactive huge art piece, hoping we will find a way in.

Will they turn us away if we show up with huge art but no vehicle passes? There has got to be a better way as this is crazy. We have the asset of tickets, but they are worthless without the magic key of VP. Maybe sell tickets in two forms, one with VP inherent within it, a "Ticket Plus" or "Premium Ticket" or whatever, and one without, a "Economy Ticket" or something such, one of each available to purchasers, I do not know. But this current way is terrible, for those of us who've looked for months on the secondary market, having to piece together this puzzle of tickets and VP's, still not knowing if it will work out or not.

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islandkat
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by islandkat » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:49 pm

islandkat wrote:
Zman wrote:Burning Man, Please distribute the 3000 parking passes that were held back in this years sale. This will help the 1000s of us with tickets but still with out a parking pass. This will end the EBAY passes that are priced more then a face value Ticket. How will you handle ticket holders at the gate who can't find a parking pass? Will we really not get in?
As an artist group trying to install big interactive Playa art, and as a group where we only found entry tickets in the last couple of weeks -- but still no vehicle passes, I hope Burning Man Ticketing reads this thread and listens. Burning Man, releasing the EXACT NUMBER of vehicle passes used last year MEANS WE ARE SHORT THIS YEAR, because there is always someone who at the last minute cannot go to an event and also cannot be bothered with trying to sell the tickets or vehicle passes, someone who has enough money or enough of an emergency that those tickets get tossed into the junk drawer. There is no way 100% of all vehicle passes released will be in circulation to the end, meaning we are short this year on VP's. There is always a percentage of tickets not used. Stuff happens.

And releasing the exact number as used last year leaves less room for movement, like a Rubik's Cube, there has to be room for play and gifting and selling, enough extra that there is movement in the economy, not a shortage. Better would have been to release the amount used last year plus at least 5%.

So meanwhile good folk, and artists like us, are scrambling to find VP's. I have written to so many Craigslist ads looking for reasonably priced VP's it is ridiculous. Most of them are asking crazy money, 350 and up for a single pass. So if we fail at the OMG sale, what are artists trying to bring two trucks with a huge art installation (and a camp installation and performance art supplies) to the Playa to do? Do we show up at the gate with our trucks and beg? We've found event tickets, and now it is like doing that all over again, like looking for tickets twice. Meanwhile we continue to work on the interactive huge art piece, hoping we will find a way in.

Will they turn us away if we show up with huge art but no vehicle passes? There has got to be a better way as this is crazy. We have the asset of tickets, but they are worthless without the magic key of VP. Maybe sell tickets in two forms, one with VP inherent within it, a "Ticket Plus" or "Premium Ticket" or whatever, and one without, a "Economy Ticket" or something such, one of each available to purchasers, I do not know. But this current way is terrible, for those of us who've looked for months on the secondary market, having to piece together this puzzle of tickets and VP's, still not knowing if it will work out or not.
Ugh, I normally do not sound like a whiner! I am a positively minded happy person by nature. This VP situation is getting the better of me :oops: Along with the challenge of finding tickets and then finding VP's while wanting to make art for the Playa. Wish all this part was not so hard.....Visualizing me and my team in the dust, meeting all of you...... :roll:

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Melonblue
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by Melonblue » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:58 pm

islandkat wrote: Ugh, I normally do not sound like a whiner! I am a positively minded happy person by nature. This VP situation is getting the better of me :oops: Along with the challenge of finding tickets and then finding VP's while wanting to make art for the Playa. Wish all this part was not so hard.....Visualizing me and my team in the dust, meeting all of you...... :roll:
You and me both buddy. (and hundreds if not thousands of others)

Times I feel like I'm sounding like a loose cannon, but it's truly just the frustration of "not knowing" and the fear of waiting until August 5th to find out if you're down one more strike.

Do you risk driving to the gate and risk getting turned around?

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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by danibel » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Since the low income people will get a chance to purchase a VS, It would make sense to make a little sign and sit in the will call parking lot and wait for one of them to come through and give them the $50 cash and have them buy one. This is of course provided they do not need it themselves.
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some seeing eye
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:53 pm

A low income ticket holder cannot transfer tickets or VP. Depending on how the VPs are scanned it may be easily detected if they did. That person would surely be barred from future low income participation if that scam was detected.

But you could offer a low income ticket holder a free ride to and from the event. The people I know with those tickets are really great people.
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Re: Dear Burning Man: Parking Passes

Post by GreyCoyote » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:44 am

In a strange twist of fate, it's conceivable the VP tail could wag the ticketing dog.

Example: I have a $40 VP I obtained from a friend, but no ticket. I want to go to the burn.
You have a $400 ticket you got in a private sale, but no VP. You want to go to the burn.
Your $$ risk is 10x mine. ($400 vs $40). The clock is ticking. You cant find a VP and it's the day before Gate. What do you do?
Answer: you sell your ticket to me. I go. You sit home listening to BMIR and thinking "this sucks".

So what happened? Economics 101.

You were a weak hand. I could afford to toss $40 into the bin and just walk away, but it's unlikely you can afford to toss $400 in the same manner. I wagged your dog. You folded because the risk was too high.

The reality I think is presently very different, but if the BMORG doesn't play their hand perfectly with regards to the VP/Ticket ratio, this scenario could play out.
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