How much longer will this site be around?

[Ballpark]

This site used to be very active. Here it is opening night I’m sitting at home relishing in my decision to stay home. This site used to inspire me to some extent but now it’s a ghost town. A few of the old residents hanging around like an old dusty ghost town waiting for the last light to go out.
What happened? Is this what’s happening to Burningman as a whole? Numbers are down volunteerism is down, theme camps scurrying to find members and the most telltale sign being the availability of tix and VPs on opening night. Something has happened, but what?
For me, I volunteered for quite a few years on Playa as did my wife. After 12 years I’ve seen a lot of departmental changes that I don’t think are for the benefit of us volunteers. You know, the people who make this event happen? Corporate rule has taken over in that nowadays metrics must be met no matter which department you work with. The fun and camaraderie has been replaced with streamlining and pressures to get more done in a shorter time frame.
For fuck sakes, I retired early to get away from this corporate mentality.
Now one of my favorite activities has pushed me away. The Burn isn’t what it used to be. I used to look forward to our weekly zoom meetings after a few months off. Now it is drudgery to be on those meetings. They used to be fun but I can no longer bear the thought of listening to the moderator go off on a rant and consume more precious meeting time.
It’s gotten to the point where I would log in and occasionally do a check in (mid meeting) just to meet the minimum criteria to be allowed to volunteer on playa.
We never had to check in mid way in previous years. That there is a sign that people have lost interest in being on the meetings. Why did this happen? They used to be fun. People would laugh and have a good time. Now it’s bang, bang, bang, get it done! That is until the mod goes off on a tangent again.
Another issue for me and others is most of us volunteers don’t eat, sleep and live Burningman like the paid employees or council members. The Org needs to realize that us volunteers are only involved for a few weeks a year. We don’t have the privilege of knowing what’s going on but are expected to be up to speed with just a couple of Zoom meetings. Sorry, it doesn’t work like that. On top of this I’m tired of the condescending attitudes from council members. Times when I arrive to my shift and say hello to a council member only to be snubbed by them and turn and walk away. There is no excuse for this. We need to work together to accomplish this task. That type of attitude tends to breed dissension. If council members are going to be onsite then they need to be willing to help out answering questions from those of us that haven’t had the luxury of being kept up to date. We are not your minions. Council members need to pull their heads out of their asses and treat people like humans. This all became apparent around 5 years ago for me. I kept volunteering thinking it would get better. It’s gotten worse.
I now tell my wife and friends I’ve had it with Burningman, that I’m done with it. I’m not saying I won’t go back but I won’t go back as a volunteer. My wife says we will be back ut I’m not so sure about that.

Rant off..

[ygmir]

good points and well said.
yeah, this site was so different when I joined, and I was sort of one of the "new" old timers...
I found though we disagreed on a lot of things in the default world, people came here and mostly put that stuff aside, or at least had respectable discussions. Sure, there was snark, and some insults, but when we'd meet up on playa it's be nowhere to be seen and laughter and merriment would ensue.
As reflects the times, people are divided.
Add to that, many of the "old timers" have just faded away. It's the way of things, to be sure, but, no new blood seems to have stepped in.

[Token]

I’ll chime in as an old timer that sticks around.

I can’t speak of your Zoom meeting and leadership issues. I stopped going after 2011, and we used clipboards and pencils back then in face-to-face settings


I will speak about this little spot.

Just like its Greek namesake, this is (or we can maybe say was) a forum. A place where people met, had discussions and formed a community.

That last part is key - community. People knew people and discuss things as a group.

Then social media happened and most places like EPlaya slowly faded to baseline life support.

Tribe, Twitter, Reddit, Facebook … all eroded the volume on this site.

I may never make it back to playa but I am sticking it here until they lock the door and turn off the lights.

This place remains an encyclopedic marvel of information and even if the old guard doesn’t post much anymore it is fun to see some poke their head up when someone needs help and they are the experts. Just an awesome community moment to see now and again.

It is alive, it is now a small village, and we are the same cranky Burners we have been all along. Stay awhile.

[ygmir]

good points, Token!
One of the things I enjoyed, was sharing stuff about building, inventing, and fixing things. There were a couple of fun threads, I forget the exact names, but "what are you working on", I think was one?

[Ballpark]

This is exactly why I used to frequent this site in my early years. There is a lot of information and helpful people here. It’s a bit sad to see it in a sunset state. Now that I think of it, most of it was pre social media explosion of Burningman.
I don’t have any interest in those sites and haven’t set up account for them. I did setup a FB account once several years ago but the spam was so bad I closed the account after two weeks and haven’t been back.

[Ballpark]

This is exactly why I used to frequent this site in my early years. There is a lot of information and helpful people here. It’s a bit sad to see it in a sunset state. Now that I think of it, most of it was pre social media explosion of Burningman.
I don’t have any interest in those sites and haven’t set up accounts for them. I did setup a FB account once several years ago but the spam was so bad I closed the account after two weeks and haven’t been back.

[some seeing eye]

I was about to start a new topic, but this is better.

ePlaya is a small community I value and especially value the individuals I have met in person.

The BRC Q&A has shifted to FB and Reddit. The in-fashion always shifts. There will be other online properties to come.

In my observation, we have expanded outward-facing online sites without a strategy, just based on a need. The great BORG brain and our good CIO can see the traffic.

Maybe ePlaya should become an AI for BRC and Regional Q&A?

[trilobyte]

I agree, it may (currently) be a small active community, but it's a good one. Fortunately, since it runs using open source software and rides along with existing infrastructure for hosting and serving content, it is a fairly inexpensive resource. I've had numerous conversations with founders, board members, and people in management about it over the years. At one point there seemed to be a lot of interest in being independent of third party commercial operators, but things ended up going a different direction.

It is unfortunate that current management and leadership have so openly embraced commercial data mining operations for community engagement. The sheepish excuse of "going where the people are" is true in the simplest of respects, but it is also a little cringe that it literally sells out the entire Burning Man community. I won't get into the details of some of the harmful ways that Meta and other firms data mine their users (plenty of articles are out there on the topic, and only scratch the surface compared to what I've been shown by insiders at some of those firms), but much more detailed demographics about all the burners and all the camps has essentially been made available for all the "doing it wrong" bad actors who have an interest. And of course, the minute somebody else builds a better mousetrap, the current platforms could quickly fall to the wayside, just as sites like MySpace, Tribe, Friendster and others before it. Through acquisition, mismanagement, or any number of other business choices by one of those third party commercial companies, those communities could disappear overnight, or in very short order.

My hope is that management and leadership either come to realize the risks, or that eventually Burning Man is able to make the (fairly small) capital investments they'd need to in order to build this community into a full-blown social network. I agree with Some Seeing Eye that the in-fashion always shifts. In the meantime, this site that has persisted since before all the commercial social networks (this current iteration has been around since 2003, but previous incarnations date back to the mid-90s) will keep doing its thing.

[chiefdanfox]

I hope a long time. I am at the "The idea of going to Burning Man is better than going to Burning Man" stage. This is the only thing that keeps me from the "any other idea, like watching paint dry" stage. So I lurk mostly.
I have been so busy with life that I really have no more time to plan, organize and go. At some point, I know I will go again, and show up with a trailer loaded with some largish art ( that damn cat, prb.), go to some camp spot and set it up. That sounds fun to me.

[Token]

In the age of algorithmic feeds and truly minimalistic temporal social media … that neither builds community nor culture …

… Having an indexed chronological database in the form of a BBS, with a wealth of history and knowledge is an actual asset to the BORG.

I’m kind of disappointed ePlaya is not held in higher regard internally, considering the core cultural aspect of BM.

In the current incarnation, where are we on history? 2004? 20+ years of magnificent information and unabridged stories.

That is treasure.

[ygmir]

I can say, it was instrumental in my deep dive into TTITD. I went, the first time, on a whim. Friends gave me a ticket, another Burngin agreed to go with me, and we went for the final 4 days. It was super, and fun and all. But, I found out about eplaya while there, and logged in, and what I found was fantastic. Filled with all sorts of characters, very active and very informative. It was fairly accepting in those days, of varying viewpoints and attitudes, skewing left, but open. Fun in "the bar" and other treads, conversations, constructive (usually) disagreements, jokes and stories. Once in a while a fun thread would pop up, and be just that "just for fun".
We'd all plan off playa meetups and events, etc.
It all led me to volunteer heavily, eventually becoming a manager and working in several departments and positions, though I concentrated in one area. I became "paid staff" at a point, and that made it all the better. at least for me and what I wanted out of the event, anyway.
It slowly faded in my observation in the mid teens. Folks left, died, or just didn't post as much. A few big kerfuffels among large volume posters and characters, drove many away, and then a few decided not to be very inclusive, or open to other ideas. "Bully" might be strong, but some became that, as well, especially on the more social threads.
I think this had a lot to do with the fade of popularity, here. Many of the old timers, for one reason or another, stopped posting, and the years of experience and advise, left with them. I'd agree the rise of alternative social media was big as well.
And of course, sometimes things just "jump the shark" and fade.
That's my 2 cents.

[Skuzzy61]

Well, here is an example. I wrote this post, at least, four times and did not post it. I do not mind a good snark or sarcasm, but being called a "racist" and then being told to put on my big-boy pants was just uncalled for.

Now I have to think about posting instead of just posting. It is just not worth the angst.

After making this post I will wonder what pejorative outpouring I will have to endure? It is just not fun anymore.

That said, I do come here to read quite a bit. I do not do "social media" at all. I prefer the structured environment of a bulletin board much, much more.

[trilobyte]

Speaking personally, I think snark and sarcasm are fine. It is also the kind of thing people experience in person in Black Rock City every day on every street and can come from campmates or the random person with a bullhorn or passing mutant vehicle.

When things get insulting and mean-spirited, I think it crosses a line. Text-based communications are great, but sometimes it can be difficult to convey tone, and I think that's where things can be tougher online than in person. In years past, things were quite rough and tumble, and I think that intimidated and scared off a lot of new burners. Some of the trolls also chased off a lot of site regulars. Our largest growth period (approximately 2011 through the start of the pandemic) took place after we reined in some of the really rough behavior and a lot of new-to-the-culture people came and joined. Since the pandemic, the turnover in a lot of departments has been significant, and I think many now just default to Meta without giving it any thought.

Tides do shift over time. The site has had growth periods and stagnant periods, and throughout all that time it has served as a place people can read and look up without ever even posting (or logging in, for that matter). While people can try to wiki-pedia-fy the living brain trust, or use it to train an AI tool that will be right at least some portion of the time, one of the things that I love about bulletin boards is the context of the humans who've written it.

[Simon of the Playa]

still here, you dusty motherfuckers, until i die.


then you'll have to look for the easter eggs i've hidden.

[Venom Snake]

still here, you dusty motherfuckers, until i die.


then you'll have to look for the easter eggs i've hidden.

It is getting new life old friend. Still making rainbows?