case studies

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 7:29 pm

I think I was posting back in 95-96 but not sure what my pseud was. May have been Raemo.

Posting to the BM thread on The WELL even before that.

Them's was the days. Certainly no ALLANON3 pinheads to have to deal with.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:56 am

Badger- yes! The WELL model is a great example of how this could work. Thank you for tying together a couple of heretofore untethered ideas. And for reminding me what a greenhorn I am.

Chai Guy- I want to thank you for bringing the issue of thread management to the foreground. My head's been deep in community management, with this idea that when I finally finish the new (significantly smaller) folder structure we could concentrate on moving the threads around. But we should definitely be throwing energy at it now and getting someone (some people?) in place. I'd love to have your help. Let's discuss more via email.

I thought we nailed the default auto-pruning down, but apparently not. I will look into it and report back on that in the Bugs folder.

Allanon03 - I don't know whether that was an offhand comment about Precipitate or the posing of a legitimate concern, but it came across as personal and petty. If you wish to raise a legitimate concern about this, please contact me privately (as others have done) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

Everyone - the feedback section is very much my workplace, and I while I can handle a little drift I have a very, very low threshold for intentional snarkiness here. I will exercise more control here than elsewhere as I have neither time nor patience for dealing with personal bs in these threads.

Don't make me get all Bill Bixby on you. Green isn't my color.

Tancorix - I agree that the board works pretty well, but there is definitely enough work to warrant a couple of moderators. As Emily says, thread management will require addiitonal hands - she & I simply don't have the time to do it ourselves, which is why we are still having the issues that CG pointed out.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:03 am

Allanon03 - I don't know whether that was an offhand comment about Precipitate or the posing of a legitimate concern, but it came across as personal and petty. If you wish to raise a legitimate concern about this, please contact me privately (as others have done) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.

Very diplomatic Technopatra. Given his attempts at vindictive shit stirring coupled with the cardinal infraction of posting out of context from a different board, I'm doubting he'll ever consider your suggestion.

Again, I'd submit that he's a terribly good example of why the mothers of some animals eat their young.

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:25 am

CASE STUDY # (what are we up to?) - In Progress

OK here's one that falls smack dab into the middle of a grey area. I've not yet acted and would like to run it by you guys to see what you think.

Someone re-posts a long snippet from the another board, presumably without the permission of the participants of that conversation and apparently with the intent to try to humiliate those participants.

Is it reported to me. It does appear to violate the TOS and Guidelines, however the people who are quoted in the snippet are also part of the eplaya thread, and they continue with the conversation without any ruckus. Owner of the other board is not happy, but believes in the self-governance of the other board by its members, and decides to leave it to the community to light their own torches.

Options:
1) "no harm, no foul". No one directly involved is complaining, so why worry?

2) Speak to the spirit of the guidelines. Give the poster a knuckle-rapping but leave the post as is unless the poster feels duly chastized and asks for it to be deleted.

3) Go with the letter of the law. It's a violation so delete the post (since the conversation is still bascially healthy it would be wrong to freeze it), contact the poster, and give them the warning that if they do it again their posting privileges will be suspended.

OK so option 1 is easiest, but I worry about setting a precedent of arbitrariness. Same issue for Option 2, plus it wold only feel satisfying itf the poster really understand that it wasn't cool, which is a gamble. Option 3 seems clear and justified, but feels heavy-handed given the fact that no one seems overly concerned. Even the original complaint-giver merely pointed out the infraction, with no apparent investment in the outcome.

Anyone have thoughts? Other options?

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:28 am

Badger wrote: Again, I'd submit that he's a terribly good example of why the mothers of some animals eat their young.

Badger...I repeat:

"Don't make me get all Bill Bixby on you. Green isn't my color."

Seriously, cut it out.

Zephryus · Post by **Zephryus** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:46 am

If it isn't causing too much of a fuss, I'd ask the person whose words have been unduly plagiarized how they feel about the situation. If the crossposting upsets them, delete it. If not, then leave it but also post a response stating in specific terms that the offending post is Not Cool. Let it serve as an example. Also, let the poster know in specific terms that malicious crossposting is Not Cool. And then drop it unless/until it becomes an issue again.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:10 am

>>leave it but also post a response stating in specific terms that the offending post is Not Cool

good answer.

at this point, the behavior's been repeated, so it's pretty clear that he didn't figure out how to behave properly on his own. it seems that giving a warning, and then using post deletion on future occurances (along with other potentially stricter measures) may be appropriate.

III · Post by **III** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:18 am

oh, and i'd suggest that, since his efforts were obviously intended to be incendiary, any complaints about responses to his behavior be taken with a grain of salt.

(did the whole "evaluated in context" section actually ever make it into the guidelines?)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:16 am

technopatra wrote:2) Speak to the spirit of the guidelines. Give the poster a knuckle-rapping but leave the post as is unless the poster feels duly chastized and asks for it to be deleted.

3) Go with the letter of the law. It's a violation so delete the post (since the conversation is still bascially healthy it would be wrong to freeze it), contact the poster, and give them the warning that if they do it again their posting privileges will be suspended.

OK so option 1 is easiest, but I worry about setting a precedent of arbitrariness. Same issue for Option 2, plus it wold only feel satisfying itf the poster really understand that it wasn't cool, which is a gamble. Option 3 seems clear and justified, but feels heavy-handed given the fact that no one seems overly concerned. Even the original complaint-giver merely pointed out the infraction, with no apparent investment in the outcome.

Anyone have thoughts? Other options?

thoughts:

(2) plus a subset of (3). (2), because the action does seem to violate the intent of the ToS, as well as caused unproductive chaos. and all of (3) excepting the "delete the post" bit, unless someone whose words were misappropriated requests the post to be pulled. if that occurs, then (3), as written would be indicated if the ToS are to have any teeth.

jmo.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:01 pm

pull the posts just dont make precipitate moderator she doesnt treat newbies fairly and badger uses a sock why should he moderate?

dont site tos and rules on me when nobody follows them unless it serves there purposes

III · Post by **III** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:38 pm

heh.

you think people actually are going to listen to your opinion, at this point?

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:14 pm

I'm mean to idiots, be they new or old. Deal with it.

And just for the record, my fine foot-stinking friend, I never asked to be a
moderator, nor do I wish to be one.

I do believe moderation is needed. My comments of Wednesday were
intended to spark thought in the minds of Technopatra et alia about how
to go about choosing moderators.

And finally, let me reiterate something that was said back in September
and bears repeating. Moderation, in my opinion, should be mostly
restricted to keeping on-topic areas on-topic and controlling obviously
incendiary behavior when it gets out of control.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:17 pm

P. you seem like moderator material.

A control freak.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:28 pm

In regards to the case study at hand, if it were me I'd probably go with a
combination of 2 and 3.

Since the post in question was intended as a personal attack, I'd be
inclined to say do it again and your privileges are suspended.

But because no one personally involved complained (neither I nor the
board owner felt so inclined), a response such as, "That was a complete
breach of etiquette, and a violation of the letter of the TOS and CG, so
please don't do it again," would also probably be sufficient.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:32 pm

there was no attack intended.

it's the truth. you think you're smarter than everyone and everyone is an idiot. If things don't go your way you have a hissy fit. not an attack....just the truth. since day one since i've been on this board you've been that way.

the board should work and run this way and that. blah blah blah.

a control freak.

what's wrong with facing up to the truth. some people are and like being in control. hey, nothing wrong with that right?

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:36 pm

If you want to attack me personally, please do it privately.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:44 pm

precipitate wrote:If you want to attack me personally, please do it privately.

for the last time. it's not an attack. maybe an opinion but far from an attack.

have you not said any of the words I've posted in my previous post. if you need help figuring which post I'm reffering to then here;

DVD Burner wrote:
it's the truth. you think you're smarter than everyone and everyone is an idiot. If things don't go your way you have a hissy fit. not an attack....just the truth. since day one since i've been on this board you've been that way.

the board should work and run this way and that.

it's been modified of course but you get the idea. This is something not needed to be done in private because you want it to be.
you dont PM those you feel you are smarter than. you're ready to call them an idot with no regard how they may feel.

am I right?

Now if you wanted to disscus this in person I would be glad to. over a beer or something.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:59 pm

I think I've made my "case study" as to why I say lets have P. as a moderator.

How soon can we get the plonker?

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:27 pm

We definitely need plonk. ASAP!!
As for the moderator thing, I'm for letting TP pick someone, giving them an anonymous sock ID, give them clear rules to follow and let them loose. There will be controversies; if we have moderators keep them anonymous so when they perform the moderator action they can insulate themselves from the flak, do what the rules and admins ask, and not feel any guilt about it.

A true sock would fit the bill nicely, and I bet TP has people in mind. I fully trust any decisions she makes.

About A3's comments I have a personal observation / intrepretation. A3's approach was a full blown breech of etiquette and that deserves a sharp slap back. But...what about the content of what he posted. After re-reading it, the content starts with Precip suggesting herself as a moderator. A3 then posts her comments about how she likes picking on newbies on this board. A moderator if one is chosen is going to deal with a lot of newbies on this board and if the moderator has admitted she likes picking on them...it's going to make life interesting. Then again, I haven't read those 3Playa threads in depth, I have no idea if the info is accurate, I'm taking it strictly at face value. But if it's correct and she said that...then she might want to reconsider her "request", or clarify her stand.

I've had run-ins with P in the past and I respect her a great deal. If she made a statement that she would try to be nice to the newbies (to resolve this "issue"), and we know how hard that can be, then she would be a damn good moderator. She has the aggressive can do spirit this place needs. So if this newbie thing gets cleaned up, TP can expect me to mention Precip's name each time the admin work load/ free time conflict is discussed. And Badger as moderator? Despite his sock, I've seen the man work on the playa as a Ranger, and his people skills are top notch. I feel he would be a great moderator, if he has time for it.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:40 pm

I dont know about all that. I'd choose Trey first or Dr.LRB. If it's someone that seems more even tempered and thinks well on their feet and the newbie factor really is not a proble, then I would say Stuart, Zephryus and maybe Ring. (not saying Stuart is a newbie.)

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:48 pm

Trey would be choice #1 in my book, but he already runs one board. Chai Guy and Stuart rank very high in my book. But my opinion means very little...this would be an ideal question to put to a vote and let the community decide.

III · Post by **III** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:31 am

>>runs one board

or doesn't run it, as the case may be.

i think i'll pass on being moderator, though, cause it would mean giving up the opportunity to call someone a damfool idiot when they are one.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:32 am

> Then again, I haven't read those 3Playa threads in depth, I have no idea
> if the info is accurate,

Ah. Then thank you so much for weighing in on the matter.

For the third, and final, time: I do not wish to be a moderator of the
3playa.

III · Post by **III** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:33 am

damn missing edit function.

i in no way mean to imply that i've been offered, or think that i might be offered a position as moderator, should such a position ever be offered to anyone.

Tancorix · Post by **Tancorix** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:15 am

Forgive me for being vague with the thread reading statements but considering how the TOS is being referred to for every little thing, I tried to exercise "Hypercaution". Lately this place has taken on a McCarthyesque feel that I don't particularily care for. In any event when the climate changes you adjust accordingly.

Speaking of not reading or in this case remembering the threads, it has been clearly stated by TP that no moderators have been selected. Trey, your name was mentioned in case that situation changes and was meant as a compliment.

In any event A3 had one valid point in all that rambling about Precip that might be worth picking up by someone else if they were inclined to do so. Beyond this point I have no desire to run with it. Unless something compelling is said, the forum belongs to everyone else.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:28 am

Agreed!

technopatra · Post by **technopatra** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:27 pm

I have been fair, tolerant, and objective, and have finally come to the conclusion that Allanon03's continual harassment of members of this community and his relentless, unfounded accusations are severe enough to invoke the TOS for the deactivation of his account.

I have been waiting to see if anyone would actually make a formal complaint, but no one did. I took it upon myself to deactivate him after reading yet another muckraking comment, this time in Rumors & Lies.

While one could argue that there are others on the board who are also muckrakers, it is my opinion that if you can contribute positively as well as negatively, then you are still welcome. If you've got nothing but malicious prolification going for you, then you've no right to be here.

One may also argue that this last comment was not as malicious as others he has made. I agree, but the pathology is undeniable.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and feelings about this action.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:30 pm

yes I do.

Please read your admin account and share what I wrote to you if you would please.

comming from you it may clear some things.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:44 pm

I can see your point Techna. Actually, I was mildly surprised that ALLANON03's account got the hatchet but certainly not sorry. I'm not in the habit of grieving for bugs when they're swatted.

What I'd ask along this is what's available as a tool short of a sincere threat on my part to compel a poster to retract a baseless accusation.
Sure, it may be petty - no, it is petty - but a baseless one none the less.

I draw your attention to a quote posted by DVD Burner

Quote:

Allanon03 is Badgers sock. seriously.

as Allanon03 he is being facetious. Not even good at being a sock.

I did a better job.

As mentioned before I demand a retraction. A public retraction. What's available to me to insure I get it?
[/quote]

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:45 pm

technopatra wrote:I'm interested in hearing your thoughts and feelings about this action.

I'm curious, did you send a warning to Allanon03 letting him know that his access priveleges are in jeopardy?

case studies

back on topic:

ok REALLY back on topic

Re: posting across forums and out of context

Re: ok REALLY back on topic

Case study: Allanon03

Re: Case study: Allanon03