No Bake Tent Reviews?

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Freedyjay
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No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Freedyjay » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:52 am

I've been trying to find reviews from people who have taken the No Bake Tent to the playa. Last year was a hot one, so how did they hold up? (In the heat, but in the wind too. Although it wasn't so windy.) They seem to be kind of a tent within a tent, so no need for a shade structure? That's super convenient if true (the numerous guylines less so.)

The other burner created tent, the Shiftpod, seems easier to put up but by many accounts requires a shade structure to not turn into a sauna, so this seems a better option for the burn itself. And less pricey, if still expensive.

I'd make a monkeyhut but transporting it might not be feasible for me, so really curious about the No Bake Tent and how the experience was last year.

Thanks!

(Also, Moderators, if it's bad form to ask about specific commercial products here, feel free to take this down. No offense meant.)

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Canoe
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Canoe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:46 am

Reports that the Shiftpod has issues with heat, humidity, zippers and leaking in rain. See this quote's thread...
ZigZag wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:01 am
Shiftpods are cute as long as it does not rain. My friend and I tested a Shiftpod and a Kodiak before TTID last year up in the woods of Minnesota. We had a big thunderstorm one night and the Shiftpod had 2 inches of water on the floor in no time. The Kodiak was bone dry. The Shiftpod got returned and the Kodiak under a monkey hut was awesome at Burning Man. YMMV
The data on the No Bake site is disappointing in that the tent rises with ambient, and they don't say if that's with people inside or not. With a good radiant barrier, I'd expect better than that. They could have gone shinier for more heat rejection, but then they'd have been reflecting heat at their neighbours.

There's testimonials at their site, but I'm not seeing positive comments elsewhere. Maybe they're just not in use enough yet.

And I'm not finding any photos of the interior, apart from one long shot.
  • They have an airflow gap between an outer layer and an inner layer, but with the outer layer so low to the ground, how well can that heated air gap get flushed.
    The more successful shade structures on the playa allow for air flow to take their absorbed heat away to reduce it radiating and conducting to what its shading.
  • Their "The inner tent is also made of our proprietary heat blocking fabric - so when the outer layer heats up it can't radiate heat into the inner tent." is accurate, but misleading.
    Any radiant barrier has reflectance and absorption. So same as the outer radiant barrier layer heats up (in hot air, hot sun, hot ground), so does the inner layer (by radiant or conductive heat): so the inner layer in turn will heat up and transfer heat inside through both conduction and radiating, but you do have a delay in heating up the interior as those heat transfers take place.
  • We can't see if the outer layer is also a radiant barrier on its inside surface. It would be good if it did, as the more reflectant it is, the less emissive it is, so while it gets hot from what it absorbs (radiant or conducted), the less emissive it is the less it radiates, so the longer it will take to transfer heat inwards.
  • Same for the inside surface of the inner layer. If that was a good radiant barrier its low emissivity would resist the heated inner layer from radiating at the interior, leaving heat transfer largely to conduction, for more delay before the interior heated up.
Some of the site's testimonials seem to match what I'd expect from what we can see of this design & implementation: delayed heating up of the interior in the morning for a longer rest/sleep time.
I would not expect this to be a super cool interior through the entire day, but with a DIY swamp-cooler, it should be much easier to keep cool than a regular unshaded tent.

I don't like the idea of my shelter on the playa being somewhat of a guinea pig. I want a longer track record, regarding heat and wind.

I think I'm biased against it as I had a dome tent with a rain fly that looked exactly the same colour and was supposed to reflect heat away, but the fly itself got hot and radiated that heat at the tent and made it unbearable, and that wasn't even in the desert.
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FoolsGold
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by FoolsGold » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:27 am

I'm not familiar with the No Bake Tent, but I used my Shiftpod at last year's BM. I was lazy and didn't put a shade structure over it. It, naturally, got hot. I was still able to take the occasional nap during the day, but it wasn't pleasant. I have shade for this year and am looking forward to seeing what the difference might be.

Mine leaked for the first time during a recent thunderstorm at the Great Sand Dunes NP. Not huge amounts but enough that it was annoying. I applied seam sealant to the windows (where the leaks were) and fingers are crossed.

Incidentally, they are very easy to set up solo and in the wind as well.

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Token
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Token » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:17 pm

The magic stay-cool tent is fiction.

No matter how many buzzword and how much pseudoscience gets tossed around there is no way around the laws of thermodynamics.

Will it warm up slower than the $100 tent from the big chain stores? Yeah, probably. But those extra 15 - 20 minutes sure ain’t worth that much $$$.

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Canoe
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Canoe » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:10 pm

Token wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:17 pm
No matter how many buzzword and how much pseudoscience gets tossed around there is no way around the laws of thermodynamics.
Will it warm up slower than the $100 tent from the big chain stores? Yeah, probably. But those extra 15 - 20 minutes sure ain’t worth that much $$$.
That's why I don't like the way their website words things. Doesn't tell the complete story.

But using actual science, as in better materials properly placed, it can be done better than that. No getting around the 2nd law, but heating up can be delayed a lot more.

For example, I've got a portable A/C running in my room right now. Two 16" lengths of this exhaust hose is insulated with Reflextix, and as inspired by their HVAC recommendations on their web site, is spaced out from the hose to create an air gap. The air gap provides insulation while providing the required gap for the inside surface of the Reflectix wrapped around the hose to function as a radiant barrier - their numbers claim 96% reflective. The outer surface of the wrapped Reflectix will function as resisting radiating, with an emissivity of 4% (1.0 - 0.96). A single layer of Reflectix is rated at R4.2. A single layer spaced with a 3/4" gap is rated at R8. When the A/C is cooling, the exhaust hose surface temperature quickly heats up to between 118F and 120F; room temperature is 76F.
  • One 16" section is spaced out by a double-layer strip of Reflectix at each end. (I didn't measure this air gap)
    The double-layer gap section has a surface temperature around 82F.
  • The other 16" section is spaced out by strips made of three layers of folded-over Reflectix, to create an air gap of around 7/8".
    This triple-layer gap section has a surface temperature around 78F.
So better solar & radiated heat resistance is certainly possible. A much longer sleep-in time is possible.

And, as per the 2nd law, if you get the structure footprint on enough playa, the playa ground becomes a bit of a heat sink. That's why if you can shade a tent, it's sides, roof and from sides out along the ground a bit, the ground under the tent isn't heated and you get more heat sink benefit. Same reason you use a sleeping pad, or playa-old-school was rug on the ground at night, so the heat isn't sucked out of you laying on the ground, rolled up during the day for whatever heat sink benefit you can get.

If the numbers are their web site are correct:
  • The No Bake design & materials reduces a fair portion of the solar oven effect, so that their tent warms up pretty much on par with the ambient air temperature. (Although we don't know if those numbers are with the heat of people within the tent.)
  • So, No Bake with significantly more sleep-in time than a regular tent in the sun. From sunrise, much like sleeping outside in the shade: baked by the air, but not the sun.
    When is the outside air too hot for you to sleep? That, plus possibly the heat of the people inside, is what you'll likely get on playa.
But I'd like to see the sunrise to noon numbers for:
  • the No Bake with people sleeping inside,
  • a regular tent with people sleeping inside, shaded from the sun from sunrise until past noon,
  • the No Bake with people sleeping inside, shaded from the sun from sunrise until past noon,
  • for a hexayurt, with people sleeping inside.
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Token
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Token » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:27 pm

Yeah, but that’s Reflextix bubble wrap you’re using as a reference, right?

The power of that product is low mass of the Mylar/HDPE or whatever it is coupled with the captive air bubbles, then you add any “gap” insulative properties.

Not easy to stich a tent with that.

The “woven sheet” Reflectix has much lower R values, and that is what would be a better example for a tent design.

The internal loading by a living breathing human is another topic altogether.

This is why I personally liked the cot on the shade side of my well parked Chevy truck and a sleep mask. Could sleep most of the day. Infinite thermal capacity when snoozing under the stars.

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Canoe
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Canoe » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:38 am

Token wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:27 pm
Yeah, but that’s Reflextix bubble wrap you’re using as a reference, right?
The power of that product is low mass of the Mylar/HDPE or whatever it is coupled with the captive air bubbles, then you add any “gap” insulative properties.
Not easy to stich a tent with that.
(polyethylene between two layers of bubbles, plus 'foil' surfaces)

The Reflectix used for insulating ducts gives the example of utilizing a material with a radiant barrier on both sides. As in, the 'power' of the product includes: the core air bubbles for insulation, a high surface reflectance and a low surface emittance, then its usage/installation for an air gap. (sticking with the reference point of the duct wrap example) That air gap provides insulation value while allowing the inside surface's foil reflectance to come into play. A low foil mass means it gets hotter faster from what heat it absorbs, so the rate of absorbing from conductance from hot air is reduced due to reduced temperature differential. As the inside surface foil heats up fast, conductive transfer is reduced and that being assisted by convection should practically end.

The low surface emittance is a 'power' too. As the outer foil surface heats up as the duct heat makes its way across the air gap, the inner foil surface, the air bubbles and into the outer foil, its low emittance greatly limits the radiating of that heat into the room (but the low thermal mass bites some here, as that foil heats up faster for a higher temperature differential for a faster conductive transfer to the air, but this is much less heat transferred than it would be with a high radiating rate). This is also observed when using Reflectix inside on an RV window, where the Reflectix heats up (so much so it can hurt to touch) but radiating that heat into the RV is limited by its low emittance (still better to install it on the outside...).


In an above post, I explained how such could be of benefit in a No Bake type design for rejecting more heat and getting more sleep-in time. The No Bake has:
  • its outer wall that could have a radiant barrier on both sides,
  • its air gap between the outer and inner wall , and
  • the inner wall could have a radiant barrier on both sides.
  • A good (90% or up) radiant barrier on the surfaces facing that air gap should greatly decrease the rate of heat transfer, and it's not in sight of nor heating neighbours.
  • What's the ability to vent heated-air from that gap? If it's hotter than ambient, some hot-air-rises exhaust flow? Add a mini PV powered exhaust fan to vent that gap?
  • For the heat that makes it through to the inner wall, a radiant barrier on the inside surface of the inner wall should reduce the rate that heat radiates to inside the tent (and it will help keep the heat from people inside at night, reflected back at them - but it would do that during the day too... where's the balance in reflectance to maximize sleep-in time).
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Drizzt321 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:01 pm

I got one but had my friend stay in it, as I brought my old dome and the No Bake Tent, and all they had was a crappy dome tent. And they were doing their Playa Wedding last year, so I decided they needed a nicer place to stay :)

I stayed in my No Bake this year at LIB, and Bequinox (LA Burn)

Overall it works fairly well, but only up to a point. As others have said, it's basically a radiant barrier with some vaguely reflective outside, and an air gap. I suspect that a small fan at the top to help pull air up the sides of the air gap would help some. At LIB I ended up waking up ~10am when it was getting too hot inside, but the air temperature was still relatively cool. Not sure if it was the LIB location, or the actual design. I'd say it's definitely better than any old cheap dome tent, but it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread. Still very good though. A swamp cooler would be a quite nice addition. Add a light sensor relay or temperature relay to turn it on :)

Also based on my experience at Bequinox this past year, once it's up and tied down well it's quite stable in the wind, although getting it up and tied down in the wind is a challenge for 1 person. Just use proper stakes such as lag screws.

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Freedyjay
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Freedyjay » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:14 am

Thanks for the review. Definitely helpful (as was the discussion above it.)

I'm definitely jumping on the lagscrew train this year (and swamp cooler too.) Figjamming my burn!

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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Drizzt321 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:17 pm

Lag screws are awesome, just don't forget a battery (or generator) powered impact driver. I like http://jetfitting.com/ for lag screws, galvanized are better. Website is a bit slow, but shipping is quite cheap. $7.95 for 3-6 day shipping to me in CA, and prices are decent.

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Freedyjay
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Freedyjay » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:38 am

Thanks for the tip. I'm looking at their 3/8" x 14" Hex Lag Screws, which are galvanized. Don't think anywhere close to 50 of them but I guess I can share!

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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by Strata » Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:20 pm

Our shiftpod has now been to Saguaro man 2017, burning man 2017, and unscruz 2018. It leaked at Saguaro man, and since I live in the SF Bay Area, I brought it back to shift pod in Napa and told them please fix it. They claim to have fixed it, I certainly see modifications to it, but my backyard isn't big enough to set it up and turn the hose on it, so I'm not sure.

At the burn last year, the shift pod was in a monkey Hut with aluminet covering. The burn was super hot last year, and the aluminet is only 70% shade, but we still managed to take afternoon naps. That said, it was equally comfortable outside in the mesh recliner chairs. That doesn't sound like much, but being able to enjoy the privacy and noise reduction of being inside the tent without a thermal penalty was excellent.

This year I'm adding a second layer of aluminet, and I hope like heck that it will be less hot. Since the aluminet will not really shed water, only diffuse it a little, then if it rains heaven forbid we will find out if the leaks are fixed.

Oh yes, and I also got a rain fly, though it's unclear how to deploy it on the shift pod. I'm going to check again for any videos from shiftpod telling how to set up the rain fly. It didn't come with any directions, and it's far from obvious.
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by +KLOVE+ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:14 pm

Bought one last year (2017). Guy who sold it was super cool! A few thoughts...
1. It was WAY cooler (in temp) than any other tent I've used...however it's still fuckin hot because the playa is fuckin hot. It did afford a few extra hours of sleep but I also brought two battery operated fans which worked well. You can't hang in there during the day to escape from the heat. Doesn't provide that much cooling but it will get you to at least 10 am before dying. There were two people who stayed in the tent as a frame of reference.
2. It's dark in that bad boy. Like really dark...bring lots of string lights or battery operated lights to hang everywhere. This was great for sleeping in but a bit hard to see what the heck you are doing. And forget about putting on make - up unless door is open.
3. Super easy to set up and very spacious, although one end of tent is wasted space. It is suppose to be used for storage but it's not a big area and doesn't provide any relief from the heat like the actual tent does.
4. It did really well in the wind and didn't get too dusty but make sure you bring the vents that are recommended on the website. They helped a lot but also block out light.
5. The tent itself has a large footprint so just know that going into it so you have room to set it up.
6. I would set it up prior to the playa because you have to hook the inside tent to the exterior cover using a ton of small hooks. It's not hard but slightly different than a typical tent. If you do it beforehand then it sets up like a regular tent as you only have to do this the first time. It took me about 30 min to set it up the first time and about 10 min every other time.
Also, I would recommend lag screws to tie it down but only because I really like using a power drill.
Last edited by +KLOVE+ on Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by trilobyte » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:20 pm

Just catching this and giving it a nudge to recommendations, since it's a thread seeking recommendations on a commercial product.

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Re: No Bake Tent Reviews?

Post by emerguntzuntzy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:40 am

So now that we're [mostly] post dust, how did folks with No Bake Tents fare this year? I'm considering getting one for next year but would love to hear what NBT dwellers thought!

Also I'm curious what folks think about the NBT for winter camping. Thanks!

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