How do I build a flame thrower

Ideas, advice, tips, and tricks for making installations of all sizes or making smaller pieces and jewelry.
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gyre
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Post by gyre » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:06 am

Every ignition creates some kind of pressure wave.
Is there a technical difference?
Or a legal one?

spectabillis
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Post by spectabillis » Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:07 am

gyre wrote:At what point does rapid oxidation become an explosion?
adrenelin rush with a constricting sphincter?

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gyre
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Fire Safety

Post by gyre » Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:46 pm

If you can't be a good example,
you'll be a horrible warning.


Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the night.
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire

It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.

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Token
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Post by Token » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:52 am

MikeVDS wrote:Now putting out an eye gets rid of fun and instantly sobers the drunk engineers so that should be avoided because it violates rules 1 and 2.

Image
Sorry to jump in late on this one...

This is the exact moment when the "Medical Staff" administers the 10cc of 80 proof du jour, first to themselves, then in 10 minute intervals to themselves again, the poor eyeless fucko, and all comers interested in administering first aid or diversion to the newly cycloptic fucko's writhing pain.

Once three doses of proscribed spirits are consumed by all parties involved, to eliminate the possibility of "One-Eye" going into shock, proper administration of medical assistance shall commence being that rules 1 and 2 are again satisfied and no further rule violation exists.

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lapeer20m
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Post by lapeer20m » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:04 am

spectabillis wrote:
gyre wrote:At what point does rapid oxidation become an explosion?
adrenelin rush with a constricting sphincter?
an explosion isn't rapid oxidation at all.....it's near instantaneous oxidation


that reminds me....

i've taken my flame thrower (made from 40# propane tank) across the border from michigan into canada and back a half dozen times or so. There is so much to look at in my bus that they have never even questioned what the crazy tank with wires and hoses coming out of it might be. but i have a pre-programmed answer i have been planning to use.

border guard: "what is that thing?"
me: "That, sir, supports rapid oxidation"
border guard: with puzzled look on his face "what?"
Me: "it's a flame thrower! shoots a 30 foot flame into the air, it's really cool!'

I am quite confident they would let me pass after i explained what it was. There really aren't too many rules on flame throwers. Besides, the border guards almost always like my jacuzzi bus. many of them have taken a tour of it.

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lapeer20m
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Post by lapeer20m » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:11 am

unjonharley wrote:Flame throwers are easy...Buy a cheap BBQ lighter, bend over and fire away.. Care must be taken about back burn..
if you are eluding to the danger of the flame going down the tube inside the propane bottle and causing an explosion.....don't worry about it. it is impossible for that to happen.

for something to burn, it needs, fuel, air(oxygen), and ignition. There is no oxygen inside the propane cylinder so it cannot burn or explode.

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:13 am

So where is the dividing line?
Even the very rapid oxidation in some cases,
is still a measurable thing.
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire

It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.

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lapeer20m
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Post by lapeer20m » Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:14 am

sorry, i missed the question the first time.....

here's some stuff i found:

"At times, only a fine line separates combustion reactions and explosions. The typical explosion is a self-sustaining combustion reaction that proceeds at an ever-increasing rate and cannot be stopped. A thorough understanding of the mechanisms of combustion and explosion reactions can help us to achieve the one and avoid the other."


i'll keep searching for a better answer.

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MikeVDS
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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:55 am

I'd say an explosion is just something that breaks open from internal pressure. So you need some sort of membrane or enclosure to burst to really "explode". You can have small firecrackers explode, while large propane cannons just create combustion (hopefully!). At burning man membranes are just moop, so we create large combustions.

Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:03 am

Rat Bastard: I think you need to go back to law school. While your at it you may want to look into getting a dictionary and look up "projectile". Flame effects are NOT projectiles. While your at it you may want to check the definition of "explosive". You're interpretation of the law is quite strange. The event is called BURNING MAN. Hence all the love for fire. Also you seem to know little about the event. There are PLENTY of fire performers, some with quite large fire effects in the deep playa. If you need to be OSHA safe than BM really isn't the type of event for you. Maybe Rainbow Gatherings are more your speed.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

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MikeVDS
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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:13 am

^ Careful, or the cult of the one eye will come after you.

Archantael
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Post by Archantael » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:21 am

Ain't nothin wrong with a fez...come to think of it I have yet to meet anyone wearing one that I didn't like. I've been invited to start down the traditional path towards earning one of the funny hats but I decided it wasn't for me and said no. Hmmm...it might be time to revisit that.

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MikeVDS
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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:53 am

I think ratbastard is thinking military style flame throwers. Which are intended to hit things and continue to burn them. I think you could get away with it but you would have to perform on a platform as to not scortch the playa, and not kill anyone. It would also be advisable to have permits for such a weapon. Though I don't think anyone was talking about this style of "flame thrower" except where I mentioned it asking if that's what the intention of the original poster was.

Image

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gyre
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Post by gyre » Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:50 pm

If I remember correctly from discussing the inefficient burning of fuels, adding kerosene, especially at certain points in the barrel will create a sustainable flame that can be propelled.
Controlling the amount would keep it from throwing a sustained fire onto something.

There are others with a lot of skill in this area.
"Everything is more wonderful when you do it with a car, don't you think?"
-girl by the fire, watching a tree moved by car bumper in the bonfire

It would be a shame if I had to resort to self-deception to preserve my faith in objective reality.

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MikeVDS
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Post by MikeVDS » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:08 pm

Yes, it would be a key part of a liquid propellant design to make sure all the fuel ignites and burns up. If you don't do it right you'll leave a burning trail. Or if it all doesn't ignite end up covering you camp with a fine mist of gasoline :oops: . That is not ideal.

Toolmaker
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Post by Toolmaker » Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:22 am

Some excerpts from the ORG website concerning flame effects.. since someone said you would get booted for them here's why you won't! Keep in mind this refers to the CAMP area.. NOT the OPEN PLAYA. Out on the open playa there are less restrictions.

Q. So what's the deal with fire?
A. Fire and open flame within theme camps.

Everyone enjoys a camp fire to gather around or the light of a tiki torch to guide them back to camp at night but fire and open flame present a unique set of challenges on the playa. Wind is an ever-present aspect of the Black Rock desert and must be taken into consideration. Winds can blow sparks and embers out of fire barrels and blow them across the open playa great distances until they settle against something (tents, shade structures, camping gear, art works, etc). Wind is also a factor with tiki torches and taller flame effects. Precautions should be taken to prevent the wind from knocking them over and a sufficient perimeter around them kept clear from flammables. To help you prepare for and use open flame or flame effects in you camp we have created these guidelines to help keep you camp safe and to protect the safety of participants please read them thoroughly.

Guidelines for open flame, burn barrels, Tiki torches etc within theme camps:

No fire barrels or open flames shall be left unattended. At least one camp member will be designated fire tender and be within visual distance at all times. If found unattended while lit, open flames or burn barrels may be extinguished and/or confiscated if there is sufficient hazard.
If winds pick up, all open flames must be put out immediately and burn barrels must be extinguished if they begin to throw sparks.
Open flame above 10 feet tall shall be secured from the wind and safety perimeter increased appropriately.
Open flames or burn barrels must be extinguished at the request of any Ranger or Emergency Services personnel.
A 20’ Zone around the fire must be free of any flammable materials such as but not limited to: cloth, paper, tents, plastic, etc.
All liquid fuels must be kept at least 50’ away. Please check out the guidelines for the storage of fuels at Burning man.
A supply of at least 5 Gl of water must be kept on hand to extinguish the fire in case of high winds (wind can blow embers and sparks a long distance on the playa!) or other hazards.
Burn barrels shall be secures and constructed in a way that the burning surface is at least 6" from the playa to prevent baking or scaring of the playa surface.
Note: please remember that Gasoline is a dangerous fuel to use to start fires. Explosive vapors can instantly build up as it is applied and as the fire is lit it can flash and burn you!
Guidelines for flame effects within theme camps:

No large scale flame effects using 40 or more gallons of fuel or burning of large art installations that when fully engulfed in flames produce a tremendous amount of heat require a Burn Shield Platform.
No pressurized liquid fuels are to be used within the camping area.
Flame effects shall be secured and constructed in a way that the burning surface is at least 6" from the playa to prevent baking or scaring of the playa surface.
If winds pick up, all flame effects must be put out.
Flame effects above 10 feet tall shall be secured from the wind and safety perimeter increased appropriately.
Flame effects must be extinguished at the request of any Ranger or Emergency Services personnel.
If found unattended while lit, flame effects may be extinguished and/or confiscated if there is sufficient hazard.
A 20’ zone around the flame effect must be free of any flammable materials such as but not limited to: cloth, paper, tents, plastic, etc.
An appropriate safe perimeter will be maintained at all times to prevent injury to participants.
No flame effect shall be left unattended. At least one camp member will be designated fire effect operator and be within visual distance at all.
This account has been closed as demanded by Wedeliver.

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