
Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
- EGAZ
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Ssshhhh..... I won't tell no one. 

2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,
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If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'

- BoyScoutGirl
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Thank you guys, both for taking me seriously in this endeavor and for giving me caution when I might be getting in over my head.
As you can tell, I am the least engineer-y on the team. I'm good for things like "Does Google know reasonable angle of inclination for a playground see-saw?" and sketching cartoon layouts and "Let's put all the parts into a spreadsheet to estimate costs given these three scenarios." My major goal for this project, apart from building a fun and functional piece of mobile art, is to learn fabrication skills I currently don't have.
eldergeekaz, it's really sweet of you to offer, but I'm pretty far from Phoenix, unfortunately. I do know of a metalworks where I'll be taking welding classes, so you can rest assured I'll have professional training.
I just got off the phone with one of my guys - turns out he's done both stick and MIG welding and owned a gas shield MIG welder for a while before moving out west. He'd be happy to own the one linked, if it's in good shape. We're currently investigating, so thank you, Capt., for the tip! If we do buy that welder or similar, we'll hold onto it for future projects too.
As anticipated, all (or most) parts to be welded will be from new steel, and we currently don't anticipate anything thicker than 1/8".
As you can tell, I am the least engineer-y on the team. I'm good for things like "Does Google know reasonable angle of inclination for a playground see-saw?" and sketching cartoon layouts and "Let's put all the parts into a spreadsheet to estimate costs given these three scenarios." My major goal for this project, apart from building a fun and functional piece of mobile art, is to learn fabrication skills I currently don't have.
eldergeekaz, it's really sweet of you to offer, but I'm pretty far from Phoenix, unfortunately. I do know of a metalworks where I'll be taking welding classes, so you can rest assured I'll have professional training.

I just got off the phone with one of my guys - turns out he's done both stick and MIG welding and owned a gas shield MIG welder for a while before moving out west. He'd be happy to own the one linked, if it's in good shape. We're currently investigating, so thank you, Capt., for the tip! If we do buy that welder or similar, we'll hold onto it for future projects too.
As anticipated, all (or most) parts to be welded will be from new steel, and we currently don't anticipate anything thicker than 1/8".
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
- Captain Goddammit
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
One of my tricks, if you're using a wire feed like that on thin metal, sometimes it's easier if you plug the machine in through an extension cord, to intentionally reduce power.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
- EGAZ
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
I just got off the phone with one of my guys - turns out he's done both stick and MIG welding and owned a gas shield MIG welder for a while before moving out west. He'd be happy to own the one linked, if it's in good shape. We're currently investigating, so thank you, Capt., for the tip! If we do buy that welder or similar, we'll hold onto it for future projects too.
You should be good to go then. and it will give you practice time!
I knew you were in SD. It would have been fun to help out. I haven't had a good welding project ion awhile.....
You should be good to go then. and it will give you practice time!

I knew you were in SD. It would have been fun to help out. I haven't had a good welding project ion awhile.....

2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,
Gotta beer?
If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'

- BoyScoutGirl
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
If I were staying in San Diego I would drive out to Phoenix over a long weekend to learn welding in a heartbeat! Unfortunately, I'm moving quite soon to that incipient nation of Cascadia...
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
- Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8498
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Oh I thought you were in Seattle...
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
- Tiahaar
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Would you be interested in wheels like this?

Honda Goldwing front wheels w/tires or others like that can be had for @ $50 or so on auction, or there are a couple motorcycle salvage places down there around SD, never been to them but they might have a serviceable set. It takes a metric size axle with the stock bearings, though I have pressed them out and put SAE sizes in.

Honda Goldwing front wheels w/tires or others like that can be had for @ $50 or so on auction, or there are a couple motorcycle salvage places down there around SD, never been to them but they might have a serviceable set. It takes a metric size axle with the stock bearings, though I have pressed them out and put SAE sizes in.
Burning Man 2003-19-FO2020; Desert Carillon, HypnoHorse, Ulaume's Chimes, Iron Native, Black Rock Solar, Portal Collective, Center Camp Café Stage and Sound Tech, 747 Project
Starship Palomino
Starship Palomino
- BoyScoutGirl
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Wait... Cascadia is a real place? I thought it just meant "Pacific Northwest region," of which Seattle is a part.Captain Goddammit wrote:Oh I thought you were in Seattle...

Tiahaar, that motorcycle wheel+tire looks like a great combination of the visual aesthetic we want plus not the cost of new Skyways. One of the guys in the group is a motorcycle nut, so I'll ask him about it. He mentioned motorcycle parts once, but it's a good reminder. I think the problem point was finding a matching set of 4. Maybe I just need to find/make a cooler hubcap for the trailer tires...
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
- Dr Helix
- Posts: 1005
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
[quote="Jackass"]I've never welded stick, just light- medium duty MIG stuff, mostly with the millermatic 175. It does everything I need, and then some. Great machine. I tricked mine out swapping out the stock cord for an 8 AWG 16' cord, now I rarely need an extension![/quote
This is the ticket.
This is the ticket.
"Love, Rockets and write when you get work"
- Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8498
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Cascadia is about 100 miles from Portland. It's a real place.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
That 175 is a good machine jackass. I have a Lincoln 175 and a Hobart 230. I am liking the Hobart, especially on heavier stock.
For thin gauge stuff, I'll use the 175. The smaller wire flows great. Anything over .0625 inches gets the Hobart.
I have a couple of gas bottles. CO2/Argon for mild steel. Helium/Argon for stainless. I would like to use the Helium/Argon for everything, but it is pricey and only makes prettier beads for mild steel.
For thin gauge stuff, I'll use the 175. The smaller wire flows great. Anything over .0625 inches gets the Hobart.
I have a couple of gas bottles. CO2/Argon for mild steel. Helium/Argon for stainless. I would like to use the Helium/Argon for everything, but it is pricey and only makes prettier beads for mild steel.
As the camp evolves.....
We got this! 2016/2019
We had it! 2020 Well.....we thought we did
We almost lost it! 2021 Certainly did in 2020!
We have no idea where it is! 2022
Who the hell are we and why are we here? 2023
We got this! 2016/2019
We had it! 2020 Well.....we thought we did
We almost lost it! 2021 Certainly did in 2020!
We have no idea where it is! 2022
Who the hell are we and why are we here? 2023
- ygmir
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67707&hilit=cascadiaBoyScoutGirl wrote:Wait... Cascadia is a real place? I thought it just meant "Pacific Northwest region," of which Seattle is a part.Captain Goddammit wrote:Oh I thought you were in Seattle...![]()
Tiahaar, that motorcycle wheel+tire looks like a great combination of the visual aesthetic we want plus not the cost of new Skyways. One of the guys in the group is a motorcycle nut, so I'll ask him about it. He mentioned motorcycle parts once, but it's a good reminder. I think the problem point was finding a matching set of 4. Maybe I just need to find/make a cooler hubcap for the trailer tires...
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
- Ed Banks
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Not sure if you're joking, but this is not a good idea. Your welder will attempt to draw the same current, no matter what size wire you run to it. You're only going to create heat in the extension cord from all those electrons scurrying to get fed into the metal.Captain Goddammit wrote:One of my tricks, if you're using a wire feed like that on thin metal, sometimes it's easier if you plug the machine in through an extension cord, to intentionally reduce power.
A longer arc length, running .030-.035" wire, faster travel speeds, stringers (no weave) are standard fare for sheet metal welding.
*edit*: Proper metal fit up is key as well, should be as tight as possible, but this is true with thin/thick material.
- Dr Helix
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
When did everyone become a welder? 

"Love, Rockets and write when you get work"
- ygmir
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
hhmm I use .024 wire, sometimes reverse polarity on sheetmetal.
YGMIR
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
Unabashed Nordic
Pagan
- Ed Banks
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Last week, we all went and took/passed the 6G test. You didn't get the evite?Dr Helix wrote:When did everyone become a welder?
- Dr Helix
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Have em'Ed Banks wrote:Last week, we all went and took/passed the 6G test. You didn't get the evite?Dr Helix wrote:When did everyone become a welder?
https://www.facebook.com/Fergusonweldingservice/

"Love, Rockets and write when you get work"
- Captain Goddammit
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
In theory you're right. But in actual practice, it's a trick that works great, taught to me by an almost 60 year old friend of mine who has been a pro welder since he was 18.Ed Banks wrote:Not sure if you're joking, but this is not a good idea. Your welder will attempt to draw the same current, no matter what size wire you run to it. You're only going to create heat in the extension cord from all those electrons scurrying to get fed into the metal.Captain Goddammit wrote:One of my tricks, if you're using a wire feed like that on thin metal, sometimes it's easier if you plug the machine in through an extension cord, to intentionally reduce power.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
-
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- Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:26 am
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- Camp Name: Barbie Death Camp/We got this!
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
You will never here me call myself a "welder". I have about 45 years experience and do not consider myself an expert. I learned on oxy/actly and an arc welder with stick. When MiG came along, it was manna from heaven.Dr Helix wrote:When did everyone become a welder?
I do have a critical eye for the weld though. I can tell a good one from a bad one. I have enough confidence to make my suspension parts from scratch (control arms, uprights, brackets...). So far nothing has broke.

As the camp evolves.....
We got this! 2016/2019
We had it! 2020 Well.....we thought we did
We almost lost it! 2021 Certainly did in 2020!
We have no idea where it is! 2022
Who the hell are we and why are we here? 2023
We got this! 2016/2019
We had it! 2020 Well.....we thought we did
We almost lost it! 2021 Certainly did in 2020!
We have no idea where it is! 2022
Who the hell are we and why are we here? 2023
- Ed Banks
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:57 am
- Burning Since: 2014
- Location: Motor City
- Contact:
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
I never said it wouldn't work, I questioned the safeness of it. You're increasing the resistance of your circuit by choking it down, this will in turn create heat, heat causes fires.Captain Goddammit wrote:In theory you're right. But in actual practice, it's a trick that works great, taught to me by an almost 60 year old friend of mine who has been a pro welder since he was 18.
- EGAZ
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
No, not certified. But many decades of welding up trailers & ramps/gates, (open and enclosed), race car frames & components, headers, bike frames, Head-ache racks, etc. I have also welded black pipe at work in a past life (HVAC&R) for cooling towers and other low pressure closed loop systems with stick.
Solder, braze, gas weld, (with/without filler rod) Stick, (all positions) and MIG, (light to heavy). TIG is the only thing I have not had enough seat time to be good at.
One day though.....
Solder, braze, gas weld, (with/without filler rod) Stick, (all positions) and MIG, (light to heavy). TIG is the only thing I have not had enough seat time to be good at.

2nd time better than the first. And the first was pretty Freakin' Great!
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,
Gotta beer?
If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'
I am Camp2. - A solo camp - Stop by and say Hey!,

If you are another Solo Burner & very 'Radically Self Reliant' - Maybe we can 'Do What We Do!'

- Captain Goddammit
- Posts: 8498
- Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
- Burning Since: 2000
- Camp Name: First Camp
- Location: Seattle, WA
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
It doesn't create as much heat as welding does...
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."
- BoyScoutGirl
- Posts: 1643
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
I owe everyone an update. Not surprisingly, considering when inspiration struck, the hand car was not built in time for the 2016 burn. The hold-up was finding a suitable location to build on the timeline we needed. We have started purchasing parts and I've enrolled in a three-month welding course. We've even found contact info for a guy in the area who has built a hand car before. We plan to start building for real around January, after a few mock-ups.
Thanks to each of you for the input, critique, patient explanation, and banter. Onward!
Thanks to each of you for the input, critique, patient explanation, and banter. Onward!
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Thanks for the update!
It shall be fabulous!
It shall be fabulous!
- BoyScoutGirl
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:04 pm
- Camp Name: Lamplighters!
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
First 3D-printed model. No steering or drive train implemented, but having a physical object in hand really helps us get a feel for things. Already we can tell that there wouldn't have been enough space for the lever, and that we'd probably like the wheelbase to be longer.

Note also that we're thinking of having a well cut into the deck so the wheels can turn. When going straight, we currently plan to have the inner edge of the wheel at the outer edge of the decking.

Note also that we're thinking of having a well cut into the deck so the wheels can turn. When going straight, we currently plan to have the inner edge of the wheel at the outer edge of the decking.
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
- burner von braun
- Posts: 1595
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
I'm glad to hear you are still pursuing your hand car BSG. It is a good idea. I understand how some projects end up getting shunted to the next year, Haha! It happens to me every burn. I have a particular project that I'm determined to bring this year after having to set it aside last time. And please do continue to keep us updated here, it is great fun following your progress.
- BoyScoutGirl
- Posts: 1643
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- Camp Name: Lamplighters!
- Location: SD, CA
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Thank you, von Braun! I will endeavor to post more regularly; at the very least when we have something to show...
Second 3D-printed model, with longer wheelbase and shorter (3.5') lever. We dislike that the front and rear wheel wells aren't the same, so that will probably be changed in future iterations.

Modeling a front (inside) wheel on a turn to get an idea of turning radius. The white rectangle is the wheel. Green vertical dotted line is the axle, and green solid perpendicular lines represent the decking. The green 45 degree angles are ancillary to steering.

Second 3D-printed model, with longer wheelbase and shorter (3.5') lever. We dislike that the front and rear wheel wells aren't the same, so that will probably be changed in future iterations.

Modeling a front (inside) wheel on a turn to get an idea of turning radius. The white rectangle is the wheel. Green vertical dotted line is the axle, and green solid perpendicular lines represent the decking. The green 45 degree angles are ancillary to steering.

When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Wow.
I just toss materials and components on the floor and throw sparks at it until it works.
I just toss materials and components on the floor and throw sparks at it until it works.

- BoyScoutGirl
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Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Play and experimentation are certainly how the human mind learns best; they are the testbeds in which we grow intuition. I envy the ability to do as you describe.Elliot wrote:...I just toss materials and components on the floor and throw sparks at it until it works.
Having developed very little mechanical intuition (so far!), my current strategy is to play and experiment on leetle plastic bits first. Later comes more considered experimentation with comparatively expensive metal parts where I have to pay by the hour for shop space and tool rental.
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Re: Little girl's off-rail industrial hand car
Scout, you don't owe any explanation! It was just a wisecrack -- and also intended to express admiration for your technology and modern technology skills.
And... I ought to plan ahead better on my own Stuff.
Enjoy your weekend!
And... I ought to plan ahead better on my own Stuff.
Enjoy your weekend!