Solution to ticket problem (2 week event)

[graidawg]

ok, the solution to the ticket problem is already out there. Regionals.

thats the whole point of official regional events. to extend the time and potential attendees. Nowhere in spain is about 10,000 people others around the country and world are getting bigger - people choose to go to them now because the reno burn is too big/organised/expensive/whatever.
sure some of the regionals wont get any bigger than they are now but thats cool sometimes you want to play with just people you already know others will grow until they are as big or bigger than the main burn or it will fizzle out/move/whatever. so if you want to go to an event at a time other than the main burn you have lots of choices

Also lets consider the enviromental impact on the black rock desert, we are already seeing an increase in the dust whats going to happen when you have masses of vehicles driving on the desert for twice as long?

But i suppose if it was decided to have two events (not counting juplaya) you could always have them at 2 seperate locations

[Captain Goddammit]

Here's an idea to stop the sellout: all tickets $3000.

[Doctor VonBacon]

I will gladly pay $3000, but at that price, I want Larry to personally clean the RV afterwards..

[Captain Goddammit]

I'll tell you what isn't the answer: Regionals.
They're the best attempt so far, sure. But they just aren't BRC and they don't make me go "OK! I'm satisfied, now I don't want to go to Black Rock!"
Sorry man, regionals just don't do it.

[tatonka]

not going this year , didnt even try for tickets. got stuff to do , but Im going to the soak which is burn related . It was fun last year but not the fun of larrys burn. Will try to have fun this year also.

[BBadger]

Here's an idea to stop the sellout: all tickets $3000.

I'm also thinking that multiple sustained disasters in the latter half of the week. Something like flooding that keeps people from leaving for half to a full week after the event leaves, or multi-hour condition alphas on Saturday. Even better, something that strands people even before entering the gate on Thursday-Saturday. Maybe it could wash out the roads temporarily. "Sorry man, too much rain. Gotta go back to Reno!"

Then it's not even about the price of the ticket, but whether the ticket even buys anything.

I'll tell you what isn't the answer: Regionals.

Yeah, I like regionals, but they're still not the same. I treat them more as additional events to attend.

I'll be hitting up two regionals this year (SOAK and E11). Good times await!

[Dr Helix]

As I predicted. No response from the OP since Saturday. R.I.P. thread.

[graidawg]

I'll tell you what isn't the answer: Regionals.
They're the best attempt so far, sure. But they just aren't BRC and they don't make me go "OK! I'm satisfied, now I don't want to go to Black Rock!"
Sorry man, regionals just don't do it.

sure all regionals aren't the answer, however some are better than others and if you cannot get to larrys burn they're better than nothing and they will get better

[dustyfux]

Dammit, I thought it was a reasonable request to extend 2016 to two weeks. You know, something I could really get behind.

Instead its a bunch of hippy dippy everyone is entitled to a fair chance bunch of ballywag.

Meh, whatever. I'm 7% invested. Sure, lets do this thing. Now, please repeat your idea slowly.

[Divinefeminine]

SEVERAL HUGE ONE WEEK REGIONAL BURNS RIGHT ON THE PLAYA. In other words more playa burns, that are spaced out over a period between April and October. Next year for 2017 start a second burn during another month that lasts for a week, at black Rock Desert. And then a couple of years later, a third one, and so on, and on. I'm curious the responses or thoughts on that. Am I smoking some stronger stuff tonight? If my first idea is experiencing that much criticism and backlash then it will likely bear no fruit and nothing will result. If this idea is more of a reasonable possibility to include more, than we should pursue this path. I can hear people saying they want the candle to burn harder only once, spaced out burns will be “mediocre burns”. So you won't be tripping over art, and camps for the first years and maybe during one burn the man is only 50 feet tall again instead of 1,000 feet tall. What does that sound like, sounds like maybe how I heard it used to be 10-20 years ago. Did those people 10-20 years ago complain about a mediocre burn? And perhaps over time there can be, I don't know a One week a month burn matching the extravaganza and frenzy of 2015 levels, if you really want that.

Do spaced out weeks answer the logistical complaints, of traffic, camps, etc. that stemmed from my first idea (the 2 consecutive week idea)?

Why is it so important to include more? Well just one personal reason is my college friend Ronnie from Cleveland Ohio whose been trying to get tickets for the past three years always coming up short and my friend Anna from Norway who recently expressed interest failing to get tickets in 2015 and again in 2016. They see all the media showcase this crazy land and amazing peoples, the songs, the dr . Suees Videos on youtube, they hear me explain what an amazing and transformational experiences I've had, they hear about that perpetual orgiastic like feeling for a week. How is that making Ronnie and Anna feel and how many 10s of thousands of Ronnie's and Anna's are out there. . How connected can these people really become from these parts of the world learning about Burning Man just over the past couple of years. And what about the person who maybe has something to do at the moment of ticket sales, maybe someone actually has to work on a regular job in the middle of the afternoon on a Wednesday and can't spend an hour staring at a green man walking across his computer screen. Or the teacher who has to start school when the school year begins which falls during the event. I know this is angering you, you who put so much effort and time into making your camp, your art, your event happen but it has come time to make a change for the people, to really make that principle a reality, RADICALLY INCLUDE all those who want to participate. We should think of ways to make it possible since the past few years it is become more and more unlikely, with odds becoming more and more unfavorable. And I refuse to hear its always going to be a week. 20 years from now it won't be a week of 70,000.

So what I'm saying is many burns of 70,000 or whatever the limit is that take place at the epicenter. One at the beginning of each month. Burners!

[BBadger]

Does it really need to be said that hosting "regionals" on the playa wouldn't make them "regional" anymore? Plus, if people wanted to attend a regional-sized event they could just go to, um, regionals.

And burns 20 years ago? No thanks. Weren't they burning couches back then? Weren't there more hippies? And only 8000 people?

There wasn't even a trash fence back then. Burning Man only became Burning Man after the creation of the trash fence.

Yeah, they didn't complain. They didn't know better. There wasn't any better. Better things were to come. Things people would eventually want to see so bad that the ticket sold out.

Maybe this is really a ploy to decrease demand so that people wouldn't want to buy tickets in the first place. You're proposing a different event that isn't even what people are clamoring over to attend.

It's like people waiting in line for a limited supply of chocolate ice cream, and now you're going to feed more people by offering a larger supply of vanilla ice cream. But people weren't waiting in line for vanilla ice cream, and the line will probably not even be as long as the one that prompted this change. So now nobody gets to experience the chocolate ice cream. Nobody wins.

[Popeye]

What about all the people complaining that 15 years ago we had strawberry and now we have chocolate or choco tacos? I don't expect there will ever be a drive by shooting range again but maybe some of the people who dropped out would come back if there was a smaller, maybe 10,000-20,000 people, burn in BRC?
This will be my fourth year so I don't claim to know anything about the smaller years. BUT it was stories about those early years that got me interested enough that I showed up in '13. Maybe it's stories about the last few years- pnp, silicone valley, RV walls, etc. that are causing old burners to drop out?

[Captain Goddammit]

.... and this is your brain on drugs.

[AntiM]

My first year was the first year they put the Man on a pedestal, I never saw the hay bales or pulled the ropes. 25k people, and yes, they burned couches. The event was not so different, but there were far fewer RVs, no fun videos online that I knew about, and some international burners, but not too many. A lot of barter, and the ten principles didn't even exist then. Attending was a little hush-hush.

I hate how so many new people come here and are panicked they must join a theme camp or rent an RV, just fucking figure it out, it is camping. Too expensive to buy all that gear? Then maybe this isn't the event for you. Life gets in the way? Again, not the event for you. Radically inclusive means different things to different people. To me, I welcome the stranger, but that doesn't mean I want the event diluted to make Ken and Betty Bundt from Minnesota happy. Let them go to Lakes of Fire. Yes, that is different. Yes, I am sad that not everyone can go to TTITD. Am I motivated to make it happen? Hell no. Radical Self-reliance, people, if you can't burn on the playa carry the burn to your area.

Here's a handy timeline with the population, the height and style of the Man.

http://burningman.org/timeline/

[Jackass]

Learning all about Burning Man from the Dr. Seus videos on youtube is a huge part of what started this mess to begin with. Where do you think all these bucketlisting yahoos came from? That's right, they were turned on to BM by some lame-ass youtube videos. Screw your Annas and your Ronnies who were brought here by means of the armchair, "the media" and youtube, I still need tickets and VPs...

If you go visit Ronnie one year and Anna the next then you guys won't be needing any tickets these next couple of years, problem solved.

[misfit]

years ago everyone who attended was a participant, and everyone had a hand in making the event what it was. now we have 65k annas and ronnies coming to the event and asking what can burning man do for me instead of participating. talk to any volunteer coordinator that works all year gathering enough staff to put this show on,,, and tell them you think the event should be extended for you, Ronnie and anna.

[misfit]

just in case you had no idea, volunteer coordinators are volunteers themselves. they work their day jobs and come home and do their volunteer coordinator job. asking them to work harder so you can enjoy more of bm,,, kind'a sucks..........

[vargaso]

I'm sure I'm not alone in not wanting to give more people a chance to go. My main gripe with the BMORG is this messianic idea of "spreading Burning Man culture" by pimping out the event in the media every chance they get. It's the mistaken adolescent equivalent of "Hey, if MORE people like punk rock, the scene will be even better!" We all know how that went. I want LESS people to go. This event is the result of freaky West Coast culture and Western geography, the culture I was born and raised in and have participated in since I was a teenager in the 80s. It's hard for international or out-of-state burners to come? Too bad, start your own thing. AfrikaBurn looks amazing, they did it right. That's about the only regional I've seen that might compare to BRC, but oh well. Does everything have to happen everywhere? Nope. Should we dilute the event so more people can come? Fuck nope. Am I pissed there are as many people attending as do now? Yep. Are fun things more fun when they're relatively exclusive? Yep. I didn't get tickets in the main sale but am connected enough that I'll probably get the two and a VP that I need. Is that how it should be? Yep. Will Burning Man improve or even maintain by more and more first-timers attending? Nope. I'm all for fresh blood but I'm against outreach of any kind. Not that I think this critical mass wouldn't have been reached if BMORG would have just focused on the event. But they ain't helping.

OK, rant over. Nothing new here was typed. Just in a cranky mood.

[dustyfux]

Dear Divine,

I see you are really trying to take a crack at this line of logic. And honestly, within my 7% investment parameters, I get what you're saying. But the words on paper aren't coming across. Like this several weeks of regionals on the playa idea....I live in an area with multiple, mature regional groups. They've never mentioned wanting to do something like that and they playa is only 7 hours away. People are pretty content on a regional = 3 day long weekend and make it local. Who knows, maybe they'll see your post and say [palm to face] "HOLY SHEEPSHIT, WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THAT?"

Now, because I'm high and its April, I'll agree with you - fuck yeah make BM longer. But honestly, after I'm out there for a week I'm ready to go home. I'm fucking blazed, blown out, burnt to the ground, hey feel free to throw in any descriptive you like. But the fact is If I had a "Get into week 2 for Free" pass, I probably wouldn't think twice about leaving after a week.

So that's it for me. My 7% is totally depleted and now all I have to say is: Yeah? Ronnie from Cleveland and Anna from Norway? I fucked them.

[Divinefeminine]

years ago everyone who attended was a participant, and everyone had a hand in making the event what it was. now we have 65k annas and ronnies coming to the event and asking what can burning man do for me instead of participating. talk to any volunteer coordinator that works all year gathering enough staff to put this show on,,, and tell them you think the event should be extended for you, Ronnie and anna.

New Blood, a new crop of inspired Volunteers growing exponentially along with the growing Burns. new and more volunteers, not the people already volunteering year round that need to work harder but New Ones. Annas and Ronnies becoming inspired and doing even more for the Burning Man Community. Making larger projects, art, camps, volunteering year round to make the other burns. Ana and Ronnies looking for YOU and giving YOU even more love on the Playa.

[Dr Helix]

years ago everyone who attended was a participant, and everyone had a hand in making the event what it was. now we have 65k annas and ronnies coming to the event and asking what can burning man do for me instead of participating. talk to any volunteer coordinator that works all year gathering enough staff to put this show on,,, and tell them you think the event should be extended for you, Ronnie and anna.

New Blood, a new crop of inspired Volunteers growing exponentially along with the growing Burns. new and more volunteers, not the people already volunteering year round that need to work harder but New Ones. Annas and Ronnies becoming inspired and doing even more for the Burning Man Community. Making larger projects, art, camps, volunteering year round to make the other burns. Ana and Ronnies looking for YOU and giving YOU even more love on the Playa.

I think the Annas and Ronnies of the world ARE getting to go. Maybe not yours, but others for sure. According to the 2015 Black Rock Census 35.8% of the participants were virgins. In 2014 it was 37% (you can go here to see the numbers:http://burningman.org/culture/history/b ... nsus-data/

So "new blood" would seem to already be a part of Burning Man, or at least it was in the last two years. I didn't go back any further but I have little doubt they won't deviate much. So to say these additional burns will bring much needed inspiration would suggest that the event is stagnant with the same people going every year. The numbers just don't bear that out.

[misfit]

>>>>According to the 2015 Black Rock Census 35.8% of the participants were virgins.<<<<

I don't doubt your numbers, but your use of participants is wrong. yes there was an increase in virgin attendees, but only a small fraction of that number actually volunteered to work for the man. most came, sucked up resources, and left never to return. not that its a bad thing or wrong, just in my eyes and a few real participants that feel,,, bucket listers SUCK.
everyone has a rite to enjoy burningman, I just don't see extending the event to a 2nd week is a great idea or even logistically possible with our current staff numbers. I do see your POV, and feel this sort of communication is needed to keep the event fresh and open to all that want to go...

[Dr Helix]

>>>>According to the 2015 Black Rock Census 35.8% of the participants were virgins.<<<<

I don't doubt your numbers, but your use of participants is wrong. yes there was an increase in virgin attendees, but only a small fraction of that number actually volunteered to work for the man. most came, sucked up resources, and left never to return. not that its a bad thing or wrong, just in my eyes and a few real participants that feel,,, bucket listers SUCK.
everyone has a rite to enjoy burningman, I just don't see extending the event to a 2nd week is a great idea or even logistically possible with our current staff numbers. I do see your POV, and feel this sort of communication is needed to keep the event fresh and open to all that want to go...

My apologies. I did not intend to imply that these people contributed in any way. These were just raw numbers showing that there are new people to BM each year. What they did I have no idea.

[Lonesomebri]

Hmmmph..... I'm still waiting for them to build the inclusive gondola ride down into the Grand Canyon. Otherwise, think of all the people not able to hike in or ride a mule.

Tell your buddies to just make their own Dr. Seuss video, done and done, since that has so very very very little to do with the Burn.

...and think, maybe some others will be inspired by your friends Dr Seuss video and come up with a solution, or something, whatever...

[EGAZ]

Getting back on topic, there is a new thread on Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BurningMan/com ... he_ticket/ .

Some interesting ideas...

[Papa Bear]

Sigh. More "the burn needs to be extended/happen multiple times a year to accommodate more newcomers" (who will allegedly put in all the work), and still no real effort at understanding just what goes into making the event happen in terms of planning, logistics and time before, after, and during the event. Nor is there any indication of the OP being willing to step up and do what it takes to be one of the people to make it happen.

Call me jaded, but I'm just completely unimpressed by the "somebody else should put in the effort and do this for me" argument, even when it's couched as "somebody else should put in the effort and do it for my friends Ronnie and Anna".

That said, Divinefeminine, if you are actually willing to put in the time to plan and execute one of these new regional-ish events you're proposing -- whether or not it happens somewhere in the Black Rock Desert, and no matter whether it can handle 70,000 or just 70 -- more power to you. If you feel like you need more experience first to be successful, there are any number of regional events that already exist out there that are in need of volunteers who will help do the hard work to make their events happen, and would be happy to help you gain that experience.

[theCryptofishist]

According to the 2015 Black Rock Census 35.8% of the participants were virgins. In 2014 it was 37% (you can go here to see the numbers:http://burningman.org/culture/history/b ... nsus-data/

I'm not going to look through the census or through old posts with ticketing solutions, but as I remember, that's about right. 30 to 40 percent of participants every year are new to the event. And another 20 percent have been less than four times and are complaining about people who have been there less, and about those who have been there longer.

I'm so tempted to add in "people suck" but whatever.

[Papa Bear]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the "first timer" numbers have been in the 35% and higher range for many years (including my first in '03).

[ranger magnum]

This whole topic reminds me of the "I wanna bike to the burn. Fuck safety, it's all about meeeee!"

[EspressoDude]

another idea: come to the playa in July, set up your camp outside the exclusion zone and party for months. No ticket required. No vehicle pass required. You will still hear all the sounds from the 70 - 100 thousand watt audio systems