Main Sale

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trilobyte
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Re: Main Sale

Post by trilobyte » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:46 am

Very well said, Simon.

The people who think of Burning Man as just another party or festival... they're welcome to quit at any time, the next cool party's tickets will be on sale soon.

Burning Man is a weird and freaky thing. Even in these last few years of ticket scarcity, getting a ticket is the easy part. It's a campout in a high elevation desert, figuring out all the logistics and planning for everything and pulling it all together is a lot of work... and is hard. But if you're really determined, you can probably make it work. Perseverance pays off.

Stay tuned, we'll be opening up the ticket boards in the near future. When they do, post a thread and then watch the 'offered' section closely. And participate! Don't do the non-commital thing where you don't start planning in ernest until after you score a ticket. Do like many long-time veterans do, start planning stuff and figuring out the stuff you need to figure out in advance. Reply to threads and post here to get connected with this fun community, and if possible connect with your local regional group. Be vigilant.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:48 am

an oldie, but so goodie...

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Re: Main Sale

Post by vargaso » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:26 am

trilobyte wrote:
Burning Man is a weird and freaky thing. Even in these last few years of ticket scarcity, getting a ticket is the easy part.
I would disagree with that statement. Ticket procurement has been the biggest pain in the ass for me with regards to the event. I don't blame anything other than supply and demand. But I think playing down the ticket getting process isn't helpful. The work that goes in to planning and building a camp doesn't seem as fraught or anxiety-ridden as getting a ticket. For me. And I've always managed to get one the years I had planned to go, so I'm not saying this out of bitterness. And yeah, I didn't get one yesterday, and I'm confident I'll get the tickets and vehicle pass I need, but still...

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Re: Main Sale

Post by melomel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:02 am

vargaso wrote:
I would disagree with that statement. Ticket procurement has been the biggest pain in the ass for me with regards to the event. I don't blame anything other than supply and demand. But I think playing down the ticket getting process isn't helpful. The work that goes in to planning and building a camp doesn't seem as fraught or anxiety-ridden as getting a ticket. For me. And I've always managed to get one the years I had planned to go, so I'm not saying this out of bitterness. And yeah, I didn't get one yesterday, and I'm confident I'll get the tickets and vehicle pass I need, but still...
I'm with you. I get the radical self reliance thing. Hell, I seem to be much more of an introverted loner than most given what people assume my social connections should be vs. what they really seem to be, even after going to Burning Man multiple times, which I suppose might mean that I'm flexing my self reliance. When people have to spend a bunch of time searching for tickets, that is time that cannot be spent on other projects. That's a cold hard fact. Continually minimizing the problems people, people that really are willing to go and participate even if they aren't part of a specific camp, are having is not helping Burning Man in the long term. By minimizing this and not taking steps to seriously revamp the ticketing process, this is just going to keep getting worse. I think many of us know Burning Man isn't just about that one week, but when you're lacking a critical key to open the front door, it's hard to spend all your time planning for the interior decor inside the building you can't even get assure you can get in.

Just from my own experience, it seems like there's still a decent amount of tickets being slurped up for scalping type purposes as well.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Ratty » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:10 am

Everyone that is unhappy with the ticketing process should email their suggestions to 'ticketing'. This board is frequented by regular burners but we really don't have any control over the Org. Even the Mods and Trillo are only camps that jump through the same hoops as everyone else. Ticketing would welcome your input, (if it's not grousing about how unlucky you were yesterday.) They implement new procedures every year. Tell them how it could be improved. We are all entitled to our opinions.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by EspressoDude » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:13 am

Reading about the waiting room issues sounds a lot like arriving at the gate too early. Getting shuttled off to D lot, then back into the entry line when there is a gap in the line ( 4 hours to 2 days later )
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Ratty » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:15 am

That could be what happened. I'm afraid we'll never know.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by vargaso » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:56 am

melomel wrote: By minimizing this and not taking steps to seriously revamp the ticketing process, this is just going to keep getting worse.
That's the thing, what would you have them do? No matter the setup, tickets will sell out in under an hour. As explained a few times earlier in this thread, "true" first-come/first-served when the demand is this high is a misnomer; when tens of people are hitting the servers at literally the same millisecond, it's moot, in fact. So what would you solution be? Whatever you come up with, you can trust me that it's already been dissected over and over both here on eplaya and by the BMORG. The only thing that would reduce scalping, yet not increase your chances at getting a ticket, and in fact would probably decrease individual chances, would be to tie an ID to a ticket. Look that one up in the search bar here, and you'll see countless pros and cons on that one.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Skuzzy61 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:05 am

Ratty wrote:Everyone that is unhappy with the ticketing process should email their suggestions to 'ticketing'. This board is frequented by regular burners but we really don't have any control over the Org. Even the Mods and Trillo are only camps that jump through the same hoops as everyone else. Ticketing would welcome your input, (if it's not grousing about how unlucky you were yesterday.) They implement new procedures every year. Tell them how it could be improved. We are all entitled to our opinions.
Thank you for the heads-up Ratty. I sent in my suggestion, with more details. Can't hurt.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by JassenB » Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:14 pm

Just to stir the pot with another anecdotal story...

My strategy for this year was based on my frustration in 2015 of not being able to get tickets in any of the sales (and in 2014, I had to pay almost a grand per ticket to go - also frustrating). So, for this year I used the anecdotal "lessons learned" from ePlaya posters last year, where queue-jumping was also apparently possible.

On Tuesday, I made sure that I could login to TicketFly, and also updated my address to make checkout as fast as possible.

Knowing that I would be sitting in my car on a ferry about to dock in Seattle at the time the main sale opened, I logged into TicketFly account on my iPhone at about 11:30, to ensure I was logged in and cookied. I did this via ticketfly.com directly, not the personalized link. I then ignored everything about the "waiting room", based on data points from last year. I even waited for a bit, instead of jumping in at 12:05. At 12:06 on the dot, I followed the personalized link from the email.

Straight to the head of the line. No wait of any sort, no green man. Straight into the order page. Two tix and a vehicle pass, paste cc number, bam, done. Drove off the ferry at 12:09. This was even easier than my first two times in 2009 and 2011.

The funny thing is that I'm probably not even going this year, and there is an 80% chance that these tix will end up in STEP.

All I know is that I will never again try following the suggested procedure from BMorg.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by torrey.smith » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:05 pm

This brings up one of the interesting ideas that has been floated:

1 ticket per person.

Period, end of story.

It carries all sorts of issues, but doubling the number of available slots for people while serving asa powerful deterrent against ticket hoarding and scalping is potentially compelling.

I would also love to see some kind of verification system on Burner Profiles that did a better job of warding off scalpers and bots.

I'm not trying to say it's perfect, but it's a very interesting idea.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by wraith » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:10 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:thats the spirit.

never

ever

ever

give

up.



i have bought tickets a day before the event.

i have bought tickets way beforehand.

all kinds of crazy obstacles have been overcome as well as periods of smooth sailing, and everything in between.

plan all you like, but shit happens....it ALWAYS happens....especially on the way to, or coming from or while at Burning Man.

this is a fucking adventure, it really is....it's like Indiana Jones on mushrooms.

it's really a state of mind, and in this state of mind, you can do anything, and deal with anything...

The Playasphere™ extends past the confines of black rock and exists inside of you.

you are dust.

be the dust.








also, don't forget to buy indian tacos on the way in, they are delicious.
I think we've had this discussion before. I'm glad you're in a position that you can last minute all your plans and get to the desert. For a lot of us, that's not really an option. The whole radical self-sufficiency concept requires some planning to do well, and when you've got a couple thousand miles between you and the playa, that planning needs lead time. Just taking off the week before and hoping to have a ticket by the time you hit Reno isn't exactly an option.

On the plus side, that's what the regionals are for.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by ACfromSAC » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:13 pm

torrey.smith wrote:This brings up one of the interesting ideas that has been floated:

1 ticket per person.

Period, end of story.

It carries all sorts of issues, but doubling the number of available slots for people while serving asa powerful deterrent against ticket hoarding and scalping is potentially compelling.

I would also love to see some kind of verification system on Burner Profiles that did a better job of warding off scalpers and bots.

I'm not trying to say it's perfect, but it's a very interesting idea.
This is not a democracy, but I vote yes.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by DustyCrevasse » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:15 pm

SO here’s the thing. Assuming it worked as they said:
"when the sale opens, everyone in the 20-minute waiting room will be assigned a place in line that is not related to when they entered the sale. Anyone who joins after 20 minutes will be placed in line after those already in the queue."
Assuming there were more people in the waiting room than their were tickets available then nobody who was NOT in the waiting room should have gotten a ticket at all. If there were fewer people in the waiting room then their were ticket available then everyone in the waiting room should have gotten tickets.

The methodology certainly did no match the description as there are MANY instances of people getting tickets that were not in the waiting room AND there are MANY instances of people that were in the waiting room not getting tickets.

I know of 12 waiting room attendees. None got tickets. I know of 2 people that got tickets that were NOT in the waiting room (came after 12:05).

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Re: Main Sale

Post by melomel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:23 pm

vargaso wrote: The only thing that would reduce scalping, yet not increase your chances at getting a ticket, and in fact would probably decrease individual chances, would be to tie an ID to a ticket. Look that one up in the search bar here, and you'll see countless pros and cons on that one.

The fact is that people are selling tickets for $1000 or more on places like Craigslist and it sometimes involves jumping through hoops and leap of faith that the person actually has a real ticket in exchange. I was connected with a friend of a friend last year and despite this vetting, they were still super paranoid that I was just trying to screw them over when trying to sell them my extra ticket. Why? Because it happened to them before. When the process for splitting a Will Call order into multiple orders was added shortly before the event, this became a huge source of comfort for the person I was trying to help out who was still unsure if I had sold my extra ticket at Will Call to 4 other people. It might suck and it might change the event, but as the event has grown and the culture is not as well ingrained in all people seeking tickets, there are more people looking to take advantage of the situation. Sometimes that means showing up on the playa expecting all food and shelter to be provided by other camps. Sometimes it means leaving giant piles of garbage on the playa. Sometimes it means buying tickets solely for the purpose of selling those tickets way above face value or never delivering on the ticket you're "reselling".
Last edited by melomel on Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by AntiM » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:41 pm

torrey.smith wrote:This brings up one of the interesting ideas that has been floated:

1 ticket per person.

Period, end of story.
MyLarry would never, ever get a ticket then. Plenty of couples attend and would not find the single ticket option appealing.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Timezone LaFontaine » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:43 pm

AntiM wrote:
torrey.smith wrote:This brings up one of the interesting ideas that has been floated:

1 ticket per person.

Period, end of story.
MyLarry would never, ever get a ticket then. Plenty of couples attend and would not find the single ticket option appealing.
But then we could advise them to email support, and utilize STEP and OMG. :P
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:55 pm

Two tickets per purchase is fine. Everyone I know goes with someone.
One per purchase would double the load on the system. I don't see what anyone would gain.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Token » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:07 pm

DustyCrevasse wrote:Assuming there were more people in the waiting room than their were tickets available then nobody who was NOT in the waiting room should have gotten a ticket at all. If there were fewer people in the waiting room then their were ticket available then everyone in the waiting room should have gotten tickets.

The methodology certainly did no match the description
Now this is a well-though-out bit of critical thinking, spelling and grammatical issues aside.

In other words, the BORG done gone fucked it all up, all over again.

At least there is predictability and continuity with the incompetence.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:13 pm

The whole radical self-sufficiency concept requires some planning to do well, and when you've got a couple thousand miles between you and the playa, that planning needs lead time. Just taking off the week before and hoping to have a ticket by the time you hit Reno isn't exactly an option.

i live 2880 miles from the site.

your point is invalid.

please try again.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Timezone LaFontaine » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:14 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:Two tickets per purchase is fine. Everyone I know goes with someone.
One per purchase would double the load on the system. I don't see what anyone would gain.
Will somebody please think of the load on the system?! :lol:

It's good that it works out for couples. I assume you don't know any single attendees who buy an extra ticket just in case a friend needs one. Or anyone who already has a ticket who joins the main sale to pick up a couple more for the same contingencies. Not that any villages would advise their members of such techniques. If the system is going to be gamed, shouldn't it be a pain in the ass all around?
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Eric » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:35 pm

melomel wrote:The fact is that people are selling tickets for $1000 or more on places like Craigslist
That is not a fact.
That is far from a fact - the fact is that people are LISTING tickets for sale at $1,000+ on various sites. NO-ONE has a physical ticket to sale. Not Larry Harvey, not God, not some scalper on the web. If people are stupid enough to buy a ticket that doesn't exist because they're in panic mode, well ... it's not like we don't warn them (it's also a reason we hammer "Don't pay more than face value" over and over and over - people are going to get screwed out of their hard earned money. It happens every year).

Most of the sites where you see "tickets" for sale people are doing it on spec - just look at the dates they promise delivery. It's usually the day Gate opens or close to it, which means the scalper will hunt for a ticket at cost in the aftermarket and then turn around & sell it to whatever sucker freaked out & offered $1000+ for it. If they don't find one they just cancel the "sale", since there's little to no penalty for doing so.


Take deep breaths. Nobody has a physical ticket to sell yet, and they won't until sometime around July. Every "sale" you see now is a scam.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by melomel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:53 pm

Eric wrote:
That is not a fact.


This has happened in past years. I know because I know of people that panic purchased tickets this way because they were not able to secure them through other vetted means and despite me poo-pooing it, they wanted the ticket and so they paid.

Also if you even just read in this thread, people have admitted to purchasing tickets for way more than they wanted to spend. That does not scream "face value" to me.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by vargaso » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:03 pm

melomel wrote:
vargaso wrote: The only thing that would reduce scalping, yet not increase your chances at getting a ticket, and in fact would probably decrease individual chances, would be to tie an ID to a ticket. Look that one up in the search bar here, and you'll see countless pros and cons on that one.

The fact is that people are selling tickets for $1000 or more on places like Craigslist and it sometimes involves jumping through hoops and leap of faith that the person actually has a real ticket in exchange. I was connected with a friend of a friend last year and despite this vetting, they were still super paranoid that I was just trying to screw them over when trying to sell them my extra ticket. Why? Because it happened to them before. When the process for splitting a Will Call order into multiple orders was added shortly before the event, this became a huge source of comfort for the person I was trying to help out who was still unsure if I had sold my extra ticket at Will Call to 4 other people. It might suck and it might change the event, but as the event has grown and the culture is not as well ingrained in all people seeking tickets, there are more people looking to take advantage of the situation. Sometimes that means showing up on the playa expecting all food and shelter to be provided by other camps. Sometimes it means leaving giant piles of garbage on the playa. Sometimes it means buying tickets solely for the purpose of selling those tickets way above face value or never delivering on the ticket you're "reselling".
So I think you're saying that your solution to the ticketing issue is to tie an ID with a ticket? OK, I actually agree with that, it's just the first time I've heard you offer a solution. It seems like your main issue, though, is the uncertainty of getting a ticket and the problems that causes for planning and building. As stated earlier, tying IDs with tickets would actually DECREASE each person's chance of getting one, so I'm not sure how that would help you any.

I do agree with you that tickets have sold for $1000+ in previous years, and will again this year. So if scalping is the issue, then yes, requiring an ID with a ticket would greatly help that. It would not improve the scarcity problem.

Edited to add this: Actually it might help with scarcity in that straight up scalpers, those that never intended to attend the event in the first place, would be discouraged.
Last edited by vargaso on Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by vargaso » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:03 pm

Token wrote:
DustyCrevasse wrote:Assuming there were more people in the waiting room than their were tickets available then nobody who was NOT in the waiting room should have gotten a ticket at all. If there were fewer people in the waiting room then their were ticket available then everyone in the waiting room should have gotten tickets.

The methodology certainly did no match the description
Now this is a well-though-out bit of critical thinking, spelling and grammatical issues aside.

In other words, the BORG done gone fucked it all up, all over again.

At least there is predictability and continuity with the incompetence.
Yep, sure seems like it. Sigh.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Lip Bomb » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:25 pm

Sadly we ended up with a grand total of 2 tickets and 0 VP's out of 40 campers. It was not kind to Lip Bomb this year. Everyone was in the waiting room and we got so very little as far as tickets are concerned. Aside from the officers of the camp (DGS) the other 40 get 2 tickets. We may end up with a very small camp or no camp at all. I like to think that it will work out in the end its just a really bad go for us this year.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by 666isMONEY » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:31 pm

Read all the posts in this thread and still don't know what happened.

Seems like a lot of people who logged in early went into a waiting room and very few got tickets but those who logged in at 12:05 or 12:06 got tickets. What about those who logged in 12:00-12:05?

Looks like it sold out in half-hour?

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Re: Main Sale

Post by vox_art » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:43 pm

I guess the current system is built like a lottery, from the huge pool of candidates (which has been filled up to 12:04:59) server randomly builds a queue at 12:05:00 and finally these candidates suppose to get into the purchase page waiting in the line.
The logic which serves as "random candidates builder" may be not a "true random" logic and takes into account previous purchase activities of particular user.

The cases when user clicking on the link after 12:05 gets right into the purchase page can be treated as server response failures due to huge overload. I hope this issue will be fixed next year.

I got ticket last year, but nothing in this year, however followed same procedures and waiting in the queue in advance. Many people followed BMorg procedures and did not get a ticket.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by wraith » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:37 pm

vargaso wrote:Edited to add this: Actually it might help with scarcity in that straight up scalpers, those that never intended to attend the event in the first place, would be discouraged.
Scalping is an issue. The root cause is simply scarcity. The playa, due to both physical constraints road-wise and the BLM contract, has a maximum capacity lower than demand. Heck, we've already seen someone in this thread note that they don't expect to be able to go, but scored tickets on the just in case with the assumption that they can just flip them before the event due to scarcity.

That, I'd say, would be an issue (like scalping) that would be resolved by simply making tickets 100% non-transferable except signficantly below face value, albeit resold at face value through STEP. Shit happens, I know, but at the same time there are enough people dedicated to wanting to go who can't get tickets right now that hoarding and scalping both are something we should consider unacceptable behavior.
Simon of the Playa wrote: i live 2880 miles from the site.

your point is invalid.

please try again.
Again, I am completely unsarcastically glad you're in position to take advantage of opportunities on short notice. That isn't true for everyone.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by Jenifersteppat » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:13 pm

"That, I'd say, would be an issue (like scalping) that would be resolved by simply making tickets 100% non-transferable except signficantly below face value, albeit resold at face value through STEP. Shit happens, I know, but at the same time there are enough people dedicated to wanting to go who can't get tickets right now that hoarding and scalping both are something we should consider"

Admittedly, I haven't read the exhaustive threads on ticketing, but this makes a lot of sense to me.
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