Main Sale

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melomel
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Re: Main Sale

Post by melomel » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:19 pm

wraith wrote:
That, I'd say, would be an issue (like scalping) that would be resolved by simply making tickets 100% non-transferable except signficantly below face value, albeit resold at face value through STEP. Shit happens, I know, but at the same time there are enough people dedicated to wanting to go who can't get tickets right now that hoarding and scalping both are something we should consider unacceptable behavior.
That's a really good idea wraith! It would allow people to keep within the spirit of why people don't like some of the previously suggested options (inabilities to gift & things change being 2 big ones) while still controlling some of the unwanted behaviors.

I was honestly a little surprised at the problems I had trying to get rid of my extra ticket last year (STEP was already closed) because of the paranoia and eroded trust. Fake tickets, over face value tickets and money exchange without any real tickets are all real issues that come up when trying to find/get rid of tickets. This is known on some level because info is published by the org about how to spot a real ticket, lists of cancelled tickets and advice on how to exchange money safely & not to pay over face value, but even with fairly close connections people are having to question these things now. Maybe this is a desired behavior/the org wants to be out of it as much as possible. I don't know.

I do think there could still be potential for people to "fake" having a ticket and selling it below face value (what a deal! $300 for you!), but maybe this is the random selling to people you have no connection to (outside of STEP) might need to be cut out.

Tying IDs or ID-like information (I think someone suggested a photo or something like that that you provide that helps someone identify you & is a unique set of info... ) to tickets sucks on some levels, but it would help with some problems with trust & it has been done before. I'm not sure what can be done about trying to handle as much of this as possible before getting to the event to keep the inflow moving, but it's something to keep in mind.

Supply is less than demand as 2011 first showed us, but some of this extra crap going on distorts the picture on how much less the supply really is than demand. I'm pretty sure we know people over-register for the sale/over purchase based on the types of stories that end up coming out. There are people that don't get to go each year that would otherwise be able to go if they had a ticket. How many is that? Are we 5% under desired capacity? 20%? 100%? Does anyone have any real idea?

wraith
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Re: Main Sale

Post by wraith » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:36 pm

That's a good question, and I'd think the Org would have some idea based on number of tickets sold vs tickets redeemed at the Gate. I know the goal would be ~99%+ redeemed, with a few going unused due to last minute trouble, but I am curious if they presently break the data down with that level of detail, or track it at all beyond number of heads in for BLM monitoring.

My main goal with the idea of capping exchanges to STEP is to make holding tickets one is not going to use have a definite cost rather than a profit opportunity. Maybe make it slightly less draconic and let a specific number of tickets be set aside to be purchased as 'giftable' tickets much like this year's Leo tickets, with an increased price that directly goes to fund the low income program. Same with the funds gained through STEP, as the tickets would be 'bought back' at say $200, and then resold at face value.

DoctorIknow
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Re: Main Sale

Post by DoctorIknow » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:34 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote: .....you did not get your ticket yet, SO FUCKING WHAT....seriously, in the grand scheme of things if that is putting your knickers in a goddamn twist, i really feel sorry for you.....because that's fucking pathetic.
......quit bitching, and do something about it....whether it's the other ticket sales or waiting til the last day because someone's cat died and now they can't go, it does not matter.
......get into the mindset now, and go out there and do it, goddammit, and be thankful you are still breathing and above ground for fuck's sake.


Many posts in this thread confirm that long time burners do not disagree with Simon.

Those words from the wise MIGHT be helpful to those going thru the 5 stages of loss/grief (one aspect being blaming the ticket system for failing you) and during the time of self-exam, help one establish if BM is worth the effort or if one should spend the incredible suck of time and money involved in getting there/being self-sufficient vs. a change of plans for the end of August beginning of September.

For those uncertain if they have the capacity to adopt a zen-like mind to commit WITHOUT having a ticket , I would ask you what happens to your brain and bodily stress levels when you are have boarded an airplane and you are bumped even though you’ve had your valid reservation and seat assignment for weeks. Or you get a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign, even though you are convinced you stopped? Or your computer loses all your projects you’ve worked on, with no backup?

If these kind of things result in getting “your knickers in a goddamn twist,” well, they are NOTHING compared the black hole of knickertwist that can happen any time or on any path taken to the event, or at the event.

BTW: The only difference between great distance to travel vs. living close is time and money, both of which are independent of the experience of BM. In fact, if you even think about the value of time and money as being an element of your decision to commit, you are not starting on the right foot.

“You cannot swim for new horizons until you have courage to lose sight of the shore.”
― William Faulkner

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:27 am

DoctorIKnow wrote:if you even think about the value of time and money as being an element of your decision to commit, you are not starting on the right foot
I don't agree with that, unless you mean a person shouldn't bother with BM unless they are so comfortably wealthy that the cost of this party is an insignificant drop in the bucket. Which is probably wise.
For most of us, it's a HUGE chunk of our disposable income. I think it's irresponsible to not even consider the amount of money you spend vs. what you get out of it and the likelihood of wasting it all.

The big difference between living within reasonable driving distance to BRC and flying distance is the ability to bring a truck & trailer full of everything vs. having almost no ability to carry resources. Living closer also means it's a whole lot less loss of time and money if it doesn't work out at the last minute. It's a really huge difference. I wouldn't go to BM at all if I had to fly in, and there's no way in hell I'd plan an international trip without knowing if I could even get in.
This isn't the coming of Christ. It's just a party. Money does matter to most of us, when it's this much of it.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

DoctorIknow
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Re: Main Sale

Post by DoctorIknow » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:35 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
DoctorIKnow wrote:if you even think about the value of time and money as being an element of your decision to commit, you are not starting on the right foot
.....This isn't the coming of Christ. It's just a party. Money does matter to most of us, when it's this much of it.

I don't disagree at all, Captain....of course time/money/logistics aspect is a huge big deal for so many of us.

I maybe buried the meat of my post trying to expand on Simon's more direct advise to those getting twisted knickers 'cause of not getting a ticket.

I was, perhaps poorly, making a distinction between these two approaches to the time/money issue:

1-----I have this much money and this much time, and therefore I can begin to do whatever I have to do to get to Burning Man.
verses
2----I MUST to go to Burning Man, this year. How can I make that happen?

Like you, Capt., I would not go if it required air travel and attendant headaches.

If I was a 1%er and could jet in and have an infrastructure all set up for me, maybe I'd go just to see what it would be like not to be self-sufficient, but one of the most fun parts of the entire exercise of going ends the minute I pull out of the driveway to get there and I'm totally (so far!) Alpha White-Out Armageddon ready for "just a party," which for sure isn't the coming of Christ, speaking of which:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... g-man.html
Last edited by DoctorIknow on Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:51 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:46 am

this has nothing to do with money.

this has to do with desire.

how badly do you want it?

i have hitch hiked to the burn with saddlebags over my shoulders because my motorcycle broke down half way across country.

i have flown in....there were weather issues with that too.

i have taken a bus there, and back 3000fucking miles due to ride flakage at the last minute.

all of those times and others, i have let my desire and radical self reliance guide meon my way.

i have always made it, withsome very close calls, but you know what? thats life.

i wouldnt have it any other way.

open up your third nostril and smell the fucking dust.


ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:26 am

But Simon all your examples involve transportation issues which are far easier and more likely to be overcome than lack of tickets in today's BM situation.
I think money's got everything to do with it when you're in some other country and you have non-refundable airline flights and all sorts of expensive other logistics that have to be prearranged, with only a longshot chance of even getting in.
I've had major catastrophes happen on the way too. In 2008 I had a total engine/trans failure that left me on a mountain pass with a heavy trailer, and I managed to overcome that and still arrived by Monday night.
I've had other problems on the way that would have stopped a lot of people.
But I had tickets. That's the difference. All you or I had to do was get there.
No ticket, still doesn't matter if you get there or not. All the years-past experiences of obtaining tickets just because you kept at it don't apply today in linear fashion, the odds keep shrinking.

Just sayin', it's a lot tougher these days to commit bigger and bigger $$ to a smaller and smaller opportunity.
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pixeltrance
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Re: Main Sale

Post by pixeltrance » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:31 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:i have hitch hiked to the burn with saddlebags over my shoulders because my motorcycle broke down half way across country.
Now I have to admit that I haven't seen your saddlebags but there is NO FUCKING WAY (to use one of your seemingly favorite words) that you brought everything that you need in those bags. Clothes, food, drinks, tent, sleeping bag, shade structure, etc.

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AntiM
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Re: Main Sale

Post by AntiM » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:55 am

You obviously don't know Simon. Clothes? He was wearing them. Tent? A sleeping bag suffices if you are one with the dust. Drink? A canteen to melt ice in will do. Food? Pack of Camels and social capital. He has a list as long as his arm of folks who'd share bacon with the man. I do mean a literal list as long as his arm. Seen it. On it.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by pixeltrance » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:03 am

AntiM wrote:You obviously don't know Simon. Clothes? He was wearing them. Tent? A sleeping bag suffices if you are one with the dust. Drink? A canteen to melt ice in will do. Food? Pack of Camels and social capital. He has a list as long as his arm of folks who'd share bacon with the man. I do mean a literal list as long as his arm. Seen it. On it.
Ahhhhh...so much for "self-reliance". Travel light and make sure other people bring the stuff you need. Gotcha.

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Lykke_Komorebi
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Lykke_Komorebi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:45 am

I have some heartbreak over abiding by the rules and thinking that radical self-reliance might mean staying informed and aware of ticketing instructions and suggestions, then realizing that radical self-reliance in this case meant saying f :evil: ck you to the instructions and reloading pages/ not trapping oneself in the waiting room. It seems interesting and disappointing that the concept of radical self-reliance in this case philosophically departs from self-reliance and preparedness while upholding ideals of the community (ie instructions) that I hoped for, and instead is a narcissistic everyone for themselves at the expense of others self-reliance in which community instructions are red herrings and references for "be self-reliant, go to the ticketing information page" are just lures for the people who hold community and trust on par with their individual self-reliance. What really bothers me is the sense that the self-reliance espoused may be more of an every man for himself self-reliance rather than the ideal I hold myself to. My ideal is being prepared for eventualities and able to take care of myself alone but making the choice to participate in a community of others who also can go it solo, but choose not to, because the idea and actuality of community and shared bonds and experience are so much more beautiful and wonderful than if we were adversaries.

Sorry for this possibly incoherent and bitter rant, but maybe what I'm feeling makes sense to someone.

I'm excited to explore STEP and hope for tickets offered to get me to the event. I am also very cheered by some of the posts on this thread (especially the Star Wars burning man state of mind pic)! Thanks for helping me out of my gloomy slump of ticketlesness!
"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:12 am

pixeltrance wrote:
AntiM wrote:You obviously don't know Simon. Clothes? He was wearing them. Tent? A sleeping bag suffices if you are one with the dust. Drink? A canteen to melt ice in will do. Food? Pack of Camels and social capital. He has a list as long as his arm of folks who'd share bacon with the man. I do mean a literal list as long as his arm. Seen it. On it.
Ahhhhh...so much for "self-reliance". Travel light and make sure other people bring the stuff you need. Gotcha.



you.have.no.clue.

come talk to me when you've done your own dentistry.

seriously.
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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:38 am

Some people have earned a lot of friends on the playa over 20 years. Others haven't.
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Dr Helix » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:50 am

Every year since 2011: Tickets. Not enough. Sale. Unfair. Upset people? Legion. Answers? They got 'em in spades. Results? Not much. Rinse and repeat. And Simon? If you're short something outthere, I'd be happy to help. You've got plenty of Social capital with me just from all the work you've done here.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:02 am

now that i've done a tasty bong hit and calmed down, i'll respond with some aplomb.


i'm kinda hungry now, but that can wait.


i have carried, and have been carried.

i have been totally self sufficient, and i have also worked on large scale projects where everything was provided.....as far as food, water and tipi was concerned.....i was also working 15-20 hour days building shit for others to have fun at....that was our gift, and i actually get turned on by large amounts of scaffolding and heavy equipment but i'm weird that way, i guess.

many people do not transport "all they need" with them but they are still radically self reliant...

the dpw eat the commissary. how about them?

the Gate People drink water that they did not bring in. How about them?

how about the people who build the city and provide infrastructure so you can shake your groove thing in a fucking fringe corset, are they too, somehow less than radically self reliant?

fuck that noise.

"community" also runs hand in hand with Radical Self Reliance.....i know, it's a fucking paradox....deal with it.

Goathead will attest to me showing up at the gate without a ticket, and how even then, the dust did not let me down, because i believe.

yeah, i said it.

i believe in the power of dust to make even an ordinary dumb schmuck like myself rise to extraordinary levels of Humanness..

the drive and passion and the overwhelming sense of knowing that THIS IS NOT A GODAMN VACATION, IN FACT, IT'S A TRIP OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE, and that this is much much more than a "festival". The Feeling of unbridled creativity a clean slate / playa provides, the tabla rasu of life that exists in the wasteland is fucking IMPORTANT, otherwise we wouldnt be sitting here on a goddamn message board arguing about it.

50 years from now, you will tell your youngin's and yer youngin's youngins "you were there" because, you were apart of something, as well as being so true to yourself as an individual.

you shared a community. you shared your true self when you became who you are in the emptiness and the fullness that is burning man.

no man is an island... that is not what radical self reliant is about...it's about making your way, no matter what, because quite frankly, you really don't have a choice now do you.

how you deal with pleasure and pain, shit storm, sun and rain, and everything in between is really up to you, and that my fellow fire friends, is radical.
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Token
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Token » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:24 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:this has nothing to do with money.

this has to do with desire.

how badly do you want it?

i have hitch hiked to the burn with saddlebags over my shoulders because my motorcycle broke down half way across country.

i have flown in....there were weather issues with that too.

i have taken a bus there, and back 3000fucking miles due to ride flakage at the last minute.

... snip ...
Simon is spot on, but I gotta admit, the kind of personality (or string of certifiable DSM disorders) required to for such epic displays of "balls of steel" is often out of reach for mere mortals.

Should the world measure up to Rochester Cocaine Cowboy, he would be a God among insects!

Lets not forget the gen-gap. We have generations of new burners who have won a trophy just for showing up, all their lives. They are all winners!

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Main Sale

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:30 am

i have a lot of sweat equity and time into the project.

i have worked my ass off to become Mythical.

it's not easy, you can't 3-d print legends.

epic does not grow on trees, and you cant get venture capital for Don Quixote now matter how hard sancho works it.

kids these days, indeed.

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Re: Main Sale

Post by trilobyte » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:49 am

While some excellent points have been made, the purpose of this thread is for people to post their results from the main sale, and others to either congratulate those who were successful or console those who were not.

We have not had anyone posting results since yesterday, I think it's time to stick a fork in this thread and call it done.

Once again, congratulations to all those who were successful! To those who weren't able to get what they needed, I'm sorry to hear it. There is, of course, STEP opening up next month and the OMG sale later in the summer.

Stay tuned to announcements on ePlaya regarding our ticket boards, which will be opening up in the coming weeks.

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