Vehicle passes do what?

Want to talk about tickets? You've come to the right place.
User avatar
jneilvindy
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:26 pm
Burning Since: 2014
Location: Greenwood, Indiana

Vehicle passes do what?

Post by jneilvindy » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:47 pm

Juggling the census numbers it looks at best as if anywhere between 10k and 20k people are going to be added to burning man if vehicle passes work perfectly in crushing people into as many vehicles as possible short of mandating everyone use the burner bus service.

So a population increase to 90k... while 200k are looking for tickets.

I can't seem to find a way to get vehicle passes to meet the growing needs of burning man demand.

So what is the vehicle pass money doing to help increase burning man attendance?

Is it being saved to widen the highway from 80 west to burning man?

It doesn't really take much thinking to realize increasing to a 4 lane highway immediately adds 2 extra inbound during the first few days and 2 extra outbound lanes for exodus.... so how is this NOT the 100% absolute go-to must happen as soon as possible option?

3 lanes could theoretically triple road capacity and 3x70k anyone....? sure seems to add up to instant ticket demand as it currently stands.

Now the monstrous amount of logistics can handle that sort of increase and the city absorb that many people and still be "burningman" are, I think, way more difficult questions to answer.

Basically is to big just to big?

I just can't seem to find any way of looking at vehicle passes as a money grab right up there with the new entertainment tax unless it's being earmarked for a big big plan since it's very clear to me that vehicle reduction just is not even going to get us a quarter of the way there in making entrance/exit easier.

And how come the real burning man traffic bottleneck is NEVER discussed? Gate? Again it seems pretty straightforward: double current gate size and halve the wait time at least for entrance.

I totally understand they have to search every. single. vehicle. And the reasons why. So why not double gate during the first 2-3 days or whatever amount of time it takes to say get the wait down to under 3 hours.

Maybe all this is being discussed and I'm missing out on it? Anyone have any links or articles explaining the over-arching vehicle pass plan and how it's going to address the 6+ hour wait times during entrance and the 70K population versus the 200k ticket demand?

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:28 pm

Burning Man has nowhere near the budget to widen a highway, the costs are astronomical. That just ain't happening.
More Gate staff might help, but remember, those are all burners who are volunteering. It's hard to just double an all volunteer staff.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
ygmir
Posts: 29378
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:36 pm
Burning Since: 2017
Camp Name: qqqq
Location: nevada county

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by ygmir » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:33 pm

as I understand, the traffic issue with NDOT et al, is exodus, not entry.
IIRC, part of the deal is, if a mass evacuation were necessary, outbound would take far too long.

So, changing Gate, in that sense would not matter.
Add to that, that there are a finite number of volunteers, and the cost and logistics of making Gate wider compound with size.

I may have it wrong, but that's sort of what I remember.
YGMIR

Unabashed Nordic
Pagan

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16893
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by trilobyte » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:54 pm

I'm moving this over to the tickets discussion board, since that's a better fit for discussions about tickets and vehicle passes.

You should look up and volunteer with the gate team. At the very least you'll help the team get the job done, and at the best you or they (or both) could learn a few things along the way.

User avatar
some seeing eye
Posts: 3125
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:06 pm
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Woo
Location: The Oregon

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:39 pm

jneilvindy, it's frustrating!

As others have said, BM is at its location by the approval of the BLM. No one can wish that away.

The BLM takes in concerns by other stakeholders, like the Nevada State Patrol, and bundles them in setting the terms of the permit.

No permit, no event. No satisfying Nevada State Patrol safety no event.

Many send arrows to Larry and Co, but they spend a lot, lot, lot of time insulating burners from this.

Bottom line, the VP system, as imperfect as many-some judge it is what allows the event to exist today and expand after the 2016 permit.
Last edited by some seeing eye on Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

User avatar
fernley1
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:31 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Camp not for Prophets.
Location: Fernley, Nevada, gateway to the Blackrock Desert.

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by fernley1 » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:42 pm

There are lots of problems with the idea of more lanes down 447. One is that over 20 miles of the road is on tribal land and I doubt they would want a 4 lane highway through their small communities.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:13 pm

It's like $2 million per mile to widen a 2-lane road to 4-lanes, so the VP fees would cover about a mile each year -- all out in essentially no-where-land to improve a 1-2 week event.

Maybe they'll try other things like VPs that only allow you to enter/leave on certain days or something. It kind of works out that way anyway as only 1000 cars are permitted to leave per hour. At 28,000 VPs this year, that's over a day of exodus if everyone wished to leave at once.

What an insane place to host an event of this magnitude.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
Sham
Moderator
Posts: 8465
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:10 am
Location: The hidden mythical place.....

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Sham » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:02 am

BBadger wrote:It's like $2 million per mile to widen a 2-lane road to 4-lanes, so the VP fees would cover about a mile each year -- all out in essentially no-where-land to improve a 1-2 week event.

Maybe they'll try other things like VPs that only allow you to enter/leave on certain days or something. It kind of works out that way anyway as only 1000 cars are permitted to leave per hour. At 28,000 VPs this year, that's over a day of exodus if everyone wished to leave at once.

What an insane place to host an event of this magnitude.
While adding lanes is truly not an option, it would be only one extra lane needed and it could be reversed for inbound and outbound traffic.

After the Man burn on Saturday night, there is a steady stream of vehicles heading out to avoid traffic. Then you have the next big rush immediately after the Temple burn, and that continues through the night--into Sunday morning. By Sunday morning, it seems that half the vehicles are gone from the playa, and many camps are completely broken down and gone. Then you have the die-hard groups that want to stay until the very last minute on Tuesday so they can savor every last minute of their dusty pilgrimage.

If the exodus can be spaced out in this type of steady pattern, there seems to be no real issues. I have stopped in Gerlach after waiting in lines to leave and found that vehicles are very sparse on this road (447). When rain was predicted a few years back, people were warned to get off the playa before it hit and that caused some major back-ups.

I guess it was not imagined that this event would grow to this magnitude and moving it closer to a highway or airport would pretty much ruin the whole concept of the remote, harsh nature of the event.

User avatar
MrBeardy
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:29 am
Burning Since: 2011

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by MrBeardy » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:20 am

Less cars more hippie buses

User avatar
A-RockLeFrench
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:03 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: BONERPILLAR
Location: pennsylfuckingvania

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:42 am

Vehicle passes generate a shit-load of revenue that lines the pockets of a bunch of bureaucratic dick-bags while adding an element of fabricated scarcity to an already scarce ticket economy.


That's what they do.



Oh and they also give eplaya something to talk about.. over and over and over again.

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16893
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:44 pm

If that truly were the case, a-rock, there would be no limit to the number of vehicle passes offered.

The vehicle pass whingeing was better last year...

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:07 pm

trilobyte wrote:If that truly were the case, a-rock, there would be no limit to the number of vehicle passes offered.
I have to disagree. (Note: I'm not commenting on whether VPs are a fabricated scheme or not).

It's an entirely different calculus when scarcity is involved. If people know that there is an unlimited supply, they'll have the flexibility to delay purchases until actually needed. It's like the "200k" ticket demand versus actual ticket demand: if everyone expects that they must purchase a ticket at first opportunity regardless of whether it is known the ticket is needed, and also know that demand will always exist for excess tickets, demand will always outstrip supply. The tickets, at any price, will be bought up because there is no disadvantage with having a ticket in hand.

So there is an actual benefit to maintaining scarcity if you want to maximize profits. Profit is maximized when demand is just barely beyond supply -- or a little more to buffer against any perceptions of sufficient supply.

Is this kind of cynicism going on here with VPs? I'm not going to comment, but I'd like to believe not.

I do think that if the only reason for a high VP cost is to prevent excess hoarding that the price of BM tickets should be reduced proportionally. Then there would be no question that VPs are solely a mechanism to reduce traffic.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
trilobyte
Site Admin
Posts: 16893
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:54 pm
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: Eridu Society
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:55 pm

I was talking about the lining of the pockets thing. If the goal was to just rake in extra cash, then why cap the number of vehicle passes? Sell 'em all day long - in 2014 when the program was first launched, there was a cap of something like 35K. Actual vehicle pass sales were in the neighborhood of 32K, but only 27K were actually used coming through the gate. If it was just a cash-grab, they could have left the cap where it was and let people buy 5K passes that didn't get used again.

Instead, they reduced it to the 2014 actuals... and despite plenty of wailing and gnashing of teeth, everything worked out (which shouldn't be too much of a surprise, as the city's population was largely the same). This year, same number of vehicle passes, and same total number of tickets.

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by motskyroonmatick » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:59 pm

If mass exodus is the sticking point for population increase..... How about a second exodus only route to Jungo Road for South bound traffic. Work with the railroad to improve and flag or signal the crossing and get that south bound traffic around the Gerlach choke point. I'm no traffic engineer but I think this makes sense. Spend that VP$$ on local infrastructure that will serve the event and allow the event to continue to grow.
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:26 pm

trilobyte wrote:I was talking about the lining of the pockets thing. If the goal was to just rake in extra cash, then why cap the number of vehicle passes? Sell 'em all day long - in 2014 when the program was first launched, there was a cap of something like 35K. Actual vehicle pass sales were in the neighborhood of 32K, but only 27K were actually used coming through the gate. If it was just a cash-grab, they could have left the cap where it was and let people buy 5K passes that didn't get used again.
The above description only validates what I'm trying to say. In 2014 demand never exceeded supply, and it was assumed at the time that the price of the VPs was to be the main negative incentive to reduce the number of vehicles. Under that assumption and that it would hold in 2015, I had even given people advice to hold off on VP purchases until the last moment.

That ended up being incorrect. In 2015, the VP cap was reduced below the demand by 5000 tickets. While the end situation most likely worked out for most people, the effect on perceived ticket scarcity is the same: now in 2016 the VPs are considered a supply-limited commodity. People are now buying up VPs in exactly the same manner as main-sale tickets irrespective of the 40% price increase.

As for lining pocket, perhaps there is a case for that as well. With the scarcity of VPs established, overriding the effects of price deterrence on hoarding (as in 2014), the price for VPs could be increased substantially without harming demand. We saw that in 2016 that the price of VPs went up 40% over 2015 prices, with no change in either the amount of tickets, the ticket prices, or availability of either.

I would wager that the VP prices could even double and there would be no decrease in demand.

So I really do think that if BMOrg wants to deflect criticism that this VP system is just a money making scheme that they need to reduce the price of BM tickets proportional to the increased VP cost. Then it is clear that people need to be thinking in terms of vehicles entering the event, not just tickets. The BMOrg could even substantially increase the VP price to really make it effective in encouraging carpooling.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
jneilvindy
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 2:26 pm
Burning Since: 2014
Location: Greenwood, Indiana

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by jneilvindy » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:08 pm

Didn't mean to post and run... life got me. Thanks for the great replies!

Everyone pretty well agrees.

1. vehicle passes are at best a straw man argument. Yes they reduce the number of cars but not by any appreciable amount when it comes to dealing with the crushing demands for the need to increase attendance. Especially when weighed against the amount of supplies that have to be brought into burning man for a person to survive for a week, let along come equipped to give back to the society by bringing in extra gifts, food and art.

2. They are one more headache when it comes to preparing for burning man.

3. scalpers love them.

4. one more needless paper/plastic object created that damages the world and is then discarded.

It's just depressing to realize the org is perfectly fine with 6+ hour wait times for entrance :(

User avatar
zorro sings
Posts: 734
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:56 am
Burning Since: 1999
Camp Name: Hostel
Location: 8:30 and C

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by zorro sings » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:23 pm

jneilvindy wrote:
4. one more needless paper/plastic object created that damages the world and is then discarded.
6+ hour wait times for entrance :(

Actually the plastic object sticks real well to the windshield and is difficult to discard.

More importantly you began coming to the event after a (not uncommon) 6 hour Exodus wait time was cut by 50-80%. After a tiring week that little luxury is worth the price of a vehicle pass.
Be careful. You can spend all your money in there..............................Oriental Visitor

Meat Hunter
Posts: 957
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:44 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Meat Hunter » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:31 pm

My 2015 vehicle pass sticker was much more robust and more difficult to remove than my 2014 vehicle pass sticker.
Specializing in Calibrating Windsocks -- Any where, Any Time, and Any elevation.

Vidi ego exars.

User avatar
A-RockLeFrench
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:03 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: BONERPILLAR
Location: pennsylfuckingvania

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:10 pm

trilobyte wrote:If that truly were the case, a-rock, there would be no limit to the number of vehicle passes offered.
Obviously fucking not, Einstein.

Inflated-scarcity marketing only works when there is.... scarcity!


If there were un-limited vehicle passes, people wouldn't be freaking out about them and hoarding them; buying more than they need! Scarcity is one of the oldest sales tactics in the book. And for these pretty little (durable) $80 stickers I'd wager that it's sure as shit working.


And I'll have you know that it is my oh-so-humble opinion that the whinging about whinging was way better last year. You're gonna have to step it up my top-hatted friend.

zorro sings wrote: More importantly you began coming to the event after a (not uncommon) 6 hour Exodus wait time was cut by 50-80%. After a tiring week that little luxury is worth the price of a vehicle pass.
/snark hat off: I'm not so sure that the VP's are to be credited for the reduced exodus time of the last couple years. Pulsing seems to be a wonderful innovation and from my experience there's been a lot more people still around on Tuesday morning (well, I wasn't there for 2015), I can only imagine as a result of the campaign to encourage Burners to spread out their departure dates to alleviate Exodus strain.

User avatar
Tiahaar
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 9:13 pm
Burning Since: 2003
Camp Name: Starship Palomino
Location: Mojave Desert, CA (also Forever via Pandora)

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Tiahaar » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:16 pm

Future Vehicle Pass vehicle reduction plan:

Vehicles containing only the driver as occupant require a vehicle pass.

Vehicles containing 2 or more occupants do not require a pass.

A carrot and reward system. Reducing single occupant vehicles would likely be enough.


Or make it 3 occupants required to waive the pass, whatever is deemed most efficient. That way those who make the extra effort to carpool are rewarded with not sweating getting the pass and save a bit of money as well.
Burning Man 2003-18; Desert Carillon, HypnoHorse, Ulaume's Chimes, Iron Native, Black Rock Solar, Portal Collective, Center Camp Café Stage and Sound Tech, 747 Project
Starship Palomino

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:22 am

It certainly would be easier to just omit the vehicle pass requirement for vehicles carrying three or more people. It would also be impossible to be a "passenger for hire" like what happens for HOV lanes, as only newly ticketed people would count.

What the BMOrg loses, however, is control over the upper-bound of the number of vehicles entering the event. It would also mean that because the 3+ person vehicles are not using a pass, that fewer vehicles passes would need to be issued in total. Without knowing the expected number of 3+ person vehicles it may end up as a giant shit-storm as VPs are in even shorter supply because of bad estimates.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:38 am

jneilvindy wrote:Everyone pretty well agrees.
Um, I don't know about that... your post there was pretty nonsensical, or at least a poor summary.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:28 am

I imagine the only problem with simply admitting un-VPed vehicles with two or more occupants is accounting; they won't really know how many vehicles are there and the Feds probably want to know.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
Ratty
Posts: 6178
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:43 pm
Burning Since: 2008
Camp Name: Tiger Man

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Ratty » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:54 am

Bbadger, The Census Lab can tell them how many people came in each vehicle last year. (They go to great lengths for random sampling.)

Capt. gate could still count the cars by attaching a code sticker and scanning. When the city fills up they monitor entrants.
Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.
Arthur Schopenhauer

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:55 pm

Ratty wrote:Bbadger, The Census Lab can tell them how many people came in each vehicle last year. (They go to great lengths for random sampling.)
Is that using video or monitoring information at the gate? There could be duplication if relying on voluntary census data alone.

They could set the required number of occupants to 4+ to avoid a VP. That would maintain the ratio even with the current number of VPs being issued. I think it'd even help as it could give people a goal number to plan for, rather than having the uncertainty of getting a VP in the first place.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
A-RockLeFrench
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:03 pm
Burning Since: 2010
Camp Name: BONERPILLAR
Location: pennsylfuckingvania

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:06 pm

Or instead of a carpooling based system (ie: 4+ burners in a car don't need a VP) it could be an art-pool system. If you were alone but in a big truck carrying or towing an art piece (ie: contribution to the event) you don't need the vehicle pass.

The carpooling solution might address the issue of scarcity when it comes to the amount of vehicles being arbitrarily let in to the event but it could very well exacerbate the issue of declining quality/quantity of art in the event vs. the amount of people as result of the already well-articulated point that the VP's encourage people to bring less art. . IMO proposed solutions should address the issue of how do we get more art to the event and not more people.

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8338
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:09 pm

That's the big conundrum. When everyone rides the bus, everyone will be a spectator. That's worse than just having the population remain capped where it is.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
Popeye
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:39 pm
Burning Since: 2013
Camp Name: Beaverton
Location: Where the east wind blows

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by Popeye » Mon Apr 11, 2016 5:21 pm

BBadger wrote: Is that using video or monitoring information at the gate? There could be duplication if relying on voluntary census data alone.
Census has people at the gate stopping and asking every X number of vehicles to answer a few questions. Completely confidential and never had anyone turn me down. This is done as a check on the census form you fill out on line after the burn every year. Combine the two and it is pretty accurate.
“Tell me, what is it you plan to do / with your one wild and precious life?” Mary Oliver

User avatar
BBadger
Posts: 5865
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:37 am
Burning Since: 2010
Location: (near) Portland, OR, USA

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by BBadger » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:19 pm

We might just have to deal with the fact that a huge percentage of people are "spectator" sorts, and perhaps even embrace their unique needs, or lack thereof, as a means to enable art-bringing people to attend unhindered. If people are going to just see the sights, they might as well just get on the tour bus rather than drive in, soak up a VP, and waste gate-time. Then for people bringing and building shit, they get VPs, or EA treatment and all that jazz.

Maybe it ends up being that substantial numbers of builders and bringers get further special treatment (more EA passes, etc.), or if you're staying an extra day to alleviate traffic, etc. If the problem has to do with evacuations in an emergency situation, I have no idea what can be done.

I actually have no real problem with "spectators" as long as they're not shitting up the place, and as long as builders and bringers are unhindered. The goal really should be to continue to allow the core of the event to continue as it has, while dealing with the effects of this event's popularity.
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Hate reading my replies? Click here to add me to your plonk (foe) list.

User avatar
motskyroonmatick
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:37 am
Burning Since: 2004
Camp Name: B.R.C. Welding&Repair
Location: Aurora Oregon

Re: Vehicle passes do what?

Post by motskyroonmatick » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:47 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:That's the big conundrum. When everyone rides the bus, everyone will be a spectator. That's worse than just having the population remain capped where it is.
Exactly!!!
Black Rock City Welding & Repair. The Night Time Warming Station. iGNiTE! Bar.

Card Carrying Member BRCCP.

When you pass the 4th "bridge out!" sign; the flaming death is all yours.-Knowmad-

Locked

Return to “Tickets Discussion”