BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

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BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:28 am

Just thought I'd point out that the ticket price printed on the BM 2016 Pre-Sale tickets that I received is $390, not $990. I checked with Ticket Support and they confirmed that this is not an error. If anyone out there has had a different experience, it would be interesting to know.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Meat Hunter » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:47 am

I am of the opinion that the $990 ticket is going to be an easy sell at $390.

I heard talk (rumor) way-way back (and I cannot remember where I heard it) that they might be doing this with about 10% of the high-priced tickets in an attempt to minimizing folks scamming the system by purchasing tickets in two different price points.

Congratulations ---- You are a winner in the 10% lottery.

P.S. I did not say that you did this. You look like and honest person and I feel sure that you did not. But, it appears that a number of other folks did successfully scam system and are now trying to dump their higher priced tickets.
Last edited by Meat Hunter on Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Sham » Sat Jun 25, 2016 11:56 am

It doesn't really matter what the ticket says on the back, as long as you intend to actually use it.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Mother Fire Nymph » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:51 pm

My pre-sale tickets are imprinted with the pre-sale face value of $990.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:06 pm

So do I have an error in my order or not? Ticketfly tells me to contact Ticket Support at Burning Man for resolution on this, yet Ticket Support tells me there is no error. I have suspicions now about what is going on. Love to hear everyone's views on this, and whether there are others in my shoes.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Meat Hunter » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:14 pm

For the life of me, I do not see what the problem is.

To the gate folks, the amount printed on the back of the ticket is of no interest to them and they won't even look at what is printed there.

Just go ahead and use the Blankly-Blank Foxtrotting ticket and get on with it.......

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by zorro sings » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:40 pm

Meat Hunter wrote:I am of the opinion that the $990 ticket is going to be an easy sell at $390.

I heard talk (rumor) way-way back (and I cannot remember where I heard it) that they might be doing this with about 10% of the high-priced tickets in an attempt to minimizing folks scamming the system by purchasing tickets in two different price points.

.
A good take and (rumor) makes sense. Have to wonder why they don't just go ahead and mark all pre-sales at "$390". That would cause some interesting Ebay situations.
Be careful. You can spend all your money in there..............................Oriental Visitor

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by zorro sings » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:26 pm

Reno Craig s Lists has this today as well.

" 2 Pre-Sale 2016 Burning Man tickets plus one vehicle pass. $2270 for all. Paid $2271.74 for these in the Pre-Sale......... Please note that these tickets were received imprinted with $390 on the tickets. Burning Man Ticket Support has confirmed with me by email that this is not an error (copy of email available)"
Be careful. You can spend all your money in there..............................Oriental Visitor

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:33 pm

The problem is with people who can't use their pre-sale tickets for one reason or another, who've been *&#^@$ by Burning Man's 2016 pre-sale ticket pricing/delivery strategy, (if it's true that there's an experiment going on this year), and now have trouble selling their tickets even for what they paid for them, because they appear as scammers. For all the "principles" that Burning Man subscribes to, I find this disconcerting.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Meat Hunter » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:50 pm

Disconcerting, you say? I find it absolutely; on the floor, on my back and with feet in the air hilarious.

You mentioned your concern for "They". Not to worry about "They".

Relax. "You" will make it though the gate just fine.

If you are that interested in a possible printing/shipping error, archive it and buy a Leonardo da Vince Art Ticket (they are still for sale w/vehicle passes).

Who knows, you might have a Real Rare Burning Man Treasure sitting right there in your hand that might be worth millions as a collector item a few years down the road,

Have a good Burn.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by oly14 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:50 pm

Mother Fire Nymph wrote:My pre-sale tickets are imprinted with the pre-sale face value of $990.
Same for me, mine are also imprinted with $990.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Jackass » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:50 am

They should have printed $390 on every ticket that went out.
What, you thought your tickets were special or worth more than everyone else's? I don't think so...

Tricky Larry has other plans for you. Don't quit your day-job just yet, it's the old wooden nickel trick!

Let me guess, you and your friend can't get the time off of work... Is it just not in the cards this year, or were you able to secure some main sale tickets? Anyways, see you in the dust!!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:10 am

Like I said, I am interested in hearing what other people are experiencing with their Pre-Sale ticket face values. I don't really care why anyone is selling their tickets, nor is it anybody's business. I don't understand the need for sellers to explain why they are selling. The only concern should be whether the seller is scalping or not. The going price for BM tickets on Stubhub has been around $800 all of June. How many of those tickets do you suppose have a face value of $990?

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by jwilo » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:37 am

all of mine have the $990 price printed right on them

Image

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Jackass » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:31 pm

If you bought those tickets to hedge your bet and after you found cheaper ones decided to try to unload your presale tickets, you're a douche and will be considered a scalper for selling your tickets marked at $390 for any more than that. Don't fuck around and game the system... Use those tickets, that's what they're for.

They weren't being sold as an insurance plan, instead you got punked. Larry don't play that shit!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:56 pm

I think that's pretty funny.
Not a single one of you selling presale tickets is doing it because you considered burning man so important you paid $1000 a ticket and suddenly changed your mind about going. All of you bought them figuring on selling them after you got $400 tickets.
There are way more main sale tickets. That's why it's called the main sale. So how is it that virtually ALL of the tickets for sale are presale tickets, the ones purchased by people who wanted to go bad enough to pay that much and planned that far in advance?
You're all lying, everyone knows it. Your grandmother didn't die, your plans didn't change, your friends didn't suddenly bail.

I'd love to see just one of you tell the truth about why you have presale tickets for sale.
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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:24 pm

BM Ticket Support has had the decency to inform me that there was indeed an error in shipping the tickets after checking into it further, and will be resolving the issue. Thank you to BM.org for that, and to all who responded to my query......and yes, I know that doesn't change the market value of the tickets. That is set by the laws of supply and demand, and I will ultimately sell those tickets at market price, but no more than what I paid for them. Scalping is is selling a ticket higher than face value (+ fees) and, although legal, is discouraged by BM.org. They do, however, accept reselling at face value + fees. Those who don't like that system need to complain to BM.org to come up with a ticketing system that finally takes scalpers out of the equation.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by justanta » Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:46 pm

Scalpers, as far as I can tell, are far, far, far less of a problem this year than people like YOU(your hilarious use of THEY notwithstanding) who gamed the system by buying presale tickets as an insurance policy.

I posted a bit on this in the ticket sales forum, but I was (rightly so) asked to not discuss in a place not meant for discussion. But I want to post a bit here to illustrate why YOU (yes YOU) are hurting this community more than scalpers.

Based on the census, the 2015 burn saw a measly 2.8% of tickets sold at above face value. In total and through all channels (aside from the closed directed group sale) 37,000 tickets were available to the public. So 2.8% of that is only 1036 tickets. And yet, the presale tickets amounted to 5500 tickets!

The main issue with scalping is that it artificially drives up demand and thus denies people that ACTUALLY want to go the ability to. However, YOUR actions, and the actions of those like you, are doing the same thing but to a possibly larger extent! And further, by artificially driving up the demand for expensive presale tickets, you are incentivising the ORG to make more presale and less main sale tickets next year!

And you have the gall to say "I shouldn't have to explain my reasons for selling". Well, fuck you buddy. fuck you. I hope it takes the org too long to ship your "corrected" tickets and you don't get a chance to sell them. Oh, and btw, a GOOD chunk of presale tickets sold to the public were not used by anyone entering the burn. Meaning they weren't all successfully sold. So I hope you get stuck with your selfish decision. I really do.

If you see me in the dust I am NOT your buddy, buddy.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:50 pm

Hey justana. I am not interested in being your buddy, even if you try to come across as a holier-than-though burner, which by your remarks and the name of your camp you appear to be on the other end of the scale. So how many Pre-Sale tickets do you suppose are being resold? We need those statistics before you start ranting and raving about "artificial demand". I'm not surprised to not hear you mention anything about "artificial supply", the other end of an impending transaction in a marketplace, as your grasp of marketing and economics is sadly lacking. If I were to be selling a $390 ticket instead of a $990 ticket, the supply and demand for tickets is no more, no less, yet I suppose you would think that is OK? If absolutely no one resold any of their tickets, the demand for tickets would still be the same, but the market price would be sky-high due to zero supply of tickets. Stick with your S'mores and whores in your adolescent rave camp, as that's the only intelligence you seem to measure up to.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:57 pm

Scan the ticket boards dipshit. ALL the tickets are presales.
And everything being said applies to you, I guarantee it. You got cheap tickets and now you're unloading your presales.
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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by justanta » Wed Jun 29, 2016 5:39 pm

My "adolescent rave camp" is composed of myself and a friend, a third year and a second year burner so impressed with the burn that we are taking it onto ourselves to construct a mobile S'Mores roasting station to give out free S'Mores and heat to other burners all week. What are you contributing again?

You bought pre-sale and main sale tickets from the org. Had you only bought pre-sale, or only bought main sale, you would have increased demand by 1/2 of what you ended up increasing the demand by. And I am not talking about aftermarket demand, which you have conflated with main sale demand. You increased the main sale demand for tickets beyond the demand that would have existed had you only participated in one sale. The aftermarket still does not sell out each year, meaning you in fact ARTIFICIALLY increased demand on the main sale.

And the fact that each year, the pre-sales do not all get used means that the pre-sale SHOULD NOT be selling out each year. But it DOES, because people like you are so desperate to burn, you game the system using excess funds that most of us are not lucky enough to have available.

I am considering a pre-sale ticket next year to save myself stress. That means I can't buy two tickets (the second one I got this year I have gifted to a virgin, btw). But I will not be then trying to buy cheaper tickets to recoup my losses. The pre-sale is SUPPOSED to be for people who really, really want to go and want to ensure they can by contributing a bit more to the org. By gaming the system the way you are, you use excess wealth to reduce other's chances of experiencing the event.

You suck.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:03 pm

Well said. Those who really want to go, and who missed all the sales, now have two more tickets to choose from. This will help keep prices down so others can afford to attend. Remember my price is just an asking price. Everything in life is negotiable.

Don't make assumptions and generalizations on this discussion about what I've contributed to the Burn nor the reasons for why I'm selling. None of this is your business nor anyone else's.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:13 pm

How can anyone not assume what is going on, in light of the numbers of presales offered and the lack of main sales offered?

See you on the playa. Because you'll be there, won't you. You're not selling those tickets because you suddenly can't go. Neither are any of the other presale ticket sellers.

It's an easy and correct assumption.
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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:29 pm

Go check out Stubhub and count the number of tickets for sale. There are currently 119 tickets listed for sale at $990 or less. This price wouldn't compensate for the fees of a Pre-Sale ticket, especially since Stubhub takes a 10% fee themselves. As long as everyone else here is making assumptions, I'm going to assume that most of these tickets are Main Sale tickets. These tickets on Stubhub are vastly outnumbering the Pre-Sale tickets listed on eplaya and Craigslist, and they ARE selling. How about other ticket-selling venues? Where's the statistics on these? Don't you think there are people selling privately, peer-to-peer? Check your facts before you start making generalizations.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by justanta » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:31 pm

Those who really want to go, and who missed all the sales, now have two more tickets to choose from.
Let me rephrase that for you. Ahem.

"Those who really want to go, and have money for $1000 tickets, can now go, provided they cover what for me is turning into a financial blunder. Of course, they could have gone anyway, since the Davinci tickets are still available. Also, two people without an extra $1000 cannot go, because even though I have the money to afford high cost tickets, I decided to game the system to ensure my spot. But fuck those guys, they are poor anyway, they didn't really deserve to go in the first place."

That's more like it.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:50 pm

How many people each year do you suppose buy Main Sale tickets as insurance in case they decide to go to BM, but then decide later that they aren't going after all, and then resell their tickets? Would you call that "artificial demand"? Maybe it's "organic demand", and therefore, because it's sounds green, it's OK. The end result is the same: this demand drives up prices and sucks up tickets that could go to people who really intended on going. But, guess what? Those with surplus tickets can resell them at face value! Imagine that. Reselling a ticket. Isn't that awful of those people who STOLE the tickets from the poor who could barely afford them, and now are reselling the tickets!

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by justanta » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:57 pm

How many people each year do you suppose buy Main Sale tickets as insurance in case they decide to go to BM, but then decide later that they aren't going after all, and then resell their tickets?
Based on the number of resold main sale tickets, very, very few.
Those with surplus tickets can resell them at face value! Imagine that. Reselling a ticket. Isn't that awful of those people who STOLE the tickets from the poor who could barely afford them, and now are reselling the tickets!
If you can't understand how this is different from people buying presale tickets as insurance and then entering the main sale to try and save money, there is no point in continuing this discussion.

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by ok2burn2004 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:18 am

Let us all also speculate how many people are discretely "gaming" the system by 1) requesting tickets from their buddies who have a Theme Camp that gets increasing numbers of tickets each year via the Directed Group Sale (29,000 tickets this year), and then buggering off to another campsite, and 2) by having their friends and/or family members jump into the Main Sale event on their behalf in the hopes of increasing their chances of getting tickets. Many of these tickets get sold or transferred offline where their numbers aren't detected. Think it isn't happening?

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by justanta » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:15 pm

Let us all also speculate how many people are discretely "gaming" the system by 1) requesting tickets from their buddies who have a Theme Camp that gets increasing numbers of tickets each year via the Directed Group Sale (29,000 tickets this year), and then buggering off to another campsite, and 2) by having their friends and/or family members jump into the Main Sale event on their behalf in the hopes of increasing their chances of getting tickets. Many of these tickets get sold or transferred offline where their numbers aren't detected. Think it isn't happening?
That's a completely separate issue, and regardless I have argued against that system in its current form countless times. Why are you trying to redirect discussion away from the issue at hand? Feeling guilty?

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Re: BM 2016 Pre-Sale Ticket "Face Value"

Post by Eric » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:31 pm

ok2burn2004 wrote:Go check out Stubhub and count the number of tickets for sale. There are currently 119 tickets listed for sale at $990 or less.
Most of those tickets DO NOT EXIST: people are putting them up there on spec, then if they get a sucker who pays they go hunting for tickets that they can pay less for. Check the delivery dates, in 99% of the cases it's for the day Gate opens (or even after). They can cancel the sale for any reason, so there's no loss to them if they can't get a cheaper ticket to finalize the deal. This has been going on every year since the sell-outs began in 2011, and every year people freak about them. They shouldn't.

This isn't to say that about 1% of those sales are real people with real tickets to sell, but the vast majority aren't.
ok2burn2004 wrote:Let us all also speculate how many people are discretely "gaming" the system by 1) requesting tickets from their buddies who have a Theme Camp that gets increasing numbers of tickets each year via the Directed Group Sale (29,000 tickets this year), and then buggering off to another campsite,
#1 probably was true in the past, but not as of this year. Each camp is invited to the Directed Sale is given an exact allotment of tickets - those are guaranteed (it's not first come/ first served anymore). Those tickets are enough for a camps core set-up group (and sometimes not even enough for that), I don't know of any camps that have "spares" to give to buddies. I would guess that the vast majority of them stay within the camp if a person can't make it, and I know some camps that make that a condition for being able to purchase them in the first place. You can bet if someone got a camp ticket and then "buggered off" to another camp it would be the last year they had access to the sale through that camp. In this current ticket situation it's too valuable to be stupid with (though there are always people who are too stupid).

Your second point is accurate, but there's no way to know how many people are doing it. With the randomness of how people get tickets it's probably smaller than you think.

[/mod comments]

[personal opinion]
I'm of the opinion that all tickets should have the $390 base price printed on them, regardless of which sale you get them in. If you buy the early tickets it should be recognized that there is risk if you can't make it (the loss of ~$600), which would limit the sales to people who wanted to guarantee they got a ticket so they could plan (like people who have a lot of logistics to plan, plane tickets to buy, etc).

Since there's no way to weed out the bad operators from the good, you hit everyone with the same hammer. Most of the people I know who buy the Pre-Sale tickets are doing it to guarantee their entry, regardless of what the frothing hordes think, and I don't think they'd mind the premium since they're not planning to resale them. Those people who are gaming it, however, would have major reason to pause since reselling for higher than face value could get them banned from purchasing ever again, as well as cost them hundreds of dollars.
[/personal opinion]
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