Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Theme camps and villages are the interactive core of Burning Man. This is the place to announce and discuss camp and village plans for Burning Man 2016.
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triple_threat
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Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by triple_threat » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:17 pm

On behalf of the long time BM camp The Red Nose District....

I am posting today, seeking collaborators for this year's trip to the Playa.
We are looking for Theme Camps, Circus groups, STILTERS, performance troops, Art Installations, or any other interactive entities who might be interested in joining The Red Nose District & their well established legacy. We are a highly interactive and friendly group of folks, usually numbering in the triple-digits with a long-term presence at BM ( 20 years on the esplanade). This year we are giving some of our previous elements (Pedal-Bump, Steampunk Saloon) a breather, and this leaves space for some fresh what-have-you!

That's where you come in!

Already in place and playa-ready are long time elements such as The Stoop & The High Chair Stilt Bar & Fire sculptures that will remain on the front lines...and the well decked out infrastructure: The NOME(prefab kitchen/eating/lounging/hot showers)....behind the lines...this year RND is looking to collaborate with new entities.

There are amazing members ready, willing and able to participate in what ever options may come and, for our newly included invigorators, we have a cache of DGS Tickets & Car passes purchased, available to those folks who join in.

If you, or any one you know would be a good candidate for RND collaboration...please let me know.

Cheers!

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by BBadger » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:42 pm

IMO any camps that use their DGS tickets for recruiting purposes needs their DGS ticket quotas slashed, if not eliminated altogether.
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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:48 pm

That's more than just your opinion, I think it's even policy.
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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by triple_threat » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:01 pm

I hear you, BBadger.
Our tickets aren't being used to recruit; we have all aforementioned elements in place, including the man power ( we are 200 strong, DGS tickets were allotted to 33 of us, if that helps you feel better....to create a camp with placement, as we have for 2 decades now (we wouldn't be in good standing with the org for this long if we behaved without integrity, we have more than ample camp members to utilize our ticket allotment, but we thank you humbly for your opinion). What we *also* have, is physical space to allow some new creative vision, to ADD to what is already in place. We have enough interactivity to get placement, with a smaller footprint, and it may turn out that way...though this is also great opportunity for collaboration, if that is how it unfolds.

Even without any additional input, our camp is steady and solid, but as art goes, new and fresh energy is something our camp is excited to be able to be open to inclusion of.

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Jackass » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:04 pm

How much is it going to cost me to guarantee that I get my hands on an at cost DGS ticket, EA and car pass instead of having to fight it out with the masses in the main sale? I'll hand out red noses for a few hours too!! I think I'd be a great fit for your camp!!! I'm super chill!!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by triple_threat » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:05 pm

Not looking to unload tickets, by any stretch of the imagination. Our camp is full of awesome and lively energy. If you have an idea you think should be a part of the playa, get in touch!

We'll be happy to give out a bag of red noses to dole out on playa, but you'll have to supply your own ticket :wink:
Last edited by triple_threat on Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Jackass » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:07 pm

I don't think so, brah...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Jackass » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:21 pm

triple_threat wrote:Not looking to unload tickets, by any stretch of the imagination. Our camp is full of awesome and lively energy. If you have an idea you think should be a part of the playa, get in touch!

We'll be happy to give out a bag of red noses to dole out on playa, but you'll have to supply your own ticket :wink:
for our newly included invigorators, we have a cache of DGS Tickets & Car passes purchased, available to those folks who join in.
Not what it says here, but I'll take your word for it. It's good to know that those extra passes they pulled from the main sale to add to DGS didn't go to just anyone...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Elliot » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:04 am

triple_threat wrote:... ... we have a cache of DGS Tickets & Car passes purchased, available to those folks who join in. ...
triple_threat wrote:...
Our tickets aren't being used to recruit... ...
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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Captain Goddammit » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:23 am

nevermind Jackass just said exactly what I was gonna.
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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by BBadger » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:15 am

triple_threat wrote:Our tickets aren't being used to recruit; we have all aforementioned elements in place, including the man power ( we are 200 strong, DGS tickets were allotted to 33 of us, if that helps you feel better....to create a camp with placement, as we have for 2 decades now
Don't LIE to us with this fantastical spin. It is plainly stated in your topic post that "we have a cache of DGS Tickets & Car passes purchased, available to those folks who join in."

This also implies that you have been allocated way too many DGS tickets -- well beyond those necessary to "get access to tickets for their critical team members so that they can begin planning their projects" [emphasis mine].
(we wouldn't be in good standing with the org for this long if we behaved without integrity, we have more than ample camp members to utilize our ticket allotment, but we thank you humbly for your opinion).
Well that "good standing" has changed now hasn't it? You were supposed to return any spare tickets to the general pool, but instead you have a surplus "cache" -- a cache that you are using to recruit newcomers.
What we *also* have, is physical space to allow some new creative vision, to ADD to what is already in place. We have enough interactivity to get placement, with a smaller footprint, and it may turn out that way...though this is also great opportunity for collaboration, if that is how it unfolds.
Whatever dude.

Every camp has physical space for some new "creative vision." This doesn't entitle you to receiving extra DGS tickets beyond what is needed to build your camp.
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Re: Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Jackass » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:21 am

How many tickets would it take to constitute a "cache" just out of curiosity? Sounds to me like there's plenty of meat still left on the bone. You're doing it all wrong. You're supposed to wait until after the main sale to let these offers rip, that way you can capitalize on optimize camp fees in times of scarcity.

These tickets were never intended to be used as a recruitment tool, in order to insure you get your moneys and worker ants all in line for the privilege of joining your already complete and fully functional camp. Not to worry, they'll still pay to camp with you if only for having real estate on esplanade and showers...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by trilobyte » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:35 am

Moderator Note:
This thread had been parked in quarantine for 24 hours while awaiting guidance from the Placement team regarding statements made in the first post. We have heard back from placement, and they've indicated that it might be good to let this conversation play out. In restoring the thread, I am also editing the subject line to include the camp name, as we ask camps to include their name when posting an announcement or recruiting thread.

That said, I ask that you keep replies civil, and please refrain from making personal attacks. Thanks!

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:07 am

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by TT120 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:13 am

I was under the impression that DGS tickets were just for the core members of a placed camp to use to build the camp. If you have a "cache" of DGS tickets for new members then it sounds like you asked for way too many DGS invites. I had to work my ass off to get into the DGS but it seems that I could have just thrown some money at you and gotten a ticket without all the work. How much for an early entry pass?
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:21 pm

"for our newly included invigorators, we have a cache of DGS Tickets & Car passes purchased, available to those folks who join in."

I really want a clear explanation of that statement, and why you don't think that's a direct violation of the terms of the DGS. And why you shouldn't have all your DGS tickets and placement revoked, like has happened to other camps who did that.
I don't think anyone gives a crap about anything else you said, no one cares about your Esplanade placement or what you've got going on. We're just interested in that specific piece of system-cheating privilege abuse.
Which, quite frankly, puts the ethics of your whole operation in question.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:43 pm

it also makes the whole dgs thing questionable in the eyes of the community.

dgs is important, and is a
crucial ingredient in the special sauce.


you kinda just peed in it, like that guy at the Kellogs factory.


so, dont get my wheaties soggy and then tell me its the humidity.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by triple_threat » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:04 pm

Wow, guys, so angry!
I truly (honestly) appreciate everyone's efforts at maintaining integrity and equanimity for our community, and promoting responsible use of theme camp 'privilege', as one of you kind folks referred to it. Though I'm not sure how privileged I/we feel, after 18+ consecutive years of paying full price for tickets and then the privilege of herding cats for 6months trying to coordinate camp efforts, and, of course, the added privilege of paying for truck(s) rental costs , materials for infrastructure and art creation, camp storage rental fees, etc. Then the bonus snobbery of arriving on the playa to work harder than I/we ever have at our day jobs..., in order to create a worthwhile experience and space for anyone who wishes to partake. You are so right! We are spoiled.

As I mentioned in an initial post, we have been, and continue to be, in good standing and communication with the placement team regarding our camp and practices, and this post/thread. Here is the copy/pasted response from Answergirl (on the placement team) on this topic:

"What good timing for your note. I already heard from our moderator at ePlaya about this post, so it was my plan to reach out to you.
Thanks for being pro-active.

At first blush I see absolutely no issue with what you are doing. You are looking for people to join your camp and you have resources for those people, if they are a good fit.

I am also grateful that our community is always looking out for our integrity and the morals of others.
In this case, I hope those throwing the stones are willing to keep the conversation going and not just flame and run.

The conversation needs to be about maintaining camp culture, and sometimes that means looking outside of the personal network for new people.
A good way to entice new people is to let them know you are a camp in good standing and got DGS and you intend on maintaining that status."

So, yes, I can see the flare up regarding the mention of DGS tickets. When I saw that as the inflammatory element of the initial post, I mentioned editing it out, which I was unable to do, possibly because the post had already been flagged and put into quarantine.
Im not too keen on "explaining " our situation further, as I feel the provided response from the placement team speaks for itself. Also, however, I think much of this could have been accomplished with a more mature, more diplomatic, and less douchey tone. Seriously you guys, tone it the fudge down. Maybe find some other outlets for your (perhaps superfluous) time and energy.
Peace.

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:33 pm

must be that anti-established fever, gripping the nation...


but in all seriousness, your OP was poorly phrased at best and sounded like bribery.

and if i were to compare this to the current political situation, i would say you are coming off very clintonesque.


perception is everything, and i am merely offering an opinion on a matter based on a post you made.


i dont think the members of the board are being unreasonable by pointing this out.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new b

Post by graidawg » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:38 pm

Relax guys and girls, Burning Man is not a democracy some camps are allowed to clearly flout the principles guidelines. others not so much.
So I guess its ok to offer DGS tickets as an incentive to new blood if you are "in good standing" with 18 years behind you even if you are dropping key parts of the interactive experience have previously offered (and what presumably got those DGS in the first place)

but yea, to me it sounds like bribery because you're coming up short on things to offer
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Elorrum » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:54 pm

soorry...no hot shower, pre-built hexa yurt, or vegan menu mentioned. I'm not trying for this one. 8)

It does disturb me, that perhaps the OP had an excess (especially of car passes) knowing how some friends were in a bad way worried about reduced or re-directed DGS offerings.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Jackass » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:57 pm

If placement says it's perfectly fine to hoard extra DGS tickets in order to bolster your numbers after the fact, then it's cool by me... (not really, but what difference does that make).

Now, open those floodgates if you will. Don't cry if and when those well-fed chickens come home to roost and defecate all over your doorstep. (Not a threat by any means, merely an observation)
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by triple_threat » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:07 pm

Not hoarding, nor excess that will be left unattended to. Our camp will be going through the application process just like all the others, and will be accountable at every step for our process.

We have tried, in good faith to show that we are in touch with the people that make the rules. We are working to do this upfront and forthright. I guess that's not enough for the people responding.

So if you are convinced we are nothing but trouble, guess thems the brakes.
See you on the playa.

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by TT120 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:20 pm

We don't think you're trouble, we just wonder why you seem to have a bunch of extra DGS tickets when they are supposed to be in short supply. Almost every camp I know of got cut back on the number of DGS tickets they were given access to. They are meant (or so I thought) for camps to use for their core group so the camp can be built. It seems that you asked for way more tickets than you need to build your camp and now have excess tickets you are using to entice new people.

THAT is the issue. We couldn't give a shit less how long you have been coming to Burning Man or whether or not placement likes you. We are passionate about our event and stuff like this raises our hackles.

Oh yeah, how much for an early entry pass?
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Elliot » Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:43 pm

Having now read this new information from Answergirl, I stand corrected. My impression of how the DGS rules are to be interpreted was clearly wrong.

I do see how the "core" of a camp can deserve DGS tickets, even when the individuals of that core are replaced with other individuals. It is conceivable (not bloody likely, but conceivable) that my own camp could need to do this -- that is, replace a number of our bicycle mechanics with new mechanics in a single year. Or even switch from bicycle repair to, say, mutant vehicle repair at the same time. The value of our camp to the BRC community would remain the same, which is what the Camp Lead is personally responsible for.

This unfortunate episode has a big bright silver lining. I have learned a ton. Besides a new understanding of the facts, I have learned not to allow ePlaya, or the tone set by any moderator on ePlaya, to influence my understanding of anything.

Based on this, I will for the time being limit my participation on ePlaya to threads relating directly to my own camp only.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:21 pm

In light of how things have been handled, I'm even less thrilled with Placement.
If they are good with a camp stockpiling DGS tickets and offering them to strangers online as a perk to joining their camp, I need to stop giving a shit about lots of stuff.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Sham » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:29 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:In light of how things have been handled, I'm even less thrilled with Placement.
If they are good with a camp stockpiling DGS tickets and offering them to strangers online as a perk to joining their camp, I need to stop giving a shit about lots of stuff.
I was bewildered as anyone else here, but my understanding is this: A camp may need 30 people to assemble the structure and the infrastructure. The names of those workers may not be known when tickets are purchased. People who are willing to join and build the camp have an opportunity to purchase tickets that are in the hands of the camp organizers.

I think I have this right. It's starting to make sense.

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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by A-RockLeFrench » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:52 pm

Heres a completely made up example of something you guys!

The camp that I am a part of has a certain number of DGS tickets made available to it. With this number in mind, the leadership of the camp came up with a certain number of 'lead roles' to more or less match up with that number. Some of these involve things like camp infrastructure, generators and grids, fuel, kitchen, and others of them involve things like LNT, interactivity, specific art projects within camp and on and on.

For the sake of this analogy, lets pretend that my camp needs a leader in organizing transportation. And the camp still bought the DGS ticket that lines up with this 'core member' position. A couple of weeks (or months, whatever!) later we end up recruiting a burner who is possibly a good fit with the camp and also this wonderful person has experience (from other years attending the thing) organizing and renting/driving u-hauls and setting up camps. Well shit, we happen to have a DGS ticket assigned to our Transportation Organizer, you wanna be that guy? Great! Now you can focus on getting our camp to the playa instead of worrying about whether or not you can score a ticket.


.....


Really, I don't see much wrong with the original post and I think the poster has handled it quite well.


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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by gaminwench » Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:07 pm

I'm thinking Sham and Rock got it right.
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Re: Red Nose District:Established esplanade camp seeks new blood

Post by Elderberry » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:08 am

Me too.
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