Frostburn or other Winter Regionals...

dubz · Post by **dubz** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:12 pm

Hey all.

I was wondering if anyone on here has been to Frostburn or a winter regional before. We are currently organizing our shelter and heating arrangements, and I was hoping there is someone I could reach out to for tips...

I have a lot of experience with winter camping and staying warm in the super cold, but a lot of my people don't, and I have never done it on a scale such as this. We are currently building a 24' dome. It is going to be skinned in a tarp, with a silver reflective side facing in. We are creating triangles of insulation by laminating cardboard together to a thickness of 1/2", and these will go inside, under the tarp.

We are going to have a Monkey Hut as an airlock/entrance, and this will be where people remove boots, wet clothing, etc.

The things we are trying to figure out is what to do about flooring the dome, as we would like to have slippers or booties on inside. Also, we are trying to figure out whether to heat it with propane, kerosene or electric. Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Dubz

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:52 am

Electric would seem safest to me?

Carpet remnants, rugs from a thrift store to line the floor with?

I have always wanted to go to Frostburn. I hear it's like, 35 people!

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:11 am

lol.. yeah.. this sounds absolutely miserable, to be honest.

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:17 am

junglesmacks wrote:lol.. yeah.. this sounds absolutely miserable, to be honest.

That's part of what appeals to me. Weeds out the weak ones.

Post by **AntiM** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:42 pm

We hold our winter burns on private property. They have a heated dive shop we can use for the potluck supper, and to warm up and dry our feet when the fires burn low. Very few camp overnight there, although e can rent the Scamps. They're unheated, brrr.

We've had our carports set up, with propane heaters, but never for sleeping.

Yes, a dive shop in the Utah desert. They have deep warm salt springs and teach scuba. One year, one of the guys tripped and fell into one of the small pools. We got him into the shop and everyone ransacked their vehicles for warm clothes for him. Luckily I had my flannel-lined pull on snow pants and a spare faux fur coat with me. So have extra dry and warm clothes on hand. You never know what will happen.

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:52 pm

C.f.M. wrote:
junglesmacks wrote:lol.. yeah.. this sounds absolutely miserable, to be honest.
That's part of what appeals to me. Weeds out the weak ones.

If by weak you mean us warm weather loving, margarita sipping creatures of comfort then hell yeah.. sign me up on the weak list..

Boijoy · Post by **Boijoy** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:54 am

There is a "fire & ice" festival in Ely Nevada every year. Not sure many people camp.

http://www.elynews.com/articles/2010/09 ... news15.txt

mzfit · Post by **mzfit** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:30 pm

I went to Frostburn 2 years ago when it was 30 below zero Friday night. We had trouble getting a fire going but when we did it drew people around! Anyone that skipped the idea of a cooler - had their food and drinks frozen solid by morning. The coolers kept the items inside from freezing over - so we were able to cook! The key to staying warm for me while sleeping was having many of the big coleman canvas sleeping bags. I opened them all up flat and had one on the tent floor - then an air mattress - then another one on top of the airmattress. I put an electric blanket over that one and had 2 zipped together for a nice big warm bed over all that. The cold didn't bother me a bit!

There were about 120 people(I think) there and we had a grand time. Its more challenging to do costumes when you need so many layers to avoid frostbite! We did some sledding down the road from the upper area to the lower and that was a LOT of fun. I saw a group trying to do the same thing in an inflatable raft - there were like a dozen of them. Because it is a smaller event - I was able to pitch in and help constuct the snowman effigy. The 3 "balls" if you will - were already constructed - we just had to stack them and secure them - then stuff with many flammables. I met a lot of great people there and plan on going back this year! Fortunately the weather shouldn't be quite that cold - but as Avacado Tom told me - we go to the desert in August and are drawn together because of shared adversity - why not do the same in the opposite time of year and struggle against the elements there??!!

As far as your dome - I would definitely say electric heat - unless you plan on venting the fumes. I have done several garage parties with propane heaters and if you don't ventilate properly enough - eyes will be burning within a few hours! Also - check with any billboard companies in your area - used billboard material can be a good floor base on top of the snow - then use carpet remnants on top of that!

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:47 pm

That dome sounds like it'd be pretty tough to heat but at least it would block the wind. I've been snow camping and slept in the back of my SUV and it sucked ass, lol. I had to sleep in all my clothes+sleeping bag and pulled my beanie down over my face to keep it warm. Any exposed skin and the cold air would find it and wake me up.

drucake · Post by **drucake** » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:34 pm

freezerburntx.com about 250 people.

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:52 am

I've got a small group of friends going to Frostburn this year for the first time. I've never been either, but what the hell.

We're gifting burn barrels (cut your own) and plan on running quite a few burn barrels at a time for warmth. We're also going to try cover a couple of monkey huts with insul-tarp or something similar and putting a wood stove in it.

I'm trying to figure out how to keep the propane for my flame effects from freezing.... :-/ I have an offer for a couple hundred pounds to be gifted, but I don't have a way to store it if it gets that cold...

I'm camping in my truck and bringing a catalytic tent heater. My friends are all fucked and have no idea how goddamned cold they are going to be.

Post by **AntiM** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:34 am

Be certain you vent that tent heater well. They will kill you in your sleep otherwise. Had it happen here in Utah to some hunters.

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:43 pm

You can get 12v electric blankets. That would be safer than the catalytic heater, just make sure you have a way to jump your car battery if it kills it, or run it off an extra battery.

C.f.M. · Post by **C.f.M.** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:35 am

Down heats up fast and stays warm.

Ugly Dougly · Post by **Ugly Dougly** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:34 am

What about cuddling around a bonfire?

I've been to a few events where everyone sits cozily around a roaring fire and bullshits, feeling good, then they retreat to their tents and shiver the night away... What's wrong with this picture?

Montanarchist · Post by **Montanarchist** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:29 pm

Electric resistance heating is VERY inefficient, unless you have grid power find another solution.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:38 pm

Controled short circuit?

Montanarchist · Post by **Montanarchist** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:46 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Controled short circuit?

Yup, an average genny running resistance heating....they'd be better off stuffing a few cats in everybody's sleeping bag.

After all who doesn't like to be surprised by finding strange pussy waiting in their sleeping bag?

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:53 pm

Just curious, do you use a heat sink in your system?

Montanarchist · Post by **Montanarchist** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:00 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Just curious, do you use a heat sink in your system?

Both charge controllers (solar and turbine-diversion) have large heat sinks, as does the inverter. Anywhere where mass amounts of power are being handled need a way to divert excess heat. I've seen the temp of the diversion controller near 70 degrees Celsius, it handles on average 30KWH each day. I couldn't even touch my wattage if I wasn't running 48VDC.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:47 pm

This is a different type.

On the south side of the structure, you dig a trench 6ftx6ft and as long as the structure.

Pour a slab in the bottom with a drain.

Line it with a grouted solid block wall.

Fill this with river rock about the size of softballs.

Build a cover painted with heat absorbing opaque black paint.

Build an insulating panel that closes over that at night. (it could be activated with a timer and winch.)

It collects heat during the day and distributes it through the house at night.

Montanarchist · Post by **Montanarchist** » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:33 pm

FIGJAM wrote:This is a different type.

On the south side of the structure, you dig a trench 6ftx6ft and as long as the structure.

Pour a slab in the bottom with a drain.

Line it with a grouted solid block wall.

Fill this with river rock about the size of softballs.

Build a cover painted with heat absorbing opaque black paint.

Build an insulating panel that closes over that at night. (it could be activated with a timer and winch.)

It collects heat during the day and distributes it through the house at night.

Oh heating-wise. The homes mass comes from 22YD3 of concrete in the floors and north wall, and the 140 logs that I harvested from my own land for the post and beam superstructure. I have 1800' of 1/2 PEX in the floor that gets hot water circulated through it when the storage tank (the primary hot tank is 48VDC) reached 139 degrees.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:03 am

Wow, Figjam, that sounds like a nifty solution that should be more widely used. Much cheaper than fossil fuel and much, much cheaper than pv solar.

*starts wondering if trough solar would ever have home use scale applications*

Beest · Post by **Beest** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:14 pm

I'm trying super hard to make it to Frostburn this year.

As far as shelters go, I prefer a small tent for winter camping, good ground insulation, and a better-than-decent bag with spare blankets if need be.

At 6ft and 225 pounds, I don't really get cold easily or quickly, so I'm usually peachy with some nice wool/synthetic long underwear, a hat/balaclava, and decent socks.

Woodburning stove for the dome, perhaps? You should be able to get enough pipe to vent out at the top/side.

See you all on the playa, if not before.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:25 pm

Why does that post make my three-chambered heart flutter?

dubz · Post by **dubz** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:37 pm

Problem with woodburning stove is that it takes a lot of maintenance, and is not the safest option, by a long shot. Any burning of anything will need some sort of venting at times. I am thinking that a combo of propane and electric will be our best bet....

trystanthegypsy · Post by **trystanthegypsy** » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:10 pm

flooring: those foam puzzle mat things, over top of a tarp or something, on top of wood pallets to get you off the ground.

hexayurts! cool in summer, hot in winter!

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:30 am

People have been heating cloth buildings with fire for a lot longer than we've been installing central heating.

Bluemandrew · Post by **Bluemandrew** » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:09 pm

montanaprometheus wrote:Electric resistance heating is VERY inefficient, unless you have grid power find another solution.

Frostburn has grid power

dubz · Post by **dubz** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:29 pm

Bluemandrew wrote:People have been heating cloth buildings with fire for a lot longer than we've been installing central heating.

Agreed, but wood fire is much more high maintenance than say, kerosene or propane. Also, harder to extinguish immediately, should the need arise.