Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

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some seeing eye
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Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:09 am

Hold on to your flight controls for Monday: the Federal Aviation Administration and the Department of Transportation plan an announcement

http://fortune.com/2015/10/16/drones-register-department-of-transportation/.

Everyone in the industry fears that it only takes one crazy person to do something with a drone to set back the reputation of drones and innovation for years.

Interesting that the BMORG policy preceded the FAA.

(http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-10-06/faa-urges-largest-fine-yet-on-drones-in-crackdown-on-near-misses)
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Elderberry » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:59 am

Better start registering them now then waiting until every body and their brother has one, the NDA is formed and they add them to the second amendment. At least people will be used to the idea and they'll see that regulation doesn't lead to confiscation.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby CyanEssence » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:56 pm

I watched a couple of guys setting up a drone about 30 feet back from the crowd at White Ocean on (I think) Tuesday night of the Burn (I was out in the deep playa, coming back to camp, not hanging out at WO). I rolled up on my bike to see what they were doing, and contemplated adding my $0.02 about how dangerous this could be at Burning Man, let alone over White Ocean.

Turns out I didn't need to say anything.

Once they got it airborne, the thing crashed down sideways, slammed into the playa, split in half (top and bottom, it looked like the top was the rotors and the bottom a camera). It bounced and skittered around for a good 30-60 seconds, kicking up dust everywhere. It looked heavy too, and about 2.5-3.0 feet across.

I am glad it didn't make it just a few more feet into that crowd. Then I would have seen the thing cutting up some raver's body.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Meat Hunter » Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:43 pm

Did you tell them how much you were looking forward to seeing them fly and how sorry you were to see it all crashed into big chunks on the playa?

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Jackass » Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:01 am

Why does everybody hate on drones so much, and assume every drone that takes flight is going to maim someone and film them naked and fornicating? I'm not an owner or operator. Sure they can be a pain if they're reckless or too numerous, how are they adversely affecting your burn?
I've never been threatened by one. If one gets too close, we'll see who wins. I'm not scared...(nor am I Enrique Iglesias)
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Captain Goddammit » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:24 am

My best friend has a $4000 drone and it's cool as fuck!
I'm a drone-hater at burning man for reasons like the story above. And even my buddy's drone crashed into another friend's roof once.
I love flying it and it takes amazing video.
They are great fun but don't belong over crowds.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Dr. Pyro » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:32 am

Captain Goddammit wrote: They are great fun but don't belong over crowds.

Unless of course you're talking about the crowds at Laguna Del Sol.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Meat Hunter » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:44 am

I have a small drone that I use to fly over my pine plantation to look at the tops of the trees for evidence of Pine Beetle activity.

When used and not abused, flying drones can be a fun hobby and a very useful tool. It is the 1% of drone operators that give all the problems, cause serious safety concerns and person privacy issues.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:42 am

Details: https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-transportation-secretary-anthony-foxx-announces-unmanned-aircraft-registration

Polling:
January 2105 poll Reuters - 73 percent of Americans want regulations for drones. 42 percent oppose private ownership of drones. 30 percent said private drone ownership was fine, and 28 percent were not sure

71 percent said drones should not be allowed to operate over someone else's property, 64 percent said they would not want their neighbor to have a drone.

68 of respondents support police flying drones to solve crimes, and 62 percent support using them to deter crime.

46 percent don't want news organizations using drones to gather news, 41 percent support. 49 percent think parents should be able to use drones to monitor their children, 38 percent oppose. (Parents using drones to monitor their children - WTF!)

The survey of 2,405 American adults has a credibility interval of plus or minus 2.3 percentage points.

Drone sightings by aircraft rapidly rising. Pilot report 238 sightings in 2014 to the FAA, to more than 650 January - August 2015, altitudes to 10,000 feet.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Meat Hunter » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:44 pm

Children not being allowed to play outside in the yard unsupervised. Children not being able to walk themselves to school or to the corner store. Parents using drones to monitor their children.

What is this world coming to....?

For once, all this makes me glad that I am old and happy that I do not have all that many more years to live.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Molotov » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:29 pm

At what point does one cede ownership of the airspace over their private real estate? 500, 1000, 10,000 feet? Because airliners and private planes routinely invade my sovereign airspace and I want them to stop! (I wil deal with those Barksdale AFB B-52s later)

Harumph, harumph....

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby thnkfl » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:58 am

While I certainly enjoy seeing things from the air, at Burning Man the issue for me is disrespect for two of the principles: participation and immediacy. Instead of flying around vicariously to experience the event, get off your fucking ass and get out on foot and actually interact with people.
Make it, enjoy it, let it go.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Elderberry » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:51 pm

I don't think anybody flies those to "experience" the event. I think they use them more out there for filming and picture taking.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby maladroit » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:35 pm

Drones == bad.

Guy holding a camcorder, strapped to a 50 foot pole counterweighted by an old engine block == fucking cool.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby BBadger » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:15 pm

I think drones are pretty cool, even at the event. They've taken some really cool videos and photos, and done right, could even be part of an art project or something. With that said, I think I've slid more towards regulating these drones to keep out the "riff-raff" drone users who really aren't qualified to fly them. Having a bunch of people flying their $140 crappy drone they got from an online shop out of Hong Kong is just asking for death-from-above incidents. The permitted users should have to meet specific requirements in equipment, experience, and operations.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Roundabout » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 pm

BBadger wrote:I think drones are pretty cool, even at the event. They've taken some really cool videos and photos, and done right, could even be part of an art project or something. With that said, I think I've slid more towards regulating these drones to keep out the "riff-raff" drone users who really aren't qualified to fly them. Having a bunch of people flying their $140 crappy drone they got from an online shop out of Hong Kong is just asking for death-from-above incidents. The permitted users should have to meet specific requirements in equipment, experience, and operations.

To mandate these requirements to avoid drone deaths that have never happened before, shouldn't we also at least have the same mandated requirements to own a gun? Just sayin.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby A-RockLeFrench » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:07 pm

BBadger wrote:I think drones are pretty cool, even at the event. They've taken some really cool videos and photos, and done right, could even be part of an art project or something.



A couple years ago I ran across a couple of dudes with a drone out in the back streets somewhere. They mounted a camera on it and had set up a wireless feed from the camera to a retro-fitted old school VR mask headset thing and piped in music. Wearing the mask while they flew the drone around the city and seeing what the drone 'saw' in real-time was pretty awesome.


Just an example of a neat art project or something that drones could be used for.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Jackass » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:23 pm

I think a drone may have tried to knock over my drink once, it may have been an honest mistake...No harm, no foul.

Could outfit a drone like a fighting rooster, and have it squaring off with combatants outfitted in dog attack suits at Thunderdome. I'd go check that out.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby CyanEssence » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:37 am

Meat Hunter wrote:Did you tell them how much you were looking forward to seeing them fly and how sorry you were to see it all crashed into big chunks on the playa?


Nah, it seemed like they had suffered enough. The guy flying it sat down in the dirt, and put his face in his hands. I just watched his display of shame and casually pedaled off.

thnkfl wrote:While I certainly enjoy seeing things from the air, at Burning Man the issue for me is disrespect for two of the principles: participation and immediacy. Instead of flying around vicariously to experience the event, get off your fucking ass and get out on foot and actually interact with people.


Yes! I have been talking about a camera-less day movement for these same reasons. Imagine a day at the burn with no cameras. It would be awesome, more immediacy and participation with those around us, less inhibitions, pure magic.

BBadger wrote:Having a bunch of people flying their $140 crappy drone they got from an online shop out of Hong Kong is just asking for death-from-above incidents. The permitted users should have to meet specific requirements in equipment, experience, and operations.


The three guys that crashed the drone had a pretty serious drone, and looked like they really knew what they were doing (looks can be deceiving I suppose...). They had a van out on the esplanade (just a tad off the street maybe), a huge controller, and some stuff involving tripods.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:20 am

Here is some national data from the FAA where aircraft reported encountering drones.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Popeye » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:18 am

That chart is pretty much meaningless. From the chart:
"Please note that the information provided in each incident report is not consistent and that the quality of the reporting varies" WTF?? :roll:

If there 301 near misses then I'd expect some of the numbers on the chart to add up to 301. Am i missing something?
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:19 pm

Here is the updated report with graphics:
http://dronecenter.bard.edu/files/2015/ ... unters.pdf

With the numbers of Burners who are attracted to drones, sure we will get complaints over any policy at the event. The study shows large numbers of drone pilots flying over the 500 foot limit and closer than 5 miles to airports, both prohibited.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Molotov » Sat Dec 12, 2015 6:24 pm

Can't fly within 5 miles of an airport? Guess that would include the entirety of Black Rock City...

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:07 pm

Molotov wrote:Can't fly within 5 miles of an airport? Guess that would include the entirety of Black Rock City...


True. You could ask around the airport staff and BMORG under what reasoning a limited number of registered drones were allowed last year. A limited number of responsibly piloted video drones is useful to the event. Personally I think all that authorized footage should be co-owned by the drone operator and the BMORG. The BORG can handle nonprofit reuse use and the owner can license commercially. IMO
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:08 pm

My region is drone central, so I follow.

This is concerning: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36067591.

Even though I have considered buying a drone for video/photography myself, most people in the industry are concerned about the rogue idiot that will destroy the industry. And yes, law enforcement has the capability to do so. Of course we all know from our experiences on social media that idiots do not exist, ever, right? It concerns me I don't see a solution to a simple and severe problem. And I would 100% support law enforcement to destroy the entire hobby drone industry if there is a demonstrated need because of bad actors to do so.

So yes, I still strongly support the current BRC drone policy.

And don't be a bad actor IRL.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby trilobyte » Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:42 am

It is cases like that drone strike of the British Airways flight that is the greatest threat to Burning Man's drone policy. Technically, every bit of drone usage at Burning Man exists as an approved exception to FAA rules, which forbid using drones within several miles of an airport. Since Burning Man has an airport, that puts the entire space of the event within restricted airspace. If there are enough encounters with planes anywhere in the world, the powers that be will become more reluctant and eventually completely unwilling to allow us to have drones at the event at all. Rogue drones at the event (the ones you see flying over camps and city streets, or at big burns, etc) don't help either, every jackass who posts footage just gives regulators evidence that drones can't be controlled at the event.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Token » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:30 pm

Or we could move the Airport 5 miles down deep playa.

Lots of space there.

Heck, put some LSA out there as well.

Just say'n. Lots of ways to make it all work ... at the expense of the "Glitterati" of course ... so never gonna happen.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby trilobyte » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:49 pm

Speaking personally, I don't see any plans to make significant changes to the closure order or city plans/airport location anytime soon. I think the intention is to try and accommodate safe and accountable operators for as long as possible, without incurring significant expense along the way.

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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:05 am

https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=20515

Regulations will create new opportunities for business and government to use drones

June 21, 2016

WASHINGTON – Today, the Department of Transportation’s Federal Aviation Administration has finalized the first operational rules for routine commercial use of small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS or “drones”), opening pathways towards fully integrating UAS into the nation’s airspace. These new regulations work to harness new innovations safely, to spur job growth, advance critical scientific research and save lives.

“We are part of a new era in aviation, and the potential for unmanned aircraft will make it safer and easier to do certain jobs, gather information, and deploy disaster relief,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx. “We look forward to working with the aviation community to support innovation, while maintaining our standards as the safest and most complex airspace in the world.”

According to industry estimates, the rule could generate more than $82 billion for the U.S. economy and create more than 100,000 new jobs over the next 10 years.

The new rule, which takes effect in late August, offers safety regulations for unmanned aircraft drones weighing less than 55 pounds that are conducting non-hobbyist operations.

The rule’s provisions are designed to minimize risks to other aircraft and people and property on the ground. The regulations require pilots to keep an unmanned aircraft within visual line of sight. Operations are allowed during daylight and during twilight if the drone has anti-collision lights. The new regulations also address height and speed restrictions and other operational limits, such as prohibiting flights over unprotected people on the ground who aren’t directly participating in the UAS operation.

The FAA is offering a process to waive some restrictions if an operator proves the proposed flight will be conducted safely under a waiver. The FAA will make an online portal available to apply for these waivers in the months ahead.
“With this new rule, we are taking a careful and deliberate approach that balances the need to deploy this new technology with the FAA’s mission to protect public safety,” said FAA Administrator Michael Huerta. “But this is just our first step. We’re already working on additional rules that will expand the range of operations.”

Under the final rule, the person actually flying a drone must be at least 16 years old and have a remote pilot certificate with a small UAS rating, or be directly supervised by someone with such a certificate. To qualify for a remote pilot certificate, an individual must either pass an initial aeronautical knowledge test at an FAA-approved knowledge testing center or have an existing non-student Part 61 pilot certificate. If qualifying under the latter provision, a pilot must have completed a flight review in the previous 24 months and must take a UAS online training course provided by the FAA. The TSA will conduct a security background check of all remote pilot applications prior to issuance of a certificate.

Operators are responsible for ensuring a drone is safe before flying, but the FAA is not requiring small UAS to comply with current agency airworthiness standards or aircraft certification. Instead, the remote pilot will simply have to perform a preflight visual and operational check of the small UAS to ensure that safety-pertinent systems are functioning property. This includes checking the communications link between the control station and the UAS.
Although the new rule does not specifically deal with privacy issues in the use of drones, and the FAA does not regulate how UAS gather data on people or property, the FAA is acting to address privacy considerations in this area. The FAA strongly encourages all UAS pilots to check local and state laws before gathering information through remote sensing technology or photography.

As part of a privacy education campaign, the agency will provide all drone users with recommended privacy guidelines as part of the UAS registration process and through the FAA’s B4UFly mobile app. The FAA also will educate all commercial drone pilots on privacy during their pilot certification process; and will issue new guidance to local and state governments on drone privacy issues. The FAA’s effort builds on the privacy “best practices” the National Telecommunications and Information Administration published last month as the result of a year-long outreach initiative with privacy advocates and industry.

Part 107 will not apply to model aircraft. Model aircraft operators must continue to satisfy all the criteria specified in Section 336 of Public Law 112-95 (which will now be codified in Part 101), including the stipulation they be operated only for hobby or recreational purposes.
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Re: Future Drone Policy BRC & USA

Postby Ratty » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:31 am

Isn't this the HUGE loophole in the sky that all the drones will fly through?
The new rule, which takes effect in late August, offers safety regulations for unmanned aircraft drones weighing less than 55 pounds that are conducting non-hobbyist operations.
All of a sudden everyone will be a hobbiest. 'The rules don't apply to me. I'm just having fun.'
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