Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

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some seeing eye
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Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:08 am

The Environmental Impact Statement - EIS for Burning Man 2019 - 2028 is in process. It is a big project in which BMORG proposes future plans to increase the population to 100,000 from 80,000 today, and negotiates with stakeholders, the BLM, the Counties, law enforcement, the tribes and you on the details.

The EIS includes things you would not think of as environmental, and once accepted becomes something like a law governing the next 10 years of the event.

https://eplanning.blm.gov/epl-front-off ... ctId=93518

Is a high level statement with instructions on how to give your opinion. You have until August 6.

The project is at https://go.usa.gov/xnBTu.

Two meetings if you are in the area are:

        July 9th 2018, Council Chambers in Fernley City Hall, 595 Silverlace Blvd., Fernley Nevada 89408, 5:30-8:00 PM
 
        July 10th 2018, Pershing County Community Center, 820 6th St., Lovelock Nevada 89419, 5:30-8:00 PM.

Burners might be interested in this item:

“BRC would mitigate traffic to and from Burning Man through a combination of existing programs…Burner Express Bus (BxB) would expand to accommodate a greater number of passengers and a higher percentage of the population, as would Burner Express Air (BxA).

The number of vehicles passes in distribution [27,000] has not changed since their introduction [2013] and would not change in the future, even with an increase in population; the number of people and vehicles accessing the Event site during build week would, however, increase [to 30,000].”

Me, I’m proposing the organizers create and make public a carbon report each year which estimates carbon emissions broken down into participant US and Canada air travel, international air travel, personal/rental vehicle travel, BxB travel, BxA travel, on-playa burns, on-playa generators, outside vendor hauling/delivery vehicles, on-playa vehicles MV & infrastructure, and on-playa biofuels.

I would also propose that the organizers provide a census reported publicly of the exact number of persons, counted, not estimated, per vehicle entering the main gate. It would be reported in the form of a distribution of the exact counted number 1,2,3,4,5, etc. Today it is estimated by the census, not measured and publicly reported.

I would propose the vehicle passes increase each year in proportion to the increase in non-Bx* participants as measured in the previous year. And that the vehicles per hour on 447 Southbound meters exodus, taking into account the vehicles per hour on 447 Northbound. Finally that a new paved lane be added to 34 between the gate and the 447 Y for safety and emergency evacuation reasons.

I think it's funny in the official documents submitted to the government that the map of BRC includes "The Man." Calling it "the golden spike" would be equally funny!
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:48 am

“Carbon Report”?

Is this a personal view on doing the right thing, environmental beliefs, or do you think the BLM cares about that?

Counting cars is easy and convenient. What will “Carbon” add to the equation as it can be derived from the car count?

I’m rather convinced the roads are pretty much the longest pole in the tent and the vehicle pass/mass transit bus, as clumsy as it is, pretty much what we will be stuck with.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:30 am

The event is past the point of no return to what made it cool.
Flying and bussing masses of people in, who obviously must depend on vendors (or “camps”) to accommodate them and obviously cannot be bringing much for anyone else to enjoy ruins it.
The majority become spectators.
There’s just no way around that.

It’s just over.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Popeye » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:08 pm

Me, I’m proposing the organizers create and make public a carbon report each year which estimates carbon emissions broken down into participant US and Canada air travel, international air travel, personal/rental vehicle travel, BxB travel, BxA travel, on-playa burns, on-playa generators, outside vendor hauling/delivery vehicles, on-playa vehicles MV & infrastructure, and on-playa biofuels.
Very hard to do. How can the ORG know who flew by what route? Who used biofuels? generators? etc. That's an awful lot of work just to get an estimate. Then those figures would be interperated to "prove" everyone's differing opinion

I would also propose that the organizers provide a census reported publicly of the exact number of persons, counted, not estimated, per vehicle entering the main gate. It would be reported in the form of a distribution of the exact counted number 1,2,3,4,5, etc. Today it is estimated by the census, not measured and publicly reported.
Census asks every Xth vehicle to fill out a survey at the gate. Census doesn't do any counting we just look at information you provide. Gate counts people in and out but probably not how many in each vehicle. If you are looking road use/ wear and tear it might be more helpful to have the weight of each vehicle.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:42 pm

Token wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:48 am
“Carbon Report”?

What will “Carbon” add to the equation as it can be derived from the car count?
I think burners do not realize air travel is the greatest "contribution" by Burning Man to global warming, climate change and increased severe storms. I think many burners think they are pure as snowflakes as far as global warming. My proposal would provide the data. All the art burns are primarily wood, which you could argue is carbon neutral. The BLM doesn't care about it now under "mine the swamp" Zinke, but someday it will.

Now if all our international travelers booked a berth on a freighter rather than an airline, it would be a different story. Or they could all buy carbon offsets. I also believe avgas used by BxA still contains lead. Correct me if I'm wrong on that!

The Capt. has it right. And the BORG is going to realize they are going to need to increase the outside vendor services to haul stuff in the principle of "radical reliance on someone else, but OK because it's 'radical'."

As for Mr Popeye's questions. The BORG is hopefully getting its marketing act and big data together using the emails tied to the burner profile and ticket sales. The fly-in can be grouped into East US-Canada, Europe, Western Russia, India, Israel, Eastern Asia, Aus/NZ and South America to estimate air miles. The BORG is already starting a generator survey of placed camps, and the fuel depot can break out MV, generator and infrastructure fueling by inspection or a simple question. It would be easy with a little code through the gate ticket scans to compile the exact persons per vehicle and build the report. The census is a beautiful thing, but sampling theory is limiting.

Big data can reduce the poor virgin to returnee and regional yield to help rationalize the ticket shortage which is not going to be resolved by a slight gradual population cap increase.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:06 pm

OK, so that editorial part was personal beliefs.

I’m with the Captain on this...

FUBAR

Now, if a big push was made for regional high density attendance ... there is some merit to that ...

Otherwise, the whole Burner Express Xxx is a fucking cop out.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Leo » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:54 pm

At some point the population needs to be capped, whether it is 80,000 people, 100,000 people, or somewhere in-between. If the infrastructure and access to the burn aren't maxed out now at 80k people, they might be at 100k. The Burner Express and BXair are "band aids" at best.

Maybe it's time for Burning Man to move to private land and be held 2 or 3 times a year, say a late spring, mid-summer, and early fall burn. This would take the heat off the supply and demand problem. 3 burns with a population cap at 80,000 would accommodate nearly a quarter of a million folks each year.

Extrapolating this event further (snark alert), this could become a year-round event, like an alternative Disneyland, where the man burns every Saturday night.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Ratty » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:13 pm

Instead of me trying to explain...i would like all of you 'data curious' folks to spend some time at the Census lab this year. You will be pleasantly surprised with the mode and results of the BRC Census.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:05 am

Ratty wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:13 pm
Instead of me trying to explain...i would like all of you 'data curious' folks to spend some time at the Census lab this year. You will be pleasantly surprised with the mode and results of the BRC Census.
How does the census, which is voluntary and inherently biased, intersect with the EIS?

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Ratty » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:57 am

Token, I'm NOT the person to speak publicly about what and how the Census gathers. It's a department full of data-driven academics. Sure, I hear all about it and even understand some but....You can contact them now or read all about it in the Journal. You can examine last years Census and gather a ton of info on the process and results. As for the
inherently biased
aspect, It is offset/weighted by the random sample. Please don't dismiss the results. There is a lot more to it than the rumors proclaim. Information is _______________. Whatever you make of it.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:27 pm

Not dissing the academics, just curious if the BLM considers the census data as viable.

It is one thing to count cars as they roll in vs. asking folks to disclose data during or after the event.

Counting cars is more accurate.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:22 pm

So are the 30,000 - 40,000 people flying or bussing in just coming to spectate at what the real burners brought?
What ever happened to “no spectators”?
Oh sure, you’re flying in or bussing in, but you’re not a spectator because you volunteered for something.

Fuck that. You’re a spectator. Sorry all you far-away people who want to go to Burning Man, but you’re what is fucking it up.
What? It’s too hard to carry your own shit and art stuff all the way to the middle of nowhere? Well guess what, YOU chose to go to a difficult place... if it’s too hard and you have to fly or bus in and depend on some camp or plug & play, which is what more and more camps are really becoming, you’re what’s wrong with Burning Man.

Any camp that solicits members online is also what’s wrong with Burning Man today.

Sorry, sensitive daisies, but that’s the deal. If it hadn’t been how it was, it wouldn’t have ever been so cool. The more you spectator fly-in and bus-in people fuck it up with your mere presence, the worse it gets and the less worth going it becomes.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Papa Bear » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:44 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:22 pm
So are the 30,000 - 40,000 people flying or bussing in just coming to spectate at what the real burners brought?
What ever happened to “no spectators”?
Oh sure, you’re flying in or bussing in, but you’re not a spectator because you volunteered for something.

Fuck that. You’re a spectator. Sorry all you far-away people who want to go to Burning Man, but you’re what is fucking it up.
Oh, here we go with this bullshit again. You've ranted about this plenty of times before, and you've been countered with examples of people who take the bus and do contribute. Not that you've ever bothered to acknowledge any of them, so far as I can tell.

I'll ask yet again - why should it matter if someone sends their gear along with a partner or a campmate on a truck, then arrives separately via bus or air? What's the problem with someone from the easy coast buying space for their stuff in a shared shipping container and flying out? That's just logistics, and it has fuck-all to do with what they do or do not contribute on playa.

Riding the express bus or even coming in by air doesn't somehow magically make someone any less a participant than if they drove in themselves. What matters is what they do *at the burn*, not what form of transportation they use for the last hundred miles or the overall distance they travel to get there.

Are PnPs bad for the burn? Damned right they are. But there are lots of people on those buses that *aren't* PnP spectators, and tarring them all with that same tired brush is nothing short of idiotic. Some spectators drive their RVs in as well - are you also prepared to declare every RVer a spectator?

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by gaminwench » Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:08 am

Honestly, if I weren't the one tasked with driving the camp's infrastructure truck to-and-from, I would *totally* do the rockstar, fly in thing.
Yes, I *could* afford it, if I planned accordingly.
I accrue many extra costs to accommodate supporting the camp's necessary transport regime; if I re-directed those funds/time, it would be much easier on my (aging) meat sack.
But no.
This will be my nineteenth burn; I work hard & play hard, every year.
Driving that truck, with the attendant 6 days of toing-and-froing, loading and unloading offsite, not being able to 'freeze my fav meals cuz too much pre-event road time', and solo drivers' exhaustion actually compromises my energy levels on playa.

Mind you, I am not complaining; just putting it out there that I could more fully contribute on-playa without that added 'burden' at the front/back end.

And anyone that would question my participation level, or my burniness(TM), could bite my (lovely) ass.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 am

gaminwench wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:08 am

And anyone that would question my participation level, or my burniness(TM), could bite my (lovely) ass.
That there has all the makings of a theme camp attraction!

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:23 am

Maybe it’s bullshit, maybe it’s not. Probably it lands somewhere in the middle.

You have to admit that a lot of commodification has happened once tickets sold out.

The question will remain, if going from 25K to 50K to 70K got us here, how do you cram 100K and maintain some sort of sanity.

Vehicle passes remained pegged at 27K but we double the population every decade? Something gotta give.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by gaminwench » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:32 am

Token wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 am
gaminwench wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:08 am

And anyone that would question my participation level, or my burniness(TM), could bite my (lovely) ass.
That there has all the makings of a theme camp attraction!
You should stop by my camp; we'll add ass-biting as a feature, just for you (but you'll have to get a Blow Job, first).
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:42 pm

gaminwench wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:32 am
Token wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:12 am
gaminwench wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:08 am

And anyone that would question my participation level, or my burniness(TM), could bite my (lovely) ass.
That there has all the makings of a theme camp attraction!
You should stop by my camp; we'll add ass-biting as a feature, just for you (but you'll have to get a Blow Job, first).
Throw in some enema hydration and this kind of shenanigans just might tempt me to crawl out from under my rock and return to the Playa. ;)

Yall are fucking lovely and I miss you!

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Jul 06, 2018 1:58 pm

Once I had a few thoughts on the direction of the event, but I was taught my lesson.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Papa Bear » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:22 pm

Token wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:23 am
You have to admit that a lot of commodification has happened once tickets sold out.
Oh, sure, I agree. Tickets selling out (and the DGS sale to try to compensate) has encouraged the formation of lots more theme camps, as well as made the ability to obtain a scarce ticket something of a status symbol. Both seem to be likely contributors. So, I'm sure, are the increased influence of social media, self-promoting celebrities, better cell phone connectivity during the event, and the various "Burning Man as tech networking event" articles that get posted now and then.

Which of those are really meaningful contributors? Your guess is as good as mine.

What I'm objecting to here is just the overly-simplistic and dismissive smearing of Burner Express Bus and Air riders as being nothing but PnP-camping, zero-self-reliance, negative-contribution-to-the-city spectators. I'll absolutely concede that there are some riders like that, but I also know there are plenty that aren't.

Could one make an argument that the majority of riders skew one way or the other, and thus argue that they are a net positive/net negative to the city? Sure - though I'd like to see some shred of actual evidence from anyone who actually did try to make such a claim. Personal opinion and assumptions don't qualify as evidence, no matter how loudly, how often, or how abrasively they are proclaimed.

That's one of the reasons I bring up RVs in comparison - I've been around long enough to remember people arguing loudly that RVers were just spectators, that they were damaging the culture, and that RVs should be banned. While those arguing for a ban could certainly point to specific examples of RVers who fit that description, anyone with half a brain could see that there were also plenty who didn't.

Demonizing BxB/BxA riders is just more of that same old lazy thinking, this time with a different bogeyman.

Any policy you can name or propose has both good and bad effects, and good people may not even agree on which is which. If we're going to have conversations about what policy should be, we should take all of that into account, not just the parts that fit our preconceived notions.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:06 pm

Maybe if the BORG focused on sustainability rather than perpetual growth, a creative balance could be found.

Having a freight option that tags along with the BxB could be an interesting angle to explore.

Alas, it is run like a typical US corporation ... grow grow grow.

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Ratty » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:43 pm

I always wondered...in the land of FREE, why is there a coffee shop that takes money. How did that happen.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by XPTom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:05 pm

[quote=Ratty post

I always wondered...in the land of FREE, why is there a coffee shop that takes money. How did that happen.
[/quote]

Cold beer I could understand..... but hot coffee on the playa??? ..... who sells their burner soul for that???
How many old burners does it take to change a light bulb? Just one to change the bulb..... and five more to reminisce how good the old bulb was....

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by gaminwench » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:40 am

Hippies and tourists who need a safe, neutral gathering space.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Ratty » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:43 am

That explains Center Camp with art and seating but how did a wild gathering that shuns money decide to open a coffee shop? Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking it. I just think it's odd.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by gaminwench » Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:38 am

I read somewhere, a while ago (how's that for non-committal?), that back in the day, The Hat felt that it would be good to have a centralized place for new folk to acclimatize and be acculturated. So, coffeehouse?
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:31 am

gaminwench wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:38 am
I read somewhere, a while ago (how's that for non-committal?), that back in the day, The Hat felt that it would be good to have a centralized place for new folk to acclimatize and be acculturated. So, coffeehouse?
I thought that was the orgy dome?

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by gaminwench » Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:33 am

Well, yes, but Orgy Dome isn't run by the Org, doesn't take money, and single lonely hippies aren't welcome there.
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Papa Bear » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 am

While I don't agree with the line of thinking it describes, this is the closest thing to an official answer about coffee sales at center camp I've ever seen: https://journal.burningman.org/2013/11/ ... of-coffee/

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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Ratty » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:07 am

Thanks PaPa Bear. That is a great explanation. The meer fact that it started out free explains how it came to be.
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