Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

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JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:26 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:30 am
The event is past the point of no return to what made it cool.
Flying and bussing masses of people in, who obviously must depend on vendors (or “camps”) to accommodate them and obviously cannot be bringing much for anyone else to enjoy ruins it.
The majority become spectators.
There’s just no way around that.

It’s just over.

Absolutely...I miss it, last attendance was 2007 and seems there's no going back.... :(

JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:28 pm

I have been watching it Live Streamed on YouTube AND wonder "how did it get to this?" I am lucky and glad I got to enjoy it before it became what it is now...Disneyland with dust.

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm

That means you saw Crude Awakening... holy FUCK, huh?!!
I seriously doubt that’ll ever be topped.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

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Token
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Token » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:41 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm
That means you saw Crude Awakening... holy FUCK, huh?!!
I seriously doubt that’ll ever be topped.
Amen!

2007 was the beginning of the end. Pretty much a change of guard.

The moment they announced the political theme with an agenda, the corporate oligarchy was evident.

Uchronia in 2006 is an honorable mention in the peak of BM, despite the corporate controversy.

08 - 11 were the slow decline, a few blimps of steampunk.

12 onwards is just Disneyland. No meritocracy, all bucket-listers.

There remains a core faithful fringe element but they are few and far between and grandeur of imagination has diminished.

[/old jaded duck hat]

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some seeing eye
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by some seeing eye » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 pm

The economy is at or near peak. The venture economy is at or near irrational peak. Hollywood is doing quite well. That means a record volume of playa art is being sited.

Interest in the burn is growing to population segments that are not affected by economic cycles. So attendance and even significant patron sales plus donations are likely. The organizers even have enough cash on hand to ride out a year cancelation (as a prudent business should) and they can individually retire. Regionals are healthy.

With the polarization of American society, the populist sheriff of the nearby county has decided to challenge the organization, after the county lost a previous round in court. That issue is a serious issue for the event as they were apparently able out maneuver the organizers by arranging a federal appointment for a tribe member and bringing in the BIA (cabinet-level request?) What is interesting is that the concerns of the Nevada State Patrol about traffic congestion were overcome by the slowing on early entry for stop and frisk.

In an economic downturn, we are only left with the cream, their sherpas, bodyguards and outside services. That really changes the event.

I hope we can actively engage more small scale individual artists and reduce the attraction of the event as a dance festival bucket list destination. I believe the census numbers of 1-2 person vehicles allow hauling art projects. But I agree BxB with minimal baggage limits can encourage spectators and those not prepared. The airport is clearly serving people with camps who hauled their stuff, so that much smaller number falls to the organizer acculturation group to solve.

BxB with on-playa water allows just enough to survive maybe, but little to make art for other burners, which the Captain points out and I agree.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input rditionsquested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:33 am

"Sorry, sensitive daisies, but that’s the deal. If it hadn’t been how it was, it wouldn’t have ever been so cool. The more you spectator fly-in and bus-in people fuck it up with your mere presence, the worse it gets and the less worth going it becomes..."
Last time I attended, I was choked out by diesel generators from peeps sitting in their RV's all day soaking up AC waiting for conditions to become optimal before they ventured out.

Thank you Capt. Goddamit...
BINGO!!!!! :P :P

JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:42 am

2007 was the beginning of the end...

You felt that too?? My whole camp bailed out Sat. am in 2007 and skipped the burn, none have been back since. We were comprised of Burners that went back as far as the first years on the playa, myself 1st attending in 2000. The vibe was so bad...

JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:54 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:17 pm
That means you saw Crude Awakening... holy FUCK, huh?!!
I seriously doubt that’ll ever be topped.

HAHA!!! we spent most of our time re assembling our camp every day after 6/7 hour dust storms for three days straight.

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Captain Goddammit
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Captain Goddammit » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:59 am

JULES64 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:42 am
2007 was the beginning of the end...

You felt that too?? My whole camp bailed out Sat. am in 2007 and skipped the burn, none have been back since. We were comprised of Burners that went back as far as the first years on the playa, myself 1st attending in 2000. The vibe was so bad...
Well I’ve been a burner since way-back and was there in ‘07, I agree it isn’t what it was but it wasn’t THAT bad. The feel is different though.
That’s something you can’t get from all the pictures and video.

The isolation was part of it that’s totally gone. There was zero communication with the outside world.

People now don’t know but back then cameras ALL had to be tagged, you weren’t even allowed to take pictures unless you’d been educated about proper etiquette.
They finally had to give up when the prevalence of cell phone cameras made it a losing battle.
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

JULES64
Posts: 9
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:59 am
JULES64 wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:42 am
2007 was the beginning of the end...

You felt that too?? My whole camp bailed out Sat. am in 2007 and skipped the burn, none have been back since. We were comprised of Burners that went back as far as the first years on the playa, myself 1st attending in 2000. The vibe was so bad...
Well I’ve been a burner since way-back and was there in ‘07, I agree it isn’t what it was but it wasn’t THAT bad. The feel is different though.
That’s something you can’t get from all the pictures and video.

The isolation was part of it that’s totally gone. There was zero communication with the outside world.

People now don’t know but back then cameras ALL had to be tagged, you weren’t even allowed to take pictures unless you’d been educated about proper etiquette.
They finally had to give up when the prevalence of cell phone cameras made it a losing battle.

OK, it wasnt THAT bad...but it was enough that we all decided to not attend again. Yeah the feeling of isolation was one of the big draws for me, that you really couldn't communicate with the outside until you got back home, camps weren't so closed off and circled with RV's like a bunch of settlers awaiting attack from the Apaches...used to be if you brought a rental truck like Ryder or UHaul, you HAD to have the logos covered up ...now it looks like an aerial shot of Paul Everet's RV center. Sitting in the dust and realizing that trying to keep clean was futile, but part of the fun. Now everyone looks like they just freshly showered before stepping out in only the most optimal conditions.

JULES64
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by JULES64 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:50 pm

I guess we can sit around and bitch or find an alternative...

for me, mine was motorcycling, took it up again around the same time I attended my last burn, after years of not riding...not quite as hedonistic, but I share a commonality with many others...and there's nothing quite like the freedom of the road, and it is something enjoyed alone or with others.
I am on my 4th bike in 12 years...and will keep on rolling as long as the bod' permits

wraith
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by wraith » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:37 am

motskyroonmatick wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:36 pm
Things changed after the population cap was hit and tickets were limited.

It was a really great thing to have the only limit to attending be whether you could get your shit together enough to attend and pull off your gift.

It would be a great thing if we could make a leap in transportation that was still based in RSR so we could raise the population enough to get back to where people don't have to acquire tickets through the current system of being connected, work or blind luck.
There is nothing 'lucky' about getting a ticket these days, just a question of if your pockets are deep enough to buy in the presale so you have a backup to scalp if the main sale lottery misses on you.
some seeing eye wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:50 pm
The economy is at or near peak. The venture economy is at or near irrational peak. Hollywood is doing quite well. That means a record volume of playa art is being sited.

Interest in the burn is growing to population segments that are not affected by economic cycles. So attendance and even significant patron sales plus donations are likely. The organizers even have enough cash on hand to ride out a year cancelation (as a prudent business should) and they can individually retire. Regionals are healthy.

With the polarization of American society, the populist sheriff of the nearby county has decided to challenge the organization, after the county lost a previous round in court. That issue is a serious issue for the event as they were apparently able out maneuver the organizers by arranging a federal appointment for a tribe member and bringing in the BIA (cabinet-level request?) What is interesting is that the concerns of the Nevada State Patrol about traffic congestion were overcome by the slowing on early entry for stop and frisk.

In an economic downturn, we are only left with the cream, their sherpas, bodyguards and outside services. That really changes the event.

I hope we can actively engage more small scale individual artists and reduce the attraction of the event as a dance festival bucket list destination. I believe the census numbers of 1-2 person vehicles allow hauling art projects. But I agree BxB with minimal baggage limits can encourage spectators and those not prepared. The airport is clearly serving people with camps who hauled their stuff, so that much smaller number falls to the organizer acculturation group to solve.

BxB with on-playa water allows just enough to survive maybe, but little to make art for other burners, which the Captain points out and I agree.
A radical suggestion: do a year or two with zero big sound camps.

Kill the dance floors and DJs, and watch what happens next.

If you don't want to be Coachella Lite, then cut out the elements that draw that crowd.

Call it a theme. Burning Man 2019 : Unplugged :D

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Traveller in Time
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Re: Burning 2019-2028 Plan - Your input requested (long)

Post by Traveller in Time » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:14 am

Special for your SHORT input. Limited words, limited time.
Dreaming a temporary world improving the default world



Not expressing yourself but embracing all other expressions is The Challenge




...I can make anything I can imagine . . . I just can't make _some_ things happen



Have some Free will

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