Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Building an art installation or mutant vehicle? Planning to perform? Building a stage or performance space? Talk about your 2018 playa projects here.
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Tiahaar
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Tiahaar » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:40 am

sigh. this is why I don't post here much anymore. so much hearsay so easily spread. anyways. no, there are no deep ruts left from the plane move. I was there till the last equipment rolled out Oct 1. Gerlach residents and camp members from District, Mayan Warrior, Pathogen Trackers, DPW, HEAT, Peik Trucking, Sunbelt and numerous other groups all gave time and resources to complete the plane move and restore the access point off playa. the full story will be a great future blog post. yes the area gets many seasonal visitors of all types, we even had a bus full of Soldier Meadows environmental tourists stop in. the plane blends in more than you would think and it is fine to walk around and take a look at it. an on-site caretaker will hopefully discourage random vandalism. I am not a member of big imagination camp, just a metal fabricator/builder on the plane project ;-)

Imageplane final clear by Tiahaar, on Flickr
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Canoe
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:18 am

maladroit wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:13 am
Predicting a sad post sometime around next May. I'll hedge my bets and call either sunk deeply into mud (in an artistic tilted fashion) or some really impressive bullet holes and fire scars.
yup
not good
Should hold a prediction contest:
  • Date of first bullet hole?
  • Number of holes by Aug 2019?
  • Number of holed windows by Aug 2019?
  • Date the first axle sinks to soil surface?
  • Number of axles at or below soil level by Aug 2019?
  • Date of first flat tire?
  • Number of flats by Aug 2019?
  • Date of first fire?
  • Date first part noticed missing?
  • Number of missing parts by Aug 2019?
  • Date of first plane party?
  • Number of Playa-High claims by Aug 2019?
Look at them take off! Ha ha. What were they shooting at? Don know. Looks like a plane, but ... maybe someone stole part or it's from that Area place. That real? Don know. Let me try to hit it. Did you hit it? Don know. Let me try. Did you hit it? Don know. Let me try again. Did you hit it? Can't tell. Try a slug. K. Did you hit it? Don know. Thought I saw something fly. You try a slug. Did you hit it? Can't tell. What were you aiming for? The door thing. Doesn't look different. Might have hit one of those black things. Let's call Bobby, he's got a Barrett. K. Bobby? Yeah Bobby, we got something out here for you to shoot; it's too far for us to know if we hit it and the trail's too muddy to drive in and we're not gonna be able to walk it and carry beers, so bring the Barrett. Should be able to punch holes we can see. K, see you soon. Hand me another beer while we wait. K. Let's drive a little South into Pershing while we wait so we don't get shit for being out of our jurisdiction.
Ratty wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:01 am
I dont think they realized how many people visit the area all year.
It's certainly not on the edge of a bombing range anymore. Or there were limited choices.

(Anyone know if the North range received live bombs or just aiming dummies? If live, was it ever cleaned up?)
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Bless » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:55 am

Tiahaar wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:40 am
the full story will be a great future blog post.
I'm looking forward to this. I hope there are some important lessons learned for the organizers. I wonder if the whole project was worth it from their perspective.
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Sham
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Sham » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:09 pm

Now that the 747 is safely parked off playa for the winter, it may be a good time to look back on the whole plane art project.

This was an incredibly ambitious project that involved a huge amount of people and money. The intent was to bring more and make it bigger and better each year. Like so many things at Burning Man, people make larger than life dreams all come to life on the playa. The 747 fit right into what Burning Man is and how things come together.

The weight of the fuselage and the mis-balanced plane led to all the technical problems removing the plane. I'm not sure if tight money also contributed to the troubles.

In any event, I think this project should be praised for all the effort it took to bring this to the community, and hopefully next year will bring a whole new perspective if the plane returns (or allowed to return).

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by lucky420 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:17 pm

Mmmm don’t tell me what to do Mr. Rogers... :lol:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Canoe
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:23 pm

Sham wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:09 pm
... The 747 fit right into what Burning Man is and how things come together...
It doesn't feel that way to me. But it obviously did to many others who provided funds, blood, sweat & tears.
Sham wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:09 pm
... project that involved a huge amount of people and money...
Since I first heard of the project, and all along, every time I couldn't help thinking: what else could that money & effort have created/brought to the playa. It just seems that it used up a lot of money, blood, sweat & tears for a fire-cracker result when the efforts could (should?) have been applied to several something elses and resulted in a lot of fireworks sized results.

But it was their first run, so if it survives until next year, and there's effort willing, who knows what it can grow or morph into.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Ratty » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:00 pm

When you traveled the road from the man to the temple this year did you see those 3 metal flowers off to the right? They were 12 foot high interactive sculptures from France. The freight option wouldn't get them here on time so they had them flown over. It cost a fortune. They were very beautiful. The lights and sounds never got working the way they had hoped. They were disappointed about that. BUT...They're Burners and they wanted to do it. We stopped by several times to try it out. Could they have spent their money on something easier, bigger, prettier? Oh yea. They weren't sorry. They weren't embarrassed. They had an idea and tried it.

Late in the week they stopped working shifts out at the art and someone climbed it. People can be so mean.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:12 pm

Ratty wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:00 pm
... 12 foot high interactive sculptures...
Good example. How many sculptures or interactive pieces could have been brought to the playa for the efforts put into the 747?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:14 pm

These guys put in huge, never-give-up effort on their idea of what they wanted to to with their time and money.
A whole lot of people and camps shell out large sums of money and effort doing what they do.
Relative to my own personal budget, I shell out a ridiculous amount on my burning man stuff.

The hell if anyone is gonna tell me what to do with my time and money, I’ll make that call or I won’t go at all.

If the Big Imagination crew didn’t build what you’d have built, good. That’s what keeps things interesting.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:22 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:14 pm
... If the Big Imagination crew didn’t build what you’d have built, good. That’s what keeps things interesting.
Exactly.
Which is why I wonder how many wonderful, different, creative, pondering, thought provoking, contemplating, delighting, calming, stimulating things could have been created and brought with the same money, blood, sweat and tears.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Token » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:39 pm

Canoe wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:12 pm
Ratty wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:00 pm
... 12 foot high interactive sculptures...
Good example. How many sculptures or interactive pieces could have been brought to the playa for the efforts put into the 747?
Who the heck goes out there for the sculptures?

Most of the “art” is amateurish, kitschy and decidedly meh.

It’s all about the debauchery, FKO-ism, and assless chaps.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Traveller in Time » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:19 am

This discussion shows how much we care about "it"

The emotion, the time spend thinking about the object. The artists will be proud accomplishing this piece many people care (/disgust) about. :D
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by ygmir » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:24 am

Canoe wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:22 pm
Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:14 pm
... If the Big Imagination crew didn’t build what you’d have built, good. That’s what keeps things interesting.
Exactly.
Which is why I wonder how many wonderful, different, creative, pondering, thought provoking, contemplating, delighting, calming, stimulating things could have been created and brought with the same money, blood, sweat and tears.
who cares?
I mean, if people ate ramen and drank water and PBR, instead of good food and booze, they could donate the money saved to "artists", to bring more stuff as described (I'm not picking on you, Canoe, just using your well written post to make my point to all negatives).
What about all the money people spend on costumes and extraneous stuff?
How, does anyone judge how others spend their time and money, and what they feel is "art"?
For a bunch of "radical inclusionists", I sure hear a lot of "well, I think it's dumb, so it should not be there" talk.....
Really? WTAF? Judgy McJudgersons!
You don't have to like a thing, for it to be "art"......you don't have to agree, for it to be allowed. It's either an open venue, or not.....who's going to start judging what is "art"? Step on up.
.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Ratty » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:03 am

^^ Exactly ^^
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Pictures or it didn't happen Greycoyote

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by 666isMONEY » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:20 am

Art, music, engineering plus shade!

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by BBadger » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:29 pm

It's not as if the money and resources thrown at that project would have or could have directly translated into other projects. People donated and people put their time into that particular project.

Maybe people wouldn't have put such efforts into many smaller projects, as compared to the grand single one. A space program is going to capture a lot more imagination than, say, building low-income housing. Sure, the latter might even be a more equitable use of funds, but is more like an endless task rather than one single achievement that can be appreciated.

Plus, nothing is stopping people from raising the funds, and putting the effort, time, and energy into other art projects in the same manner that the people behind the 747 did. It's your project to seek out funds and build and bring, not just wish that such things could be transferred over or divided out of a different project.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by maladroit » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:47 am

We have a lot of people here saying basically "give them credit for pulling off a huge thing, it's hard, what did YOU do" but...
Gerlach residents and camp members from District, Mayan Warrior, Pathogen Trackers, DPW, HEAT, Peik Trucking, Sunbelt and numerous other groups all gave time and resources to complete the plane move and restore the access point off playa.
Big Imagination didn't do it either. They fucked up and people from the community bailed them out (instead of the missing 500 people in their camp?). The community members that helped them should be praised, but we always praise people who scoop up other people's shit off the playa while still calling out the people who fucked up and couldn't manage their own MOOP.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by lucky420 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:29 am

maladroit wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:47 am
We have a lot of people here saying basically "give them credit for pulling off a huge thing, it's hard, what did YOU do" but...
Gerlach residents and camp members from District, Mayan Warrior, Pathogen Trackers, DPW, HEAT, Peik Trucking, Sunbelt and numerous other groups all gave time and resources to complete the plane move and restore the access point off playa.
Big Imagination didn't do it either. They fucked up and people from the community bailed them out (instead of the missing 500 people in their camp?). The community members that helped them should be praised, but we always praise people who scoop up other people's shit off the playa while still calling out the people who fucked up and couldn't manage their own MOOP.
This ^^
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Ratty » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:04 am





People are so ....40 peeps shared the 747, (not because they liked it.) Only 8 people shared this beautiful starry night taken during build week. Beauty and the Beast. The Beast only because it's for formidable.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:10 pm

I want to address some of the comments that followed my last one, but I haven't got time right now.

But I am posting as I had a thought that maybe those that parked the 747 out there may want to check if it matters.
  • As a kid, around many airplanes, I'd often help ground the aircraft (ran a wire to ground point in the tarmac or hanger floor) so there wasn't a spark that could start it on fire; it would ground out instead.
  • So with a rather large conductive metal structure,
    with a large surface area,
    pointy bits here and there,
    and blowing dust for a priming static charge,
    sitting sticking up relatively high on largely flat ground,
    with the thundercells that do blow through,
    (I can't tell from the one photo I've seen) has or should that beast be grounded?
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by XPTom » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:14 pm

Grounding is never a bad idea, but given that the fuel, engine oil, hydraulic, oxygen systems....etc are long gone the risk is reduced
How many old burners does it take to change a light bulb? Just one to change the bulb..... and five more to reminisce how good the old bulb was....

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Canoe » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:16 pm

LOL

I'm thinking of lightning.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:23 pm

It’s off the fucking playa and you people still aren’t happy.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by lucky420 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:47 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:23 pm
It’s off the fucking playa and you people still aren’t happy.

That’s funny coming from you Captain Crabby Pants :wink: :lol:
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Lonesomebri » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:19 pm

The Venn Diagram of those saying "who cares?" and "it didn't affect your Burn" for the 747 is a damn near eclipse with those past pnp apologists who used to say "who cares?" and "how does that affect your Burn?"
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:55 pm

That sounds like a clever statement but it doesn’t hold water.
The plane was built by real burners, not getting paid, working hard and doing fine craftsmanship.
Finer than most of you are capable of.
You guys have no idea how much metal fab happened to make it work.
It’s not like some rich guy waved a bank card and there it was.

Plug and play camps are an entirely different thing, they exist so that some rich guy can wave a bank card and there everything is.

Sorry to have to sound so crabby but there’s so much BS in here.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by maladroit » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:42 pm

Maybe you don't know what we're capable of, and have done. Maybe we're speaking from the experience of planning both the install and removal of our stuff, and identifying our gaps in knowledge so that we can ask experts.

They whined about a one-week notice from BLM, but that was such huge BS given that it took them a whole month to get the plane off the playa. Don't ask me to suck their bullshit from a straw when I know they have big money and I know they had paid employees in their camp.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:16 am

Well that’s funny I know the guys who built the plane weren’t paid employees... but I’m talking about the plane itself not the camp.

So, no one has ever gotten bogged in soft playa before? It’s happened to DPW, other private people, even cops. That’s just an excuse to call it “moop” when in fact it was never abandoned and left.

The REAL moop is all the other burners who litter the fuck out of the highways around the playa, and leave shit behind on the playa and DON’T keep working until they get it cleaned up. That’s moop, and it’s done intentionally by lazy-fuck assholes and a whole goddamm lot of people have to work to clean it up.

How many people got up and left, and aren’t gonna clean up their mess at all? And the 747 guys are the biggest moopers ever?

It’s just BS.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Elderberry » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:03 am

I totally agree with the captain. My only complaint is that I wasn't there to have seen it in person! It was an awesome concept.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by maladroit » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:03 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:16 am
The REAL moop is all the other burners who litter the fuck out of the highways around the playa, and leave shit behind on the playa and DON’T keep working until they get it cleaned up. That’s moop, and it’s done intentionally by lazy-fuck assholes and a whole goddamm lot of people have to work to clean it up.
So MOOP is something that you leave on the playa, that other people have to clean up? By their own account, they could not handle it themselves and other people had to come clean it up for them. And it was on the playa just as long after the event as every other piece of MOOP before Resto cleans it up.

If I leave 20 bags of garbage in my camp, come back 3 weeks later to find that Resto has picked most of it up, it never was moop as long as I complain online about how hard it was produce the trash, even harder to carry away my trash, and I always planned to come back for it? Good lifehack there.

All moop leaves the playa eventually. What makes it moop is making someone else clean it up for you. Big Imagination is listing off all the people that helped clean up their mess, and somehow expecting to bask in the reflected selflessness instead of throwing into contrast their own irresponsibility.

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