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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:49 am
by 666isMONEY
They got stuck on the playa and had to be rescued. Shit happens. It's not MOOP. :dead_horse:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:04 am
by DoctorIknow
dead horse.JPG

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:37 am
by Elderberry
Not even close to what happened here. Give it up already and give them their credit due. I'd like to see you bring a plane to Burning Man. Just the fact they conceived the idea is amazing. You can bet that if it's allowed back next year this won't happen.

Even without bringing anything to BM but yourself, how many things did you learn and change after your first burn? Your second? Give it a break already.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:00 pm
by lucky420
:lol: :lol: don’t tell me what to do, you’re not my dad :mrgreen:

And I do agree with maladroit. I don’t really care if it was there one way or the other but they did cause a buzz and people can have their free speech about it. Just like you telling us to knock it off :coffee:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:59 pm
by BBadger
It was a pretty big fuckup not having an adequate plan to get the plane off the playa, the paperwork in order, and the research/testing/surveying/engineering/etc. to ensure that the plane could physically leave (or even enter) the site without much disturbance. Part of that was the BMORG not requiring such preplanning and paperwork, as they hadn't dealt with something on this scale before.

I'm sure future projects of this kind is going to require a lot more hoops, planning documents, engineering approvals, etc. -- essentially filing a complete permit -- to allow such things on the playa again. The event is ever changing as people push into uncharted territory.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:09 pm
by Token
Image

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:27 am
by ygmir
dead horse, indeed.
but, some people just like to complain. Doesn't matter what it's about, it makes them feel important or smart or something, to say what others "did wrong" and how the complainers would do things differently, and because it's them, "better".
Effort is real. Art, well, is very subjective. I've always understood (especially at TTITD), that if you do it, and call it art, it's art. There are some pretty janky, stupid, whatever, things out there, IMHO......but, well, if they like it, then yay, again, IMHO.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:40 am
by unjonharley
ygmir wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:27 am
dead horse, indeed.
but, some people just like to complain. Doesn't matter what it's about, it makes them feel important or smart or something, to say what others "did wrong" and how the complainers would do things differently, and because it's them, "better".
Effort is real. Art, well, is very subjective. I've always understood (especially at TTITD), that if you do it, and call it art, it's art. There are some pretty janky, stupid, whatever, things out there, IMHO......but, well, if they like it, then yay, again, IMHO.
Plus 1

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:48 am
by lucky420
:lol: :lol: everyone complaining about the dead horse while beating the dead horse...

:lol: dead

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:24 pm
by Captain Goddammit
Of course, YOU’D have pulled all this off without the slightest glitch.
You would have known about the unforeseen property line issue, and you’d have accurately predicted the hardness of the playa along the entire route.
You wouldn’t have done what these guys did, which apparently was go home and leave others to do it all for them like the people who leave all the trash and moop.

Isn’t that right.

What have you ever brought to the playa again? Some beer and a tent? I forget...

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:46 pm
by Canoe
BBadger wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:59 pm
... I'm sure future projects of this kind is going to require a lot more hoops, planning documents, engineering approvals, etc. -- essentially filing a complete permit -- to allow such things on the playa again. The event is ever changing as people push into uncharted territory.
I believe that is the direction of the real concern.
Expressed differently, given the size of the oversight, impact of the change in storage location, size of the required 'rescue', potential impact to the playa had a rescue failed, potential impact to Burning Man had a rescue failed, etc., these become questions regarding future projects, their plans and contingency plans, for the Org, BLM and future projects.
  • What will be required in the future:
    • by the Org
    • by BLM
    • others?
  • What will define "projects of this kind" or will there be more sweeping requirements as a burden/playa-protecting-precaution for "lessor"/simpler projects?
  • Damage/Cleanup performance bond?
  • What will even be allowed in future?
  • (will the 747 be allowed back? They've discovered, hence they have demonstrated what's required now and can arrange to have it in place...)
  • etc..

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:59 pm
by Ratty
Can we talk about 'Embrace' for a minute? It was beautiful art and a bit elitist. It was a huge fail as far as rules, problems and waste of manpower. Did the rules change after that?

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:40 am
by lucky420
Throw that straw man onto the fire too... :lol:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am
by ygmir
I wonder how much of all the complaining, comes from the narcissistic viewpoint of: "If I don't like it, it's not worthy", and to justify the attitude, people tear it apart related to minutiae , that would easily pass on things they "like" and therefore deem worthy?
I'm just struggling, hearing so many people who spout love of art, free expression, radical inclusion, embracing the "weird", (and embrace "non judgemetalism"), turn on this like a pack of jackals.
It's sort of a "pack mentality" where they want to agree with others in their circles, so jump on the bandwagon, just to be with the cool kids.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:30 am
by unjonharley
The project is down on the ground .. Just right for a good kicking .. Keep kicking it while it's down ... That's the chicken shit way.. Isn't it ?

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:19 am
by Dr Helix
I doubt seriously if there would have been near the discussion this generated if it hadn't been for the issues regarding it leaving the playa. Minor grumbling sure, but the whole thing exploded once the difficulties in getting it gone surfaced. That's how this thread started before it blew up into where we are now. Ah, thread drift.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:43 pm
by Token
ygmir wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am

I'm just struggling, hearing so many people who spout love of art, free expression, radical inclusion, embracing the "weird", (and embrace "non judgemetalism"), turn on this like a pack of jackals.
Aren’t you caught in an endless loop of criticizing the critics for being critical?

You can’t adjudicate opinions.

It’s all a different version of the old arguments; Ravers, RVs, Kids, blah blah blah. They all ruined Burning Man.

The only logical conclusion to these - Radical Inclusion was a mistake. ;)

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:50 pm
by lucky420
ygmir wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am
I wonder how much of all the complaining, comes from the narcissistic viewpoint of: "If I don't like it, it's not worthy", and to justify the attitude, people tear it apart related to minutiae , that would easily pass on things they "like" and therefore deem worthy?
I'm just struggling, hearing so many people who spout love of art, free expression, radical inclusion, embracing the "weird", (and embrace "non judgemetalism"), turn on this like a pack of jackals.
It's sort of a "pack mentality" where they want to agree with others in their circles, so jump on the bandwagon, just to be with the cool kids.
You talkin to me (said in DeNero voice)? I just like poking you all with my stick :mrgreen:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:31 am
by unjonharley
lucky420 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:50 pm
ygmir wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am
I wonder how much of all the complaining, comes from the narcissistic viewpoint of: "If I don't like it, it's not worthy", and to justify the attitude, people tear it apart related to minutiae , that would easily pass on things they "like" and therefore deem worthy?
I'm just struggling, hearing so many people who spout love of art, free expression, radical inclusion, embracing the "weird", (and embrace "non judgemetalism"), turn on this like a pack of jackals.
It's sort of a "pack mentality" where they want to agree with others in their circles, so jump on the bandwagon, just to be with the cool kids.
You talkin to me (said in DeNero voice)? I just like poking you all with my stick :mrgreen:
If the phoo shits .. you wear it..

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:43 am
by lucky420
unjonharley wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:31 am
lucky420 wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:50 pm
ygmir wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am
I wonder how much of all the complaining, comes from the narcissistic viewpoint of: "If I don't like it, it's not worthy", and to justify the attitude, people tear it apart related to minutiae , that would easily pass on things they "like" and therefore deem worthy?
I'm just struggling, hearing so many people who spout love of art, free expression, radical inclusion, embracing the "weird", (and embrace "non judgemetalism"), turn on this like a pack of jackals.
It's sort of a "pack mentality" where they want to agree with others in their circles, so jump on the bandwagon, just to be with the cool kids.
You talkin to me (said in DeNero voice)? I just like poking you all with my stick :mrgreen:
If the phoo shits .. you wear it..
I don’t even know what the fuck that means... :roll:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:58 am
by Ratty
Lucky, If the shoe fits, wear it.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:58 pm
by lucky420
Well who the fuck would wear shoes that don’t fit?

Yeah, I own my shit so not sure what he’s spouting on about but okayyyyyyy

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:59 pm
by Lonesomebri
Ha, sure, all the cool kids against the "art" that wasn't... What a complete reversal of reality. Don't you guys have some DJ to go praise?

What level of narcissism makes people whining about others opinions think they are somehow not being critical? The same level that turns rent a cops into art critic critics.

So according to this b.s., if you aren't into doing the biggest thing possible to get the most attention possible, you're a narcissist? So ads backwards. What kind of gaslighting is that?

Peak narcissism. Kinda like that plane....

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:34 pm
by GroundStart
splendid.png
Lonesomebri wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:59 pm
So according to this b.s., if you aren't into doing the biggest thing possible to get the most attention possible, you're a narcissist? So ads backwards. What kind of gaslighting is that?
That is, kind of a way to put the old-fangled Latin jargon I snuck in several pages ago. The low hanging fruit was preferred, it's true that I don't own cattle, but the argument is that an idea is not credible because an unrelated idea exists.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:10 pm
by Canoe
Dead?
Unfortunately not.
  • There's the various exit/removal/rescue issues that rose their head, etc., etc., that it attracted attention, and as in the press and elsewhere, the possibility, even expectation, of consequences in the future.
    • Hope the powers-that-be keep in mind that in the end what's required was worked out and it was implemented by various Burning Man based resources,
    • and specifically for that project, they can arrange to have the now known necessary resources in place and planned for in subsequent years.
  • Then there's will it survive where it is, without interference and/or weather creating a cleanup or other problem. Observed behaviours in the past don't have me overly hopefully, but hopefully the full-time caretaker mentioned will keep it safe.
  • And then there's various personal feeling or thoughts about the project coming to the playa.
    (Personally, it set the new standard for meh (there's gotta be things more meh, but I draw a blank when I try to think of them); but then I remembered it's a nice tall viewing platform, so I certainly have to give it that...)
  • And also personally (since I'm posting I'll add it again), I wonder what all those resources (money, blood, sweat & tears) could have brought to the playa.
So, are we going to see meaningful discussion in a thread with so many diverse topics within a topic, along with diverse opinions (and feelings) (with the chance the powers or project may pick a point out somewhere that helps), or is it - along with the various valid criticisms - now just the cutest or snarkiest comment or graphic wins.
We've certainly done that before.
.
th_popcorncat.gif
th_popcorncat.gif (16.78 KiB) Viewed 2928 times

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:25 am
by BBadger
After having brought more and more of the plane each year, I believe what was brought this year represents the final scope of the project.

While I'm sure they'll want to bring it back, and that it was quite a feat to bring it, I kind of want to see them either do more with it or not bring it back. Yup, they brought a big plane. Awesome. But it's like a presale ticket: now the initial novelty factor in bringing something that big to the playa is used up and it's basically an unmutated base vehicle, even if it is a 747.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:58 am
by Bless
BBadger wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:25 am
it's basically an unmutated base vehicle
If they bring it back again, it should be radically mutated :mrgreen:

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 am
by Canoe
BBadger wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:25 am
... I kind of want to see them either do more with it or not bring it back. ...
Sounds great, but given 2018's events, perhaps it may be better to bring it back pretty much as it is, to keep the round-trip to/at/from BRC as simple and straightforward as possible? Demonstrate to the powers-that-be that with the requirements now fully known, the yearly round-trip is low risk and manageable.
Keep the scope of 2019 enhancements - if any - simple & easy?

With a multi-year effort to bring it to the playa, they want to spend BM 2019 enjoying it before putting more into it. And they'll have to expend more money, sweat & tears just to have a 2019 round trip anyways.

And we don't know what expenses were incurred given the unexpected resources required. They may not have the funds to return in 2019, but have to skip a year.

As 'big' or 'a plane', I find it utterly meh (perhaps I've flown too much), but it is nice to have an elevated playa-viewing platform.

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:43 am
by Token
What we really need is a second 747 identical to the one already there so they can join them ass-end to ballast the thing and make the worlds biggest teeter-totter.

Load it up, get the rave going, retract both nose wheels half way. Let the party rage!

Dramamine for everyone!!!

Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:33 pm
by tatonka
Image