Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

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GroundStart
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by GroundStart » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:19 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:43 pm
No one seems to have a problem with boats or couches or carpets being MVs, why not planes?
What is the interest in that thing besides it being big? It's a boring, resource taxing, destructive burden.
Boats and couches don't cruise deserts in default world. Big planes get pulled around the ground all the time. Big planes even land in the desert, and! do so without getting stuck. The plane is not original.
"But doing a lot of work > originality! You're being a pratt, and-"
No, history is littered with things which took a lot of work, that were bad ideas and least forgivable, weren't original. Every Burn forum defends the plane with "lots of work", "what'd YOU bring" or "walk a mile in their shoes". Cut it out, those are the worst arguments ever.
Sit still. I'll have a original (...to me) idea in ten seconds.
Ok. Everyone cover their nuts, girls too, because the playa is going nuclear.
Build the top horizontal 1/4th of a submarine, on a concealed drivetrain that I can't bother to imagine. Scale reduced, we've had enough "big 1:1 thing" for now. But have recessed decking on top, so people can stand in it and get their drink'on. Safety railings, issue LED trim with emphasis on navigation lights (like a boat), climbable conning tower. Obligatory rave kit but if someone moops it plays the chorus of Donovan's "Atlantis" on loop until cleaned up.
A taxiing plane is a taxiing plane, just. Meanwhile the idea here is that while the boat's cruising around, from a distance, it looks like it's partially submerged in the playa. Thus we only need submarine topmost bits that stick out of the water. Call it the "Scarlet September" (all drinks must involve vodka), "Lonely Diver", "The Wet Spot" or something*. Boom, grant application. Also j/k.
A nuclear submarine for land deployment. Are you less than wowed? Well that's all you get for ten seconds. But is it an ordinary, sanitary, unoriginal thing you can see at any airport? Only as much as a boat or couch would be.

* does the plane have a name?

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by motskyroonmatick » Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:17 pm

Canoe wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:51 pm
motskyroonmatick wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:48 pm
... I know right where it is and want to visit it in the late spring to see how shot up it gets...
I take it the 'owners' aren't familiar with rural.
At least there's bound to be some that hit low and let the water drain out that gets in from the higher holes. Wonder if it already has some drain holes.
I don't think the owners are familiar with Rural at all. To many It will look like a huge road sign or junk car just waiting to be shot up. It wont take a whole lot to seriously cripple even that big of a thing. How much does a complete replacement set of tires and rims cost?.....
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:01 am

A 747 has 16 rear tires and two up front. They’re roughly $2000 each but aren’t readily available, they are made in batches according to sales of the airplane and projected need and for the most part get retreaded rather than replaced.
Arranging for 18 tires to be removed and remounted onto a 747 on a soft surface in the middle of nowhere is my prediction for why the 747 probably won’t ever roll in BRC again.
I’ll bet a hefty sum that plane hasn’t got a single window or tire that isn’t shot out by next year as well as a fuselage riddled with bullet holes.

As much as I respect and admire the effort that went into this big MV, the owner is clearly naive about what will happen to such a thing left unattended in tbe middle of that desert for a year.

For all you MV haters, at least you can rejoice in that it’s extremely unlikely to survive the year of storage out there.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:07 am

GroundStart wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:19 pm
Captain Goddammit wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:43 pm
No one seems to have a problem with boats or couches or carpets being MVs, why not planes?
What is the interest in that thing besides it being big? It's a boring, resource taxing, destructive burden.
Boats and couches don't cruise deserts in default world. Big planes get pulled around the ground all the time. Big planes even land in the desert, and! do so without getting stuck. The plane is not original.
"But doing a lot of work > originality! You're being a pratt, and-"
No, history is littered with things which took a lot of work, that were bad ideas and least forgivable, weren't original. Every Burn forum defends the plane with "lots of work", "what'd YOU bring" or "walk a mile in their shoes". Cut it out, those are the worst arguments ever.
Sit still. I'll have a original (...to me) idea in ten seconds.
Ok. Everyone cover their nuts, girls too, because the playa is going nuclear.
Build the top horizontal 1/4th of a submarine, on a concealed drivetrain that I can't bother to imagine. Scale reduced, we've had enough "big 1:1 thing" for now. But have recessed decking on top, so people can stand in it and get their drink'on. Safety railings, issue LED trim with emphasis on navigation lights (like a boat), climbable conning tower. Obligatory rave kit but if someone moops it plays the chorus of Donovan's "Atlantis" on loop until cleaned up.
A taxiing plane is a taxiing plane, just. Meanwhile the idea here is that while the boat's cruising around, from a distance, it looks like it's partially submerged in the playa. Thus we only need submarine topmost bits that stick out of the water. Call it the "Scarlet September" (all drinks must involve vodka), "Lonely Diver", "The Wet Spot" or something*. Boom, grant application. Also j/k.
A nuclear submarine for land deployment. Are you less than wowed? Well that's all you get for ten seconds. But is it an ordinary, sanitary, unoriginal thing you can see at any airport? Only as much as a boat or couch would be.

* does the plane have a name?
So is that what you're going to build?
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 am

GroundStart you do a lot of speaking for an event you’ve never even attended.
Almost every MV is “unoriginal” in concept. You name it, some version of it has probably been done. Even other airplanes. Hell I even did one back in ‘01, the “Playa Flya”. It was much, much smaller though.
Last edited by Captain Goddammit on Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:49 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 am
GroundStart you do a lot of speaking for an event you’ve never even been to.
Probably just an idea man. You know, "I have given you this great IDEA out of my head. Now go make it so, and I will take credit for it." All hat and no cattle most likely.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by XPTom » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:14 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:01 am
A 747 has 16 rear tires and two up front.......


Note in the video Ratty posted the two front tires it previously had are now 4. They didn't get this far without doing a few things right. Someone gave thought to the nose weight issue. A little ballast aft of the mains, some matts, maybe even tinker slightly with little less pressure in the aft main struts, and the nose may be more playa friendly. Lot of negativity here, but I'm still rooting for the guys with the neat airplane
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:20 am

But that’s with air in them... I’m rooting for them too, some are my friends, but the storage plan of letting it fend for itself on the gun range, uh, I mean desert looks pretty suicidal!
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by XPTom » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am

Unfortunately you may be right about the bullet holes...… It is also regrettable that few graffiti artists are actually artists...
How many old burners does it take to change a light bulb? Just one to change the bulb..... and five more to reminisce how good the old bulb was....

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Token » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:41 am

This is why there is a long standing tradition of building real big stuff out of wood.

You know, immediacy, temporary and all that blather.

Much has been lost from the Temporary Autonomous Zone concept.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:51 am

Token wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:41 am
This is why there is a long standing tradition of building real big stuff out of wood.

You know, immediacy, temporary and all that blather.

Much has been lost from the Temporary Autonomous Zone concept.
If you are referencing art, one of the reasons is that playa art has become a commodity in the default world. Cities, Developers, etc have mandates for art in their planning and many are looking to BM for pieces they could use. Three of our penny projects (Penny the Goose, Ursa Major, and Ursa Mater) are installed either on a temporary or permanent basis in cities across the country. Other artists are doing the same. So when you think about making something that will burn out there or something that survives and could even thrive post Burn, it becomes an easy call to make.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by gaminwench » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:30 pm

Yes, Dr., but no one is going to want a gutted, bullethole-ridden 747 plane carcass in their town square as 'art'.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:40 pm

gaminwench wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:30 pm
Yes, Dr., but no one is going to want a gutted, bullethole-ridden 747 plane carcass in their town square as 'art'.
I understand. I was only referencing art. I believe the 747 was classified as an MV.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by burner von braun » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:45 pm

Image

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by gaminwench » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:33 pm

Actually, I believe the DMV said no to this as an MV; it was classified as 'mobile (ha!) art'.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:37 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:51 pm
It was physically too large to take through the line, but yes it did have to get a DMV MV license.
Well this came from the Captain so I'm going to go with MV.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by GroundStart » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:01 pm

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 am
GroundStart you do a lot of speaking for an event you’ve never even attended.
Almost every MV is “unoriginal” in concept. You name it, some version of it has probably been done.
Super: I'll note to speak less until attending said event that allows me to speak here.
What are you saying though? Nothings original anymore, so dump default world things on the playa? And strand them there? Good then, that I don't have to build or create anything new, because I am:
Dr Helix wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:49 am
Probably just an idea man. You know, "I have given you this great IDEA out of my head. Now go make it so, and I will take credit for it." All hat and no cattle most likely.
Well. If you've got to put words in my mouth, I prefer them be in iambic pentameter.
Quick to boil types might now blurt out everything they've built, as some rebuttal. But if your best game is to argue to the person, and all you know of my person is art bickering on a forum, I can leave you to play with yourself. Game on.

I stand by my points. The plane is an stock chunk. The crew, who did a lot of doing, created nothing new, at the expense and risk of everything. It hasn't upheld the principals. Somebody call it an art car again, and confirm my fear that the bar has dropped that low.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm

GroundStart wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:01 pm
Captain Goddammit wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:44 am
GroundStart you do a lot of speaking for an event you’ve never even attended.
Almost every MV is “unoriginal” in concept. You name it, some version of it has probably been done.
Super: I'll note to speak less until attending said event that allows me to speak here.
What are you saying though? Nothings original anymore, so dump default world things on the playa? And strand them there? Good then, that I don't have to build or create anything new, because I am:
Dr Helix wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:49 am
Probably just an idea man. You know, "I have given you this great IDEA out of my head. Now go make it so, and I will take credit for it." All hat and no cattle most likely.
Well. If you've got to put words in my mouth, I prefer them be in iambic pentameter.
Quick to boil types might now blurt out everything they've built, as some rebuttal. But if your best game is to argue to the person, and all you know of my person is art bickering on a forum, I can leave you to play with yourself. Game on.

I stand by my points. The plane is an stock chunk. The crew, who did a lot of doing, created nothing new, at the expense and risk of everything. It hasn't upheld the principals. Somebody call it an art car again, and confirm my fear that the bar has dropped that low.
Hey, whatever you think of the 747 is your business. I never talked to that. And I'm dying to see the submarine you touted. Say like next year when you come to the Burn for the first time. Good luck.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Ratty » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:24 pm

Groundstart, Welcome to eplaya and please build the sub. It would be a great MV. Day and night license guaranteed , (as long as you can light it up). Now... where the hell is that 'drunk posting' thread?
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by 666isMONEY » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:35 pm

Wherever they park it, it wouldn't be hard to find a caretaker to live in it, I'd love to spend a winter near the playa!

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:45 pm

Living through winter on a high altitude desert in a cut-wide-open aluminum can with zero amenities is something you might wanna think a little harder about.
Not to mention people probably shooting at it!
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by GroundStart » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:58 pm

Dr Helix wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:09 pm
And I'm dying to see the submarine you touted. Say like next year when you come to the Burn for the first time. Good luck.
Oh: encouragement twice to the "idea guy", for something I never wrote that I'd build.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Captain Goddammit » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:15 pm

The bar has dropped? You clearly have no clue about art cars in BRC.
The bar used to be lower than whale shit on the ocean floor.
The zero-effort junk that used to roll around is nothing like the big plane MV.
Its easy to armchair-criticize the things people build and bring when you’ve built and brought nothing, and yes, that does drop your credibility lower than a snake's ass in a wagon rut.
Sure they’re having a hard time tugging the thing but it’s gonna be on private property, it’s not being “left on the playa” like your kind keeps farting, er, I mean saying.
(Sorry, when words and gasses come out of the same orifice it’s hard to keep them straight).
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:30 pm

Big Imagination = Reverse Choco-Tacogate

Big Imagination took a risk and is on the verge of failure. Their upside risk was the satisfaction and accolades they have received. They are experiencing some of the downside risk in the extra cost in trying to move it to high ground.

The problem which shoulda-coulda been anticipated is that the downside risk is unfortunately falling on the BLM, the BORG and us.

First, this is a huge unscheduled time sink for the BLM. I'm guessing they are committed to getting it off the playa in a week or two, before the rain. So they are going to have to report they have a problem up their management chain and are going to be monitored daily from the top of their management chain. They are going to have to find a commercial business that can remove it fast or ask for help from the DOD.

If the BLM removes it, someone has to cover the cost. The Imagination LLC can simply declare bankruptcy, which would draw the BORG in under strict liability. What would be the cost for the DOD to cut it up and Chinook it out? If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

Worst case, even though the BORG and the BLM don't want to kill the golden goose, the upper level of the BLM management chain are unpredictable political appointees/electee.

Perhaps in the future, large art will require a bond. The BORG is probably going to have to renegotiate insurance coverage, change the art contracts to cover weird situations and change a lot of department processes. We are going to have to pay for all of that.

So personally I hope Imagination can get this moved! It probably weighs like 24 tons, maybe 15-20psi contact force? Hope heavy equipment experts like the Capt are advising them.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by XPTom » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:28 pm

SSE Interesting guess on the weight. It's empty weight on the ramp when operable was probably 175T. Minus the outer wings, engines, tail.... etc …. I'm guessing 70T in current form. I wonder if anybody can validate our guesses?
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by motskyroonmatick » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:52 pm

I'm taking that since there is no new news and no pictures or video coming out in recent days means there is bad news.

I don't know if the BLM wont allow real heavy equipment on the Playa outside of the burn but.... It seems to me a large but not ludicrous large crawler with a drawbar and winch, 2 Track hoes that can easily lift and place 20' x 8' one inch metal jump sheets(the kind with the lifting device that screws in to the middle) and a couple handy hands could get that thing rolling at at least 100 feet per hour after developing a routine.

Yeah it's expensive to rent and get delivered 3 low boys of equipment and 15 jump plates for a couple days work. It might be overkill for what would actually be needed to traverse the terrain but success is worth it. Going all out to get the job done and a difficulty behind you is worth it. We did it all the time in underground construction when we ran in to trouble.
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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Token » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:10 am

Pyramids at Giza were built from 10 ton limestone blocks on a surface just as soft if not softer.

We know for sure that they had rope.

Let that big imagination go wild!

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Ratty » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:40 am

Those aren't buttermilk biscuits I'm lying on Savannah

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by alt12 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:44 am

Just a little perspective in this 747 "Art project"


https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/25/the-d ... -vc-funds/


"That same article noted in its intro that “It is not every day that someone buys a Boeing 747 as a gift. But that was exactly what Jonathan Teo did last year, when he gathered a group of Silicon Valley tech titans to purchase a used plane and donated it to Burning Man, an annual experimental art festival held in Black Rock Desert, Nevada.” Burning Man may well be one of the most inter-connected events for all of these folks)."

The 36-year-old co-founder and managing partner of Silicon Valley venture capital firm Binary Capital says of his generous endowment: “We thought, ‘Could we create a gift to the Burning Man community that’s so large it has to be worked on by multiple groups and can be enjoyed by everyone?”

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/25/the-d ... -vc-funds/

Wow, how generous of him! Yep this is Burning Man now.

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Re: Biggest MOOP in the history of Burning Man

Post by Dr Helix » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:04 am

So...........is it still out there? Looked for Sept 26 updates but didn't find any.
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