Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from people

Theme camps and villages are the interactive core of Burning Man. This is the place to announce and discuss camp and village plans for Burning Man 2019.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:54 pm

“further legal remedies”


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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:31 pm

Surely their international clientele wouldn't want to get mixed up with these so-called "legal remedies" back here in the States...
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by some seeing eye » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:48 pm

Jackass wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:31 pm
Surely their international clientele wouldn't want to get mixed up with these so-called "legal remedies" back here in the States...
Wow. Yep.

For completeness, look up contracts of adhesion. Sometimes they are invalidated by courts. But courts are court$ expensive to pursue. The power player in the contract counts on that.

BTW consult your attorney (I'm not one!) on the contract of adhesion with your ticket. Ticket issuers AKAtheBORG may have some fierce attorneys on retainer.

No idea of the law relating to copyright of contracts and NDA - state by state?

Some would say that the PlaySkool contact is a contract of adhesion.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by ItalyPlaya » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:02 pm

Altahoe wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:34 pm
BM Theme Camp Organizers FB page admins......nice job. I posted one of the two original posts and they pulled both. They pulled my post by eliminating me from the group. I received zero notice or an explanation why I was removed from the page. This is very disappointing. All I did was ask a question on Mario's behalf (whomever that really is) from his story posted here on eplaya. I was never uncivil or crude as some members including Jon "Janus" from playaskool were. After 3-4 days of lies, deception and spin, I stopped following the thread that I started. I feared it was not going to stop until it was going to sour my future burns. It was clear that the top two playaskool camp leaders weren't going to give a straight answer and only attack everyone. Attack and deflect.....sounds familiar. He had nothing to say except call Mario a "chicken shit flake". I wonder if Mario's aka is required because of the Non Disclosure Agreement that skool campers sign. Really? A non disclosure agreement to join a plug & play camp. Are the books not in satisfactory order? Several page members threw that idea around. He stated, it was none of our business and we are not part of his community. I thought we are all in the same community. I get the feeling he thinks he's the next Fyre Festival guy. Finally, at the end of several days of deflection, I told him he's trying run a Waldorf Astoria in our city and he's nothing but a "timeshare salesman". I'm all about capitalism and making a buck, but I thought this was our safe zone.....our no fly zone. Hell, we even had Trippi Longstocking (head placer) re-quoted (with permission) about the different ongoing online threads (playaskool). The admins for Theme Camp Organizers need to grow a sack. Just a wee bit of cowardice. Bottom line I joined Burner Man Theme Camp Organizers to learn how do things right. Instead, I was taught a few new ways to turn a profit....putting it nicely.

ps- can't wait for this post to be taken down. :roll:
Hearing about the discussions in that FB Forum I could unfortunately not be part of: I am sad to say that Playaskool leadership is attacking me in public and calling me those things. Shows of their poor character. One of the leaders then further named another person who camped with them, who is not me, saying we are the same person, an act of defamation. Ironically, most of their own so called community in US and Europe are fully against them behind their backs and Playaskool leadership does not realise - understandable, as in the end they all got taken money from.

This discussion and other mean comments in here in no way affected me and I am happy to be the one blamed if I can make a change and unveil unjust and greedy behaviour towards the BMORG by them reading these forums, the beloved BM community and Playaskool's former campers.

Some legal remarks and summary of where we stand:

Playaskool asked in the google registration form if you stay for strike or not. Even when answered "no", they then blames these same people for not staying for strike and that they are responsible for the yellow score the camp received and takes their moop deposit regardless - If you are months before aware (and even asking them) people can't stay for strike, don't blame them and especially don't steal from them. (I can provide screenshots of that registration form if there is doubt).

Another good point I got advised on - the invitation/contract for his camp says: "This MOOP Deposit or Matter Out of Place Deposit is your guarantee that you will Leave NO trace in your personal space AND will guarantee that the entire camp receive ALL GREEN in our final assessment for Leave No Trace."
He still did not get a green score - hence violated his own term and promise and has no basis for keeping the deposit as it was not used to obtain that Green score. All evidence speaks for the obvious.

Summary:
The Community learnt a lesson on how NOT to do it. This will make things hopefully more clear for other camps and future campers in regards to such moop deposit or questionable policies and greedy behaviours.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:00 am

ItalyPlaya wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:02 pm
Hearing about the discussions in that FB Forum I could unfortunately not be part of: I am sad to say that Playaskool leadership is attacking me in public and calling me those things. Shows of their poor character. One of the leaders then further named another person who camped with them, who is not me, saying we are the same person, an act of defamation. Ironically, most of their own so called community in US and Europe are fully against them behind their backs and Playaskool leadership does not realise - understandable, as in the end they all got taken money from.

This discussion and other mean comments in here in no way affected me and I am happy to be the one blamed if I can make a change and unveil unjust and greedy behaviour towards the BMORG by them reading these forums, the beloved BM community and Playaskool's former campers.

Some legal remarks and summary of where we stand:

Playaskool asked in the google registration form if you stay for strike or not. Even when answered "no", they then blames these same people for not staying for strike and that they are responsible for the yellow score the camp received and takes their moop deposit regardless - If you are months before aware (and even asking them) people can't stay for strike, don't blame them and especially don't steal from them. (I can provide screenshots of that registration form if there is doubt).

Another good point I got advised on - the invitation/contract for his camp says: "This MOOP Deposit or Matter Out of Place Deposit is your guarantee that you will Leave NO trace in your personal space AND will guarantee that the entire camp receive ALL GREEN in our final assessment for Leave No Trace."
He still did not get a green score - hence violated his own term and promise and has no basis for keeping the deposit as it was not used to obtain that Green score. All evidence speaks for the obvious.

Summary:
The Community learnt a lesson on how NOT to do it. This will make things hopefully more clear for other camps and future campers in regards to such moop deposit or questionable policies and greedy behaviours.
Bravo Mario. All has been said.

We will do RV free camping with a group of NY burners this year. You are happily invited. Do not have DGS option, otherwise would have happily given you one for the valuable spark and contribution. :P
Last edited by stephaniegrafton on Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Ratty » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:21 am

stephanie your mind wanders in funny ways. That's a not-so-fine idea. You can buy Mario a ticket in the main sale. Designated tickets are a reward for a camps stellar participation last year. You can't give DGS tickets away to strangers as rewards. Someone in the camp will need it.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:28 am

Ratty wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:21 am
stephanie your mind wanders in funny ways. That's a not-so-fine idea. You can buy Mario a ticket in the main sale. Designated tickets are a reward for a camps stellar participation last year. You can't give DGS tickets away to strangers as rewards. Someone in the camp will need it.
I was merely joking. Totally understand the DGS purpose. OK, we will reward him with all week drinks at ours then :D :coffee: :coffee:

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:09 am

don’t sue me, this is satire.*

* my lawyer.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:24 am

If you feel that you need to NDA all of your camp paying customers, doesn't that present the question that you know that what you are doing isn't right, shouldn't fly and would be frowned upon?

Besides maybe keeping celebrity types' camping location and extracurricular activities secret, I see no reason for this sort of thing...
Unless your intent is to fuck people over, the community included, and to profit while doing so.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Ratty » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:57 am

I think I'll set up an NDA booth this year. Stop by and fill out a form. Check all boxes that apply. Write any additional info in the space below. We can 100% guarantee that none of your indiscretions/sins will ever be made public.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Sham » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:49 am

Moderator note: As per a request, this topic has been moved over to the 2019 page for further discussion.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:10 am

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Sham » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:51 pm

On a personal note about PnP's in general. So much about Burning Man is missed in both the survival preparation and on playa experience and adventures when you feel the need to let a private group orchestrate and choreograph your entire visit. It's not ClubMed. The spontaneity and immediacy is just not there. You're watching Burning Man though a port hole of a sanitized enclave.

I will tell you that the Burning Man org does not charge for the playa footprint given to camps. A large plot is flagged for the various camps, but it's done at no charge. Paying to park a vehicle (aside from the vehicle pass to get in) or even paying an exorbitant amount for a larger vehicle seems to be a blatant gouging of the attendees.

Planning and executing my own trip to the desert is the best part of Burning Man. Setting up my camping area with equal camp mates and making magic happen is SO much more gratifying than paying someone to cut up my food and chewing it for me--before tucking me into a pre-made bed.

I've been to all inclusive resorts in the Caribbean, and I ended up inside walled enclaves on a beautiful island with open bars and meals cooked for me. It turns out that I missed virtually everything this island had to offer up. I also ended up paying a fortune for this sanitized, cloistered privilege.

I have been attending BM for nearly 2 decades, and I end up paying for airfare, hotel before and after, rental car, food, supplies and a ticket. The bare costs are about $2000.00 for the above things. If you need to add a tent, camping stove, sleeping bag and some shade add $500. That's it! Camp in the open camping area with dozens of other people who you'll be making immediate friends with. Share meals, share shade, share liquor, share stories and share playa adventures. As an added bonus, you'll be making some very nice, lifelong friends that you'll stay in touch with year round. All this for FREE! Yes, the open camping area is closer to the open playa than most PnP's are and you get to travel around freely without being encumbered by stinky camp rules and obligations.

A good 75% of my Burning Man adventure involves interacting with other dusty common folk and adventuring around the playa and dealing with sometimes extreme but fun weather. Nearly all of that is lost when you have a pre-packaged, sanitized coddling at a PnP..

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by maladroit » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:22 pm

Charging camp members something like $15 per square foot of playa is definitely fucked up. That is what happens when you place most of the city and open camping fills up, though. You've made a land resource scarce and then told some people that parts of it are theirs to do as they please. The second-oldest form of commodification.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:35 pm

My take is that they've been commodifying *people*, both their campers and their worker bees, putting monetary value where it has no place in the dust.

And they are shitty neighbors.
After our experience with them, we were told by a placer that 3:00 sector would no longer place PnP camps.
I wonder if this is how we wound up with PnP row on the back streets.

I also wonder how Entheos fared this past year out there. Their front of house was pretty shabby, we went by Wednesday night after the MeetnGreet and it was a HUGE Esplanade swath o' dust with some trampolines in a cage, water cubes with lights inside for deco, and a DJ booth. There was no DJ at the time, 10:30 or so.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:04 pm

We need a HELCO2.0 : Fuck ur PnP

Get Flash or someone to ride the zip line down and blow some shit up!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:26 pm

Jackass wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:04 pm
We need a HELCO2.0 :

back to basics. i love it.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:31 pm

Fire, Suspense, Theater, Drama.

(In that order)
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:12 am

Theater, suspense, fire, drama

(in that order)
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:23 am

you forgot “Sexy Time”

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:43 pm

Sexy time on playa is awesome, but there is so much management around it: cleanliness, privacy, cleanliness again ...
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:20 pm

Repost from Reddit by user yayj on 2 threads:

"Reports today are that Janus and Co. threatened the Org with legal action (?) if the FB Theme Camp Organizers admin didn't remove the two looong discussion threads, as well as removal of Mario's original post/thread on ePlaya.The FB threads went kapoof! before the Org said 'just no' to PlayaSkool's ridiculous demand."

https://bit.ly/2S8IlKz
https://bit.ly/2DQuH5K

My own thoughts on Playaskool:
- How about freedom of speech? Threatening with legal action to remove facts isn't exactly what modern society is all about
- How about addressing the real issue of why you kept 50% of Moop deposits from all people, when you didn't keep the promise tied to the deposit to achieve "green" for the whole camp (see invite)? In the end the BMORG and the whole BM community bears the costs for your yellow score and has to clean up while you keep the money which was supposed to be used for this clean-up.
- How about justifying controversial charges like $150 to park a car on federal land you didn't pay for? Charging $12,000 to park a large RV vs. 8,500 for a small RV? Decommodification is one of the 10 principles!

I got sent the link to the 2018 invite again, showing all those structures. This invite is public information anyway, everybody who inquired to Playaskool received this document, if they stayed or not in the end.

https://gofile.io/?c=H5xbqt

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:34 pm

Altahoe wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:51 am


So, Captain Goddammit,

So, when you post a snarky reply like this directed towards a newbie or group of newbies, what's the point? Do you also kick-train your new puppie long after it did something wrong? Your profile states you camp with "First Camp", so are you the official voice for the org or just someone who ran out of vodka? No one knows what they're getting into the first time around. At the very least, I'm happy a fellow burner brought this matter to our attention. I welcome and hope that he and his friends make the journey back to the desert, take what they/we have learned, and have the time of their lives.
Well you can shit in one hand, and hope in the other...

If you stayed at a camp and used their infrastructure and it didn’t get cleaned up, that’s as much on you as them.
That’s one of the things that go wrong when you ignore the Self Reliance thing like this guy did and support plug & plays.

Nobody who plug & plays at Burning Man should be treated with any respect at all. On the “real burner” scale they’re lower than whale shit on the ocean floor.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:09 am

Mmmm. But if a newbie, who knows no better, is led to believe that buying an all-inclusive resort package is the burner way; do we, as a community, not have a responsibility to respond?
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by TT120 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:08 am

Did PS actually threaten legal action over those threads? Jesus, that is some serious radical entitlement.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:16 am

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by maladroit » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:51 pm

One effect of charging lots of money for seemingly nothing: you filter your clientele to almost exclusively wealthy people. Rubbing elbows and having some small amount of power over VIPs? Narcissists love that shit.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:51 pm

TT120 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:08 am
Did PS actually threaten legal action over those threads? Jesus, that is some serious radical entitlement.
Yes, they did. And the Org shut that shit down, yay.
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by maladroit » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:36 pm

I'm starting to suspect these people don't even have teaching degrees.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by gaminwench » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:07 am

Well, we do know that they cannot spell.

The "TEDxTalks" we heard (in our camp across the keyhole) were so woo-woo laughable that they never actually posted to TEDx.
"the prophecies of doom were better last year" trilo

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