Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from people

Theme camps and villages are the interactive core of Burning Man. This is the place to announce and discuss camp and village plans for Burning Man 2019.
stephaniegrafton
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:16 am

What Mario writes is true 100%.
Long Thread that was just sent to me by a friend. I also camped with Playaskool in 2018 and exactly the same happened to me and all my friends with me. We stayed in RV and lost deposit although leaving spot 150% clean and doing Moop volunteer shifts all week. Nobody wants to open their mouths and thinks it is only 250. But Playaskool is one of the largest camps so total sums are adding up.
I hope Placement will intervene.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:50 am

I love how they really stick it to them with $150 to park their car, as if there's even a charge for that beyond your already over-priced vehicle pass. Those rates rival those of SF, simply fucking ridiculous.

They're gouging people, but one of the problems is that "the people" like it...
Last edited by Jackass on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Altahoe » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:51 am

Captain Goddammit wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:56 am
Italyplaya, YOU are the problem.

YOU are the one who further ruined Burning Man by supporting a plug & play camp.
YOU are the one who left your fucking moop, expecting someone else to clean up after you, paid or not.
YOU are the one who showed up at an event where you are supposed to be self sufficient... radical self reliance and all... using the excuse that “I couldn’t do it unless I flew in and didn’t pay any attention to the fact that I was supposed to be self sufficient”.
ALL of us have to do that, it was YOUR CHOICE to attend an event from so far away, where logistics would be difficult.
Thanks for flying in and leaving your trash on our beautiful land while polluting the culture of a great and unique event.

Nice sob story. Next time wipe your own ass.

So, Captain Goddammit,

So, when you post a snarky reply like this directed towards a newbie or group of newbies, what's the point? Do you also kick-train your new puppie long after it did something wrong? Your profile states you camp with "First Camp", so are you the official voice for the org or just someone who ran out of vodka? No one knows what they're getting into the first time around. At the very least, I'm happy a fellow burner brought this matter to our attention. I welcome and hope that he and his friends make the journey back to the desert, take what they/we have learned, and have the time of their lives.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Traveller in Time » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:09 pm

Placement info Page

Just for completion of some early questions
Dreaming a temporary world improving the default world



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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Ano » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:35 pm

stephaniegrafton wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:16 am

I hope Placement will intervene.
Placement will not intervene. They shouldn't intervene here, even. I will stop going to Burning Man once Placement begins intervening with camps due to internal monetary issues.

This issue is on you and anyone else who is stupid enough to pay a bunch of morons $$$$ to make your Burning Man trip for you. This is your fault. You are the problem. Mario, too, is the problem, YOU. You are solely the problem. Without you, camps like this would not exist. Without customers, these turnkeys would go away. Yet...

Quite frankly, I hate PlayaSkool, but I find this situation hilarious.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Ratty » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:31 pm

Mario, don't feel hurt by the mean comments. Rise above it and become the best burner. Not everyone blames you. We all had a virgin year and made plenty of mistakes.

Ano is right. Placement won't get your money back. They are in charge of doling out spots to camps. If a camp gets too unmanageable, they stop placing them. A lot of folks don't understand how this particular camp gets placed year after year. They always do something to make their neighbors unhappy and it looks like they're not too nice to their members either. With enough complaints/reports they could get exiled to the boondocks and maybe booted out. (Although this year placement claimed the outer ring camping is not a punishment.) Don't give up on ePlaya just because some people have no social graces on line.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by FlyingMonkey » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:32 pm

Don't mistake the Captain's sharp replies for snark. He means everything he says (and doesn't care how you feel) but he is usually spot on. He isn't the only one who has been harsh or rude to a first time poster on ePlaya. (thinking lag-bolt spin handle). Hell, I've been a total Ass on here too. Anyway, I don't come around here much anymore because it's always the same old shit with little value added to my burn. ePlaya was fun maybe 3-4 years ago & I learned a lot here. Now...meh.

But P-N-P camps and the way the BMorg turns a blind eye to them have had a very corrosive affect on Burning Man culture and it's core principals. The man is long dead and never coming back & that's really a shame. Unfortunately the folks running everything have seemingly lost sight of what made the Burn so special in the first place. A victim of it's own success (bound too happen I guess). It's no longer the magical oasis from the default world that it used to be. Now camps are profiting from an event that used to preach Decommodification and for many it's nothing more than an Instagram backdrop.

Italy, I'm sorry about how your virgin burn turned out. You seem like a nice person but as others have said You are were part of the problem. Yeah, it sucks to hear that but thousands of other virgins go to Burning Man every year and do it right. You had choices. Get over it. Your money is gone (Sorry).

I don't hold it against you because I think you know better now. Your tuition at PlayaSkool was excessive but you sure learned a lot. Make sure it wasn't for nothing & pursue this in the correct forum. That isn't here but some smart Burners have let you know where to go from here.

Hopefully your post will prevent others from repeating your mistake.
In your wildest dreams you can not imagine the marvelous SURPRISES that await YOU.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Lonesomebri » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:52 pm

Yes, you got ripped off, the camp ripped all of us off with the moop for profit scheme, etc. But you can be a Burner now and burn it down by telling us how this corruption happenes. What is the process that led to this story? It would be great if you added to this discussion further by filling in some details, as articulated by Papa Bear-
Papa Bear wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:07 am
...Having been through one, though, you seem uniquely qualified to give us some insight about how some of these outfits find their "customers", and maybe help prevent other virgins from getting sucked in by them in the future.

In particular:

1. How did you first hear about Burning Man?
2. Once you did, how did you go about learning more about the event, and preparing to go?
3. What made you decide you needed to join a camp, rather than camp on your own?
4. How did you hear about PlayaSkool?
5. What convinced you that joining them was the way to go, vs. some other approach? What alternatives did you look into?
6. How, if at all, did PlayaSkool educate you about Burning Man culture before the event?
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:03 pm

i would kick his ass in the Thunder Dome next year.

get your money’s worth.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by FlyingMonkey » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:10 pm

Simon of the Playa wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:03 pm
i would kick his ass in the Thunder Dome next year.

get your money’s worth.
Unfortunately the way things are going that will be Pay-Per-View only.

- Hi Simon :D
In your wildest dreams you can not imagine the marvelous SURPRISES that await YOU.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Lightspeed » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:55 pm

Just want to chime in on this nonsense coming from those claiming to "need" these PnP camps because they live far away:

I went to Burning Man for the first time in 2018 and I live in Hawai'i, which is in the middle of the god damn Pacific Ocean. I spent years fantasizing, and researching, and saving up money. I bought and brought everything I needed; a killer monkey hut, a tent, tables, coolers, food, a bike I even had a generator and fucking AC. I spent A LOT of money on gear, which I also had to work really hard for. I made plans, gathered up my gear, packed it all in a cargo trailer. I set it up myself

It appears that those who camped with this "Playa Skool" spent perhaps thousands of dollars on their Burn. If this group from Italy (and others) had done some research, pooled their cash and resources together, and made an effort to "properly" Burn, they could have made their own fucking KILLER camp! I'm talking ShiftPod2 (which could sleep 5+), a giant monkey hut with bells and whistles (mine used Aluminet, had a nice set of LED string lights, and a kick-ass playa-created LED camp beacon), a couple of nice coolers filled with food, and all those other little extras needed for survival. They could have stuffed it all in a cargo trailer, hopped in a rented van together, and Burned righteously hard. I can even imagine there being enough money left over to rent a storage unit for the year so they could return in 2019 and do it all over again for a fraction of the cost (which is what I'm doing.

Getting to Burning Man is very hard, and it can be expensive. But it's not like you folks that pay PnP camps aren't already spending a bunch of money anyway; you simply do not want to do any of the work.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by ItalyPlaya » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:55 pm

Papa Bear wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:07 am

In particular:

1. How did you first hear about Burning Man?
2. Once you did, how did you go about learning more about the event, and preparing to go?
3. What made you decide you needed to join a camp, rather than camp on your own?
4. How did you hear about PlayaSkool?
5. What convinced you that joining them was the way to go, vs. some other approach? What alternatives did you look into?
6. How, if at all, did PlayaSkool educate you about Burning Man culture before the event?
Here some answers which I missed:
1. A friend and the internet
2. Did read a lot and prepared fully, just not not enough about the camp
3. Better to have infrastructure, we did not want to have RV. Shade for tents is good and flying in from far makes things difficult to buy for one time
4. Friend of Friend
5. It was easy - Email sent to them asking if we can join, invite received, money paid. We wanted to be together, seemed like a good way to start BM experience and see how it is to learn for next years. No interview, no personal interaction like other camps do.
6. Not at all. Some small advise before that you should read read read, but almost no education. I hear they did this years ago but not at all in 2018. Very sad because they only wanted to fill camp and did not care about the type of people

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by maladroit » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:59 pm

ItalyPlaya wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:55 pm
5. It was easy - Email sent to them asking if we can join, invite received, money paid. We wanted to be together, seemed like a good way to start BM experience and see how it is to learn for next years. No interview, no personal interaction like other camps do.
Yeah, that's about the level of commercialism we expected.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:03 am

This is working out nicely. Thanks to Papa Bear for asking the questions and ItalyPlaya for answering them. Does the camp placement questionnaire ask about dues? Presumably the BORG knows every camp's Outside Services activity. Now if someone could make a list of dues by camp :)
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:33 am

some seeing eye wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:03 am
This is working out nicely. Thanks to Papa Bear for asking the questions and ItalyPlaya for answering them. Does the camp placement questionnaire ask about dues? Presumably the BORG knows every camp's Outside Services activity. Now if someone could make a list of dues by camp :)
Here Playaskool's 2018 Invite pdf which lists all their outrageous dues.
https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y

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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 am

“Here Playaskool's 2018 Invite pdf which lists all their outrageous dues.”


https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y


oh my...
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Canoe » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:01 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 am
“Here Playaskool's 2018 Invite pdf which lists all their outrageous dues.”
https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y
oh my...
wow

Not their area, but I wonder what Lawyers For ___ would think of it.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by lucky420 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:34 am

“Donations”
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Molotov » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:29 am

All through the description of amenities and services provided, the form keeps repeating "We are not a plug and play camp" . If this isn't a PnP, I would like to see what is.

Of particular interest is the surcharge/donation for people bringing their own RV's to provide their own housing.

I guess the difference in getting screwed depends on whether you are on the giving or receiving end.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:42 am

yes, 8500$ to park YOUR RV on federal land for a week does seem a bit steep.

i hope they tipped the valets.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by stephaniegrafton » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:26 am

Simon of the Playa wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:42 am
yes, 8500$ to park YOUR RV on federal land for a week does seem a bit steep.

i hope they tipped the valets.
I heard of people who inquired with Playaskool 4 weeks before the burn if they have contacts to RV companies and can join, and the camp lead offered them an RV for 4 people for $ 50,000. Milking it as he does!

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:34 am

Thanks for posting that link :D They seem to have fundage enough to hire a lawyer to write a contract.

In a quick read, Playaskool is a clearly a member of the BRCCP.

If you bring your own tent, you pay $500? for food, water and showers. But if you bring your own RV you pay $15,000 for the same food, water and shower (plus RV pumping and a lot of power.) From each according to their abilities and to each according to their needs sounds Marxist!

The MOOP fee was inelegantly executed, I'll grant that. Their idea for needing one is a mistake of their own making for soliciting random virgins, rather than having a camp that knows each other IRL and cleans up after themselves.

So I guess they are a communist plug and play with faltering bureaucracy and insufficiently managed masses.

If their camp leader is living here, I'd be worried though.

Image
Last edited by some seeing eye on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Simon of the Playa
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:39 am

fools and their money are soon parted.


with that said, shady is as shady does, and they charge a hefty “donation fee” for any shade they provide...


if anything “illegal” or fraudulent was done i’m sure it will be brought forward, and punished.


if not, at least this shall be a teaching moment for the community.

“caveat emptor”.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Lonesomebri » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:15 am

Don't blame the BRCCP for what the BMorg has brought.... Unless, well, that's what you're good at and it takes the heat off... As for my camp run under the flag of the BRCCP, there were no dues or fees... See, even here opposing this crap, and we have the respectable "resistance" choosing its target based on powerlessness and lack of influence. As camp lead I brought 3 extra bikes to lend out. I'm not in it to make money. Something so simple to see....
I'm starting to see I'm Burning wrong.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Jackass » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:31 am

The "donations" are even steeper than previously imagined. They claim to have no paid workers, but I wonder how much of these "donations" (because they won't outright call them fees) end up in the pockets of the fakulty?

All of these for profit shit-bags need to be wiped from the playa in one fell swoop, ban this shit and evict immediately when found operating... These for profit "burners" have no business making a business of this event. These people don't "get it" and never will. Just like in real life they're lazy douche bags that pay people to do everything for them. If I coughed up 15,000 for a week of the playa skool experience, you can bet your ass that I would leave them all of my trash and discards to deal with. That's what a paying customer expects, service. Fuck them.

It's just yet another example of how Plug n Plays choose to and do run amuk.
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Token » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:12 am

Well, they did post all their names in the PDF so wouldn’t be that hard to figure out who is making a living off of the sheeple.

Edit: Let me help:
Headmaster​ ​Janus​ ​–​ ​Jon​ ​La​ ​Grace jon@playaskool.com
+52​ ​1​ ​443​ ​504​ ​8682

Student​ ​Body​ ​President​ ​​ ​–​ ​Michael​ ​Henderson Michaelhenderson2001@hotmail.com
+44​ ​7583​ ​578435

Dean​ ​of​ ​Boom​ ​​ ​–​ ​Mike​ ​“Dexx”​ ​Negron dexxdexx@gmail.com
+1​ ​(860)​ ​302-0194

Kenny​ ​Ferron
Carmelo​ ​Fiannaca
Sole​ ​Asensio-Abraham
Karen​ ​El​ ​Khazen
Kaz​ ​Qamruddin
Sasha​ ​Jensen
Ken​ ​Rehor
Whitney​ ​Baker

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:48 am

1569F7BD-19C0-42F6-BB07-003C5A1F110C.jpeg
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Bless » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:15 am

People need to quit with the victim-shaming, Jesus fucking Christ.

If someone gets a predatory mortgage and fails to read the fine print, do we jump down their throat? Do we blame ignorant or uneducated people for being duped by corporations? No, we sue the fuck out of the lender for false advertising and corporate fraud. So chill the fuck out, everybody.

In the real world, when someone is the victim of a predatory contract, there are legal avenues available to them as well as government assistance in the form of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Better Business Bureau, Federal Trade Commission, etc.

Now, I'm not saying that Placement must (or can) make this right financially. It could be that the victims in this case have no avenue toward restitution. But, to blame the victims for being insufficiently burnery is stupid.

If Bmorg allows plug-n-plays to operate, you can't blame campers for being enticed to them. That's like blaming poor people for taking out payday loans.

Many of these plug-n-play camps are predatory. We need to stop blaming the victim.
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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by Altahoe » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:29 am

I am curious if PlayaSkool will respond to this criticism. I came upon one of their FB posts from October regarding in-house questions about deposits and moop. I commented, that they were being crushed on eplaya.com over this topic and waited for their reply. One minute later their response was to delete my comment. Big business and profit theme camps. How disappointing.

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Re: Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from peopl

Post by lucky420 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:30 am

Bless wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:15 am
People need to quit with the victim-shaming, Jesus fucking Christ.

If someone gets a predatory mortgage and fails to read the fine print, do we jump down their throat? Do we blame ignorant or uneducated people for being duped by corporations? No, we sue the fuck out of the lender for false advertising and corporate fraud. So chill the fuck out, everybody.

In the real world, when someone is the victim of a predatory contract, there are legal avenues available to them as well as government assistance in the form of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, Better Business Bureau, Federal Trade Commission, etc.

Now, I'm not saying that Placement must (or can) make this right financially. It could be that the victims in this case have no avenue toward restitution. But, to blame the victims for being insufficiently burnery is stupid.

If Bmorg allows plug-n-plays to operate, you can't blame campers for being enticed to them. That's like blaming poor people for taking out payday loans.

Many of these plug-n-play camps are predatory. We need to stop blaming the victim.
Agreed
Oh my god, it's HUGE!

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