Plug&Play Camp PlayaSkool - Camp Probably intentionally left Moop to keep deposit and legally steal money from people

[stephaniegrafton]

I am curious if PlayaSkool will respond to this criticism. I came upon one of their FB posts from October regarding in-house questions about deposits and moop. I commented, that they were being crushed on eplaya.com over this topic and waited for their reply. One minute later their response was to delete my comment. Big business and profit theme camps. How disappointing.

All that this Jon who was named before does is sit back, wait for new stupid virgins pop up and milk them. Placement seems to just accept their scam which obviously has been going on for years.
All the other people in the lead named before should be ashamed to be connected to this skam camp. Love the new logo by the way.

[FlyingMonkey]

“Here Playaskool's 2018 Invite pdf which lists all their outrageous dues.”
https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y
oh my...

wow

Not their area, but I wonder what Lawyers For ___ would think of it.

I went to the link and got nothing. Did it get taken down?

[FlyingMonkey]

People need to quit with the victim-shaming, Jesus fucking Christ.

If Bmorg allows plug-n-plays to operate, you can't blame campers for being enticed to them. That's like blaming poor people for taking out payday loans.

Many of these plug-n-play camps are predatory. We need to stop blaming the victim.

So they're just victims and not part of the problem?(Not even a little?)

Yeah, rich people who have the means to travel around the world & spend thousands and thousands of dollars on an extravagant Instagram moment are just like people who take out payday loans (often because they have little choice to make ends meet). Poor victims didn't have time to learn about the origin, ethos & guiding principals of one of the most widely known events on Earth.

I see it now.

I totally agree that the greater problem is that BMORG allows PnP in the first place.

[Token]

[
https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y

I went to the link and got nothing. Did it get taken down?

I can open it.

[hooker]

Year after year we hear about plug and play camps that fuck things over. They leave behind couches, they leave a pile of trash, they exclude everyone not paying, they foster spectators, and on and on. So why exactly do we need these camps? Is the org that hard up for money? Do they really think fostering this type of camp helps spread the ethos of burning man when they clearly just promote vacations for the well to do who don't really want to participate? Can anyone give me a good reason not to simply ban plug and play camps?

[Token]

[some seeing eye]

I have to complement ItalyPlaya and stephaniegrafton for sticking with ePlaya through all the bullying. Sometimes people do bullying online as a characture of their real identity. There is also a phrase "burner-y than thou." It kicks in hard year 2-3, but after 5 less so.

I hope the former PlayaSkool students start their own independent projects. We hope you stick with the wackiness that is ePlaya and use our deep well of useful and useless experience learned dusty as you see fit.

Don't know if you are aware, but there is a detailed "Burning Man Census" each year. And the discussions we have with burners here on ePlaya add detail to that. If you are considering year 2, you might read through the census to see if it rings true to your experience. I always recommend virgin burners and years after connect in real life with their regional, face to face. It's much more interesting than online.

(in the case of the skater, the identity of which I did not know, after a lot of "you don't understand prepared" bullying, I said: "here are the playa conditions with links to the science, as an athlete, talk to your physician and coach.")

(We have single-issue ePlayans too. That's fine. For instance Couch Bob was a believer in self-reliance. Figjam is Mr DIY.)

[Simon of the Playa]

WHAT WOULD BOB DO?

6BD1F7A6-CC8C-426A-B803-055050A6A29D.jpeg (25.28 KiB) Viewed 1008 times

[FlyingMonkey]

WHAT WOULD BOB DO?


6BD1F7A6-CC8C-426A-B803-055050A6A29D.jpeg

Indeed.

[some seeing eye]

I'm but a newbe as of 1999, but I understand Couch Bob was a DPW builder who built a center camp that finally did not blow down. He documented his experiences at archived http://worldpowersystems.com/ARCHIVE/BM ... uetarp.htm. I exchanged some ePlaya PM with him, but he passed away before I could meet him IRL. Some ePlayans like the Capt carry on in his spirit of expecting self reliance. More Couch Bob experiences? We are listening,

I haven't tried, but I think all Mr Couch Bob's eplaya posts are still there.

[Altahoe]

Mario, in case you're curious.....there's a fire-storm going on at Burning Man Theme Camp Organizers page over this thread.

[FlyingMonkey]

[
https://gofile.io/?c=YyCL6y

I went to the link and got nothing. Did it get taken down?

I can open it.

I was finally able to read it. Holy Fucking Shit.
It's far worse than I ever imagined.

Mario, you seem like a nice guy. Come camp with me this year. I will only charge $1000 and I will clean up after you.(no I wont)

You so got scammed but you are only a victim of your decision to read that 17 page Playaskool prospectus and not the Survival Guide. I'm sure you learned from it but to be honest your OP was more about getting your $250 deposit back and not about fixing a problem that affects the rest of us caused by people like you that support PnPs.

I know, I'm a really, really, really mean guy for saying this and some people will pat you on the head and say "Its Ok you're a victim of predators". The real victims are all the other burners doing it right.

I don't hold any animosity against you. If you ever wander in to my no frills camp I'll be the first one to gift you a Homebrew.

You see, Burning Man was and to some extent still is a very special event unlike anything else. Now that you have been there you understand that it can change peoples lives. So PLEASE try to understand ME when I get so upset about Plug-n-Play camps and the corrosive effect they are having. Burning Man gets a little less Burny every year. That saddens me. I personally feel (and others will disagree) that PnPs are one of the largest contributing factors to this entropy.

Just curious, I have to admit that I have a possibly inaccurate opinion of PnP enablers. Tell us about how you gifted or volunteered outside of your camp. How did you participate? How did you contribute to the awesomeness? I'd love to be able to change my opinion.

It's not fair if I don't do the same so here goes. I camp with a medium sized village that doesn't charge for anything. I'm a home brewer so I always make several kegs of beer to gift. I provide a shade structure thats in our public space and I spend a lot of time picking up moop as I explore. I didn't go last year but I usually try to volunteer with LNT or perimeter for projects whenever I can. I'd love to volunteer with the Lamp Lighters but admittedly have not done that yet. In 2017 I helped dip the burlap for the man in paraffin. That was a hoot & I met some terrific people. I also never turn down an opportunity to dress up and dance my ass off and otherwise act like a fool. Life is short.......

Sorry for being a stickler about the "Principals" but I think they matter.

Get past this & learn from it. Be a Burner & not someone who went to Burning Man.

See you in the Dust.

[FlyingMonkey]

Mario, in case you're curious.....there's a fire-storm going on at Burning Man Theme Camp Organizers page over this thread.

Amen.

[Simon of the Playa]

I can open it.

I was finally able to read it. Holy Fucking Shit.
It's far worse than I ever imagined.

Mario, you seem like a nice guy. Come camp with me this year. I will only charge $1000 and I will clean up after you.(no I wont)

You so got scammed but you are only a victim of your decision to read that 17 page Playaskool prospectus and not the Survival Guide. I'm sure you learned from it but to be honest your OP was more about getting your $250 deposit back and not about fixing a problem that affects the rest of us caused by people like you that support PnPs.

I know, I'm a really, really, really mean guy for saying this and some people will pat you on the head and say "Its Ok you're a victim of predators". The real victims are all the other burners doing it right.

I don't hold any animosity against you. If you ever wander in to my no frills camp I'll be the first one to gift you a Homebrew.

You see, Burning Man was and to some extent still is a very special event unlike anything else. Now that you have been there you understand that it can change peoples lives. So PLEASE try to understand ME when I get so upset about Plug-n-Play camps and the corrosive effect they are having. Burning Man gets a little less Burny every year. That saddens me. I personally feel (and others will disagree) that PnPs are one of the largest contributing factors to this entropy.

Just curious, I have to admit that I have a possibly inaccurate opinion of PnP enablers. Tell us about how you gifted or volunteered outside of your camp. How did you participate? How did you contribute to the awesomeness? I'd love to be able to change my opinion.

It's not fair if I don't do the same so here goes. I camp with a medium sized village that doesn't charge for anything. I'm a home brewer so I always make several kegs of beer to gift. I provide a shade structure thats in our public space and I spend a lot of time picking up moop as I explore. I didn't go last year but I usually try to volunteer with LNT or perimeter for projects whenever I can. I'd love to volunteer with the Lamp Lighters but admittedly have not done that yet. In 2017 I helped dip the burlap for the man in paraffin. That was a hoot & I met some terrific people. I also never turn down an opportunity to dress up and dance my ass off and otherwise act like a fool. Life is short.......

Sorry for being a stickler about the "Principals" but I think they matter.

Get past this & learn from it. Be a Burner & not someone who went to Burning Man.

See you in the Dust.

+1000

[JohnnyA]

From Reddit, Placement's response to someone (not me) that brought this to their attention ...

Hi there Matt,

Thank you so much for writing in about your concerns. We are aware of the dispute going on between this camper at PlayaSkool and the camp.

As you've probably seen on the ePlaya thread you shared and Theme Camp Organizers thread in the last 24 hours, there are many opinions on the practices of deposits and setting expectations with campers. At the Theme Camp Symposium event last year there was a fair bit of talk of Strike Deposits from camps of all financial backgrounds. This is a fairly new thing in the community and there isn't a clear cultural answer yet as to whether it's okay or not okay. That's different than say, our very clear policy on camps not working with concierge or travel companies.

I want to bring up the greater context of camp practices and how this all fits into the bigger picture of Black Rock City Cultural Direction Setting. Some camp behaviors are very clearly not in line with our Principles (e.g. see above with concierge companies and directly selling or commodifying our culture). Some are in a grey area that has yet to be clearly defined. The BRC Cultural Direction Setting survey had nearly 5,000 responses, and on one of the questions we asked, "Should a camp's finances be transparent to all of its campers?" While the answer was majority yes, the qualitative answers were also majority yes to transparency, but that should be up to the camps to do themselves; the organization should not regulate or get involved, and camps should sort this out themselves.

This reveals the complex cultural deliberation that is going on right now and the whole point of why we're asking the community very seriously what they think. This is why we’re reading and analyzing what was said so carefully. The next step in the BRC Cultural Direction Setting project is coming out with a vision of where BRC is going in 5-10 years and after that, addressing the specific practices we want to see shift in the community to support that future vision. As such, it's not the place of anyone at the organization at this moment to make a decision on whether PlayaSkool's LNT deposits are culturally right or wrong. We're engaging in an important process to answer those really tough questions and I believe strongly we can't shortchange that process. You can see that in the debate going on the online threads about this right now - there are a lot of opinions, and not everyone agrees.

This cultural territory requires very thoughtful action and we have to address the big picture that is currently not clearly defined. And parts of it may intentionally never be defined, so the organization remains a permission engine for camps and the culture.

And all that being said, Theme Camps (and all camps) are independent entities from Burning Man Project. We do not get involved in the internal operations, financial structures, or financial dealings of any camp. While there’s a legal reality, it's actually more important than that. We believe in the autonomy of camps. In this case, a camp tried something new, and I think it's fair to say there were mixed results and since it was made public, a lot of upset community members and a healthy debate between camp leaders around this practice. As camps and campers are autonomous, it's up to the campers to express concerns with how the camp is being operated to the camp leaders. It's up to the campers to push back on any agreement they are asked to make if they don't feel it is culturally appropriate. The organization is still figuring out our place in the cultural end of this, and we cannot get involved in the financial or internal camp end of this.

You are welcome to share this email with others.

All my best, Trippi Longstocking

[JohnnyA]

I am disappointed, but not surprised, that Trippi Longstocking chose to focus on Mario's original complaint about the LNT deposit, and to ignore what seems to be PlayaSkool's clear practice of commodifying Burning Man into a turnkey experience, and their failing to provide any significant (or any at all?) acculturation to their "paying-guest" customers newbies.

[Jackass]

Yeah, the bigger issue at hand here is that plug n play camps are cashing in on and selling burning man, not that some campers are getting duped out of a moop deposit... That is so weak.

Talk about the elephant in the room.

[Ano]

I feel like that internal document will get taken down shortly. I encourage folks to take a look while you can, perhaps make a copy for your own PC.

That's eye-opening, depressing, and all sorts of infuriating to me.... the fact that this kind of stuff happens and it isn't gonna stop.

[Ratty]

Ano, that is a carefully written letter. Nothing more. It's not a random opinion from placement. Why would anyone want to hide it? Last year they put a moratorium on outside service providers. No new ones were allowed. That is a step in the right direction. This year we've been informed not to contract anything until more decisions are made. This is all good news. Sure, I would like everyone to lug all of their gear themselves. I prefer a no-frills burn. To get that they, (whoever they are), would need RULES. Yuck. Burners hate rules.

What do burners love? Some of them love getting their RV pumped out and water delivered for their shower. Arranging for a bike to be on the playa for them with a mechanic to adjust it and repair it. Some prefer the equivalent of a cheap hotel and room service. You can cut all the services and it wouldn't change anything in our camp.

[stephaniegrafton]

I feel like that internal document will get taken down shortly. I encourage folks to take a look while you can, perhaps make a copy for your own PC.

That's eye-opening, depressing, and all sorts of infuriating to me.... the fact that this kind of stuff happens and it isn't gonna stop.

Received a link with the 2017 and 2018 invites. This shows the dues and "inflation" of over 20-50% in costs for tenting/RV within 1 year. Speaking of greed.

https://gofile.io/?c=Z915bp

[Ano]

Ano, that is a carefully written letter. Nothing more. It's not a random opinion from placement. Why would anyone want to hide it? Last year they put a moratorium on outside service providers. No new ones were allowed. That is a step in the right direction. This year we've been informed not to contract anything until more decisions are made. This is all good news. Sure, I would like everyone to lug all of their gear themselves. I prefer a no-frills burn. To get that they, (whoever they are), would need RULES. Yuck. Burners hate rules.

What do burners love? Some of them love getting their RV pumped out and water delivered for their shower. Arranging for a bike to be on the playa for them with a mechanic to adjust it and repair it. Some prefer the equivalent of a cheap hotel and room service. You can cut all the services and it wouldn't change anything in our camp.

I don't mean that. I mean the internal playaskool documents that show their confidentiality agreement, among other things.

[amalin]

2018 was the year that it became very obvious that the scalpers are taking on big game - and Playaskool was just beyond anything I could believe. The crammed knock off shiftpods - the kid doing the 24 hour trouble shooting who broke his wrist and had a hard time husseling a ride for medical attention.... and voila - the unveiling of the Jaguar. Yeah the campers bankrolled it. I did my homework - I checked I researched I talked to various camps honchos like the Hugzilla dude - he made no bones about it he wanted a big sound system art car for stealing the show at partees.... However I too did get drawn in by another con artist - madame One Tribe from Canada. She had a great rap - great communication - until I arrived on playa. My early arrival had already been used by her sister. The people setting up the teepes were mostly from Madame's inner circle very committed to see the good and only the good lest they loose their gig. The turn over in these camps is humongous - every year there are new fish to fry - the fishing happens on FB forums (which have been largely taken over by commercial non burners like the ridesharing and ticket groups which I was a moderator in and the group admin did not have the settings right to prevent a take over) .... yeah man it is a zoo out there.....

[gaminwench]

amalin, this is fascinating. and disturbing. and infuriating. and WTF???

[Simon of the Playa]

the old gods of the desert are angry.




expect punishment in the form of the worst dust storm.


ever.


so it is posted, so let it be done.

[ItalyPlaya]

Mario, in case you're curious.....there's a fire-storm going on at Burning Man Theme Camp Organizers page over this thread.

Thank you. Do you have link to this organizers page forum? Can not find it and am very curious

[Papa Bear]

Go get'em Papa Bear and Placement team!

So, I just noticed this reply. Just to avoid any confusion, I'd like to clarify that I am not the "Papa Bear" who is part of placement.

There are a few "Papa Bears" out there these days, I'm just the one that's a loudmouth on the internet.

[Altahoe]

Not Placement Papa Bear? Ok, no problem. The page I was referring is on FaceBook "Burning Man Theme Camp Organizers". You need permission to join, but I'll tag a few Placers that are my FB friends. I'd love get hear their input.

[Off White]

I dunno, solution seems simple, though it's always possible it's just me that's simple. Any plug&play (based on names of actual operators, not just camp names) that doesn't achieve green status on a moop report can never come back. Period. Perusing the moop map makes it clear this issue is not just a problem with PlayaSkool, any number of P&P camps are left messy.

Seems like they have sufficient financial incentive and employed staff so there is no reason they should leave a dirty site. If they want to have some kind of financial stick to compel their campers to clean up after themselves, whatever.

If the p&p folks are anxious that dastardly antifa burners will trash their sites after they leave just to get them banned, they can pay a fee to physically check out with an inspection team and get cleared.

[Alcibiades]

Nothing will ever change regarding PnP's. They are here to stay. Period. Burning Man has evolved, and has succumb to heavy duty money. If you're too blind to be unable to grasp what kind of behind the scenes activity goes down then so be it. All of these proposed solutions and brainstorming to try and abolish PnP's is absolutely pointless. At this point, its now a matter of keeping some sort of balance between PnP's and "regular" camps...thats it.

It's an absolute shame that scumbag camps like PlayASkool make such strong returns year after year for their camp. They are lowlifes, but no dummies. Mike Henderson works in Finance in the UK, Sasha Jensen works with Wall Street and VC.. Janus is a douchebag but a bit of a bozo. The laughable thing about their Information booklet is that its littered with language stating that they are NOT PnP, which is a total farce.

This is not a free-ride Plug & Play camp. We expect you to come, participate, build, clean- up, breakdown, help and SHARE.

Lastly...we will be expecting EVERYONE to volunteer for 2 x 2.5 hour shifts. Play)A(Skool cannot
run itself. If you don’t want to lift a finger, there are camps that charge $15,000+ per person for
the pleasure. We will need your help before, during and after the week and we will be
contacting you to ask where/how you can VOLUNTEER.

... in reality the camp is already setup before majority of the members arrive. Nothing to build really..nothing to cook..and most people ride off into the Sunset on Sunday night and then their staff begin breakdown. They mention that there are camps that charge 15k per person, but if you total up all of the costs they want, its essentially the same. Camp fee of $500 + RV PARKING SPOT up to $8.5k + Actual RV + Supplies. At least the 15k PnPs cover transport, equipment/bikes, RV... this is just fucking idiocy here... 6-8k for a fucking spot to park your RV. Yet clueless assholes with money to spend and NO concept of the event will happily pay this...because they don't know anybetter..

They act as if they always need to be in the org's good graces and make sure members know that they are working hard with placement to find the best place possible..which is a load of shit. They always get put in their same spot on 10 near Kazbah [Speaking of Kazbah their moop map area looks like 2 volcanos dumped red hot magma all over their ENTIRE camp radius...but guess what..that phallus will be planted in the same spot next year], RH, and etc. It's all one giant facade, one which has Janus and crew pulling their dusty puds and laughing to the bank..while guys like Mario leave BM with a "wtf" experience.. sadly there will be another 5-6 Mario's in line waiting to apply to PlayaSkool this year..and the same regurgitated bullshit will ensue.

This is what the event has become, and it wont ever change. It's an absolute travesty how some of these big PnP camps are making heavy ROI, and then greasing the right palms before heading back to reality, but guess what..it wont ever change. For every Lovin Oven camp, theres 3 Humano the Tribes..

[Traveller in Time]

Would it be possible to include a legal restricion on payed work while in BRC on the tickets ?

Taking Decommodification as a law for citizens.

Thinking about the _also_ real life employees of the pnp organisers.